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Old November 23rd, 2009, 05:06 PM   #1581
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If Siemens wins there is going to be a VELARO PL : ) Quite similar to the Russian version:

Poland: Velaro PL – the cheapest from the family
There is a very interesting information for passengers travelling by railways in Poland. In a tender for train-sets for PKP Intercity, Siemens will offer a variant of Velaro, which is named Velaro PL. (...)
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 05:39 PM   #1582
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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Not very expensive by any standard, I think. That said, where did the 800km come from? We have all been telling each others for ages that the railway line between M and SP is about 650km. That's also the information you find on open sources such as wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow%...rsburg_Railway
You are right, sorry, railway is the shortest distance and it is 650 km
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Finally, one nasty question: when you say 54 euro, does this mean that I - a Dane - can buy it for 54 euro? I ask because last time I was in Petersburg I consistently had to pay five times more than the locals. The Hermitage, the Marinskij Theatre... Does at least RZD not practice such discrimination?
RZD is a commercial company, not a museum, it doesn't get money from state budget and therefore shouldn't charge extra...
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 09:25 PM   #1583
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If Siemens wins there is going to be a VELARO PL : ) Quite similar to the Russian version:

[…]
Don't think so, because Russia doesn't use the UIC loading gauge. It would be more similar to Velaro E.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 06:38 AM   #1584
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Originally Posted by void0 View Post
[]http://s43.radikal.ru/i099/0811/17/cfb8863906c7.jpg[/IMG]
Regular high speed connection between Moscow and St.Peterburg will start at December, 18.
Ticket price for 800km ride will start from 2406 rubles or 54 euro. Not very expensive by European standards I think...
Here is article in Russian http://metroblog.ru/post/2658/
Very cheap inded, Madrid-Zaragoza (~ 315kms by road, ~1h15m travel on train) costs 52.90 on tourist class (cheaper one) on AVE train.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 01:04 PM   #1585
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Very cheap inded, Madrid-Zaragoza (~ 315kms by road, ~1h15m travel on train) costs 52.90 on tourist class (cheaper one) on AVE train.
Yes, but don't forget that the wage level in Spain is higher than in Russia!
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Old November 24th, 2009, 01:30 PM   #1586
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Don't think so, because Russia doesn't use the UIC loading gauge. It would be more similar to Velaro E.
of course except from the gauge width. Siemens says that technically and in terms of features they will be similar. No graphics yet unfortunately.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 09:02 PM   #1587
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Very cheap inded, Madrid-Zaragoza (~ 315kms by road, ~1h15m travel on train) costs 52.90 on tourist class (cheaper one) on AVE train.
Hum... I revert my position. I always buy TGV tickets, literally, walking in from the street. THAT SAID: I just did a little search on the TGV Voyages site. If I book a 2nd class ticked Paris-Bordeaux (almost identically the same distance as Moscow-Peterburg) a couple of months in advance then I pay 19 Euros. (First class would make it 10 Euros more expensive) The trip takes 3 hours 5 minutes.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 09:35 PM   #1588
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Yes, but don't forget that the wage level in Spain is higher than in Russia!
Well, i don't see high speed trains for standard use of mid class (at least i don't go to pay twice the price of the bus from Madrid to Vitoria).
Btw Cordoba-Zaragoza (~700 km by road) is 93.90 Euro 2h45m of train.
If you search for the same ticket 1 month before travel on it you can get it for 56 euro.
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If you want compatibility with standards and security, ¿why do you recomend firefox and not Opera?

The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts. Gene Spafford.
I am Basque, not Russian, the "Siberia" thing is a joke.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 09:40 PM   #1589
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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Hum... I revert my position. I always buy TGV tickets, literally, walking in from the street. THAT SAID: I just did a little search on the TGV Voyages site. If I book a 2nd class ticked Paris-Bordeaux (almost identically the same distance as Moscow-Peterburg) a couple of months in advance then I pay 19 Euros. (First class would make it 10 Euros more expensive) The trip takes 3 hours 5 minutes.
TGV Voyages tickets are amazing i forgot about those
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The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts. Gene Spafford.
I am Basque, not Russian, the "Siberia" thing is a joke.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 10:35 AM   #1590
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Not "amazing", just a result of political pressures. When the TGV concept was born (the opening of Paris-Lyon) it was billed as a replacement for planes - unlike, I may add, the German ICEs which were and are seen by the public as an improvement and extension of an existing railway architecture. HOWEVER, President Mitterand's Socialist/Communist government made it clear that tickets could, at most, cost 20-30% more than on existing trains.

This is one reason why the interior of a TGV train looks so "cheap". They had to save where they could and so went for a concept of 100% emphasis on speed, 0% emphasis on comfort. In Germany they have done pretty much the opposite. In Spain, RENFE combines high speed with high comfort, but as a result tickets cost almost as much as air fares - i.e. roughly twice as much as conventional train tickes.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 05:33 PM   #1591
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Still it's considered to be very expensive here. Cheapest plane cost from 1250 rubles, twice cheaper. Average economic class cost 1800-2300. A train with reserved seats cost 700-1000 rubles. It will be free if you don't pay for suburban trains, but it will take over 14 hours. Prices will be low only on a first week of service. Morning train cost 2273 rubles, but will cost almost 2700 from december 26. That's almost $100, a lot.

But they plans to add few more trains by the mid 2010, so prices should go down a little bit. Once a fully new HSR is complete by 2015 prices should be way lower and journey time will be reduced to 2:30-2:45 at the beginning.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 01:08 AM   #1592
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of course except from the gauge width. Siemens says that technically and in terms of features they will be similar. No graphics yet unfortunately.
I did not mean the gauge width, but the loading gauge. The russian loading gauge is bigger than the UIC loading gauge.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 01:13 AM   #1593
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Well, i don't see high speed trains for standard use of mid class
[…]
Ok, I see it from a german point of view and here in Germany the usage of high speed trains is quite normal.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 01:17 AM   #1594
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Originally Posted by coth View Post
[…]
It will be free if you don't pay for suburban trains,
[…]
If you don't pay, everything is free all over the world.
But that is a bad attitude.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 11:00 AM   #1595
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Nov 23, 2009

RZD launches ticket sales for high-speed Sapsan train.

On 18 December 2009, the high-speed Sapsan train service will be launched on the Moscow – St Petersburg – Moscow route. Ticket sales for the Sapsan trains are now open. The first journeys will begin at 06:45 in the morning, when two trains will depart simultaneously from Moscow and St Petersburg. The journey time will be 3 hours 45 minutes. The trains are scheduled to depart from Moscow stations three times daily:

* at 06:45 (arriving at St Petersburg at 10:30);
* at 13:00 (arriving at St Petersburg at 17:15);
* at 19:00 (arriving at St Petersburg at 22:45).

Trains from St Petersburg to Moscow will follow an equivalent timetable (with departures from St Petersburg at 06:45, 13:00, and 19:00). Each train has 10 carriages, of which two are first class and eight are second class. Basic ticket prices are $185 for first class and $115 for second class. For the first week of the service, from 18 to 25 December, tickets will be sold at a discount.

The price of a first class ticket includes hot food (passengers will have a choice of meals), reading materials, internet access, travel packs (containing ear plugs, eye masks, and slippers) and children’s packs. Passengers in second class carriages can order hot food from the bistro carriage for additional payment, use the internet, order taxis, and watch and listen to video and audio programmes. In addition, while travelling on the Sapsan, passengers can purchase tickets for other trains.

[…]
http://eng.rzd.ru/isvp/public/rzdeng...3920&id=105421
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Old November 27th, 2009, 03:33 PM   #1596
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Russia: Participants in international Train to Copenhagen project cross East Siberia

A journey of environmental protection experts across Russia’s railway is continuing as part of the international Train to Copenhagen project organized by the International Union of Railways (UIC) and Russian Railways (RZD), and supported by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the WWF.

On 24-25 November, participants in the project travelled on the East Siberian Railway (a subsidiary of RZD). They visited a unique example of industrial architecture - the Circum-Baikal Railway – as well as the Listvyanka Limnological Institute. At the institute, a roundtable meeting was held involving Nina Abarinova, the Irkutsk Region’s deputy minister for natural resources and the environment, Viktor Kolbut, associate professor of the Irkutsk State University of Railway Engineering’s ecology department, and Lyudmila Kruglyakova, the head of the natural protection department of the East Siberian Railway. Representatives of RZD told guests about energy-saving technologies in rail transport and recycling of industrial waste.

Kruglyakova said: - In December this year on the East Siberian Railway, there are plans to launch a facility for treatment of industrial waste at the Tagul station. The goal of this complex is to conduct safe, environmentally friendly, high-temperature neutralization of old sleepers, liquid carbon-containing waste, and oiled rags. The maximum productivity of incineration will reach 500 kg/h (12 tons/day). The network has already spent more than USD 2.9m on this project.

Participants in the briefing said that all environmental risks facing the Irkutsk Region will be reported in a "climate" message, and sent to the UN conference to be held in Copenhagen in December this year.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 08:08 AM   #1597
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25 dead in Russia train derailment

25 dead in Russia train derailment

MOSCOW – An express train carrying hundreds of passengers from Moscow to St. Petersburg derailed late Friday, killing at least 25 people and injuring dozens of others, emergency officials said.

The state-run railway company said the derailment could have been the result of sabotage, fueling fears of terrorism.

The three rear cars of the Nevsky Express went off the tracks in the Tver province northwest of Moscow, the Emergency Situations Ministry said. Russian Railways said that four cars derailed and said 50 people were taken to two hospitals in the area.

Based on reports from officials at the scene, Emergency Situations Minister Sergei Shoigu said 25 people were killed, including two who died on the way to a hospital, and 87 injured. He said 32 people were unaccounted for, but that some or all of them may have survived.

State-run Vesti-24 television showed grainy footage hours after the derailment of a damaged car apparently lying on its side by the tracks. Its reporter called the wreck a "terrible catastrophe," saying he was looking at a "warped" carriage and could see other damaged cars as ambulances drove in and out of the cordoned-off site.

Reporting to a crisis center in Moscow, an officer at the scene said the death toll could rise because five or six bodies were believed trapped under a carraige.

Russian Railways said the cause was not yet determined but one possibility was sabotage, which could mean a bomb or another deliberate action to derail the train and cause casualties. Russian news agencies cited unidentified officials as saying a small crater was found at the site of the wreck, leading to speculation that it could have been caused by explosives.

A bomb blast on the same line in 2007 derailed a passenger train and injured 27 people. Two suspects have been arrested and authorities are searching for a former military officer they believe was behind the blast, but the motive was unclear. An explosion in a bathroom on a Moscow-St. Petersburg train in 1997 killed five people.

The route between Russia's capital and its No. 2 city is heavily traveled by tourists and business people.

The 14-car train was carrying 633 passengers and 20 railway personnel, the emergencies ministry said.

Terrorism has been a major concern in Russia since the devastating wars pitting Chechen rebels against government forces in the 1990s. Violence stemming from those conflicts has repeatedly spread to other parts of Russia in the past decade, including deadly bombings in the Moscow subway and attacks that brought two passenger jets down in 2004.

But Russia has also been plagued by deadly accidents resulting from its deteriorating Soviet-era infrastructure and from negligence.

The derailment occurred near the border between the Novgorod and Tver provinces, about 250 miles (400 kilometers) northwest of Moscow and 150 miles (250 kilometers) southeast of St. Petersburg, authorities said.

Russian news agencies reported that some injured passengers were being taken by train and bus to hospitals in the area and to St. Petersburg for medical attention.

State-run Vesti-24 broadcast live from a modern-looking national crisis response center center in Moscow late into the night as Emergency Situations Minister Sergei Shoigu and Health Minister Tatyana Golikova barked out orders and heard reports from officials at the scene and at nearby hospitals about casualties and the logistics of treating the injured.

President Dmitry Medvedev ordered authorities to help the victims and determine what caused the derailment, state media cited the Kremlin as saying.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_russia_train_derailed

oh no!!
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Old November 28th, 2009, 11:42 AM   #1598
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But Russia has also been plagued by deadly accidents resulting from its deteriorating Soviet-era infrastructure and from negligence.
You seem to have been censoring the text a bit, Webeagle12? The link you provided included the following text: "But Russia has also been plagued by deadly accidents resulting from its deteriorating Soviet-era infrastructure, a high incidence of alcohol abuse and from negligence." Did you think that was unfair to the Russian railways?
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Old November 28th, 2009, 01:17 PM   #1599
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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
You seem to have been censoring the text a bit, Webeagle12? The link you provided included the following text: "But Russia has also been plagued by deadly accidents resulting from its deteriorating Soviet-era infrastructure, a high incidence of alcohol abuse and from negligence." Did you think that was unfair to the Russian railways?
It wasn't there when I copied article from yahoo. Did you ever think that they keep updating/ changing article content as time goes by? Normal person would figure it out, especially on the top it's says how many minutes ago article was updated. Also if you read article now, that paragraph is removed. Any other questions you might have for me?

Last edited by webeagle12; November 28th, 2009 at 01:22 PM.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 01:24 PM   #1600
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No further questions, your honour. (Especially not to someone who's so snappy about being teased a bit... ) That said, in my experience yahoo, ap, reuters and all the others normally ad or delete entire paragraphs (hence also the extremely short paragraphs in their reporting) rather than stick text into existing sentences.
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