Melbourne Public Transport

[Morjo]

I thought I would start a thread to have a discussion about Melbourne's public transport system.

I was reading in the Manningham Leader newspaper about an idea to have a tram track going from Doncaster to the city via the Eastern Freeway. The tram track would go along the Freeway and would be elevated, and then would connect to Nicholson st, which will take the tram into the city.

Is an interesting idea. I wonder how fast the trams would go along the freeway while elevated.

[BleakCity]

Why do they want a tram - and why on Earth would they want to waste money elevating it?

Some of our local councils have lost the plot (I assume it's council throwing around the ideas).

[Morjo]

Originally Posted by ZH836301

Why do they want a tram - and why on Earth would they want to waste money elevating it?

Some of our local councils have lost the plot (I assume it's council throwing around the ideas).

Was just some resident who worked in transport planning or something similar.

[DataSlave]

Originally Posted by Morjo

I thought I would start a thread to have a discussion about Melbourne's public transport system.

I was reading in the Manningham Leader newspaper about an idea to have a tram track going from Doncaster to the city via the Eastern Freeway. The tram track would go along the Freeway and would be elevated, and then would connect to Nicholson st, which will take the tram into the city.

Is an interesting idea. I wonder how fast the trams would go along the freeway while elevated.

That route would be better as heavy rail as was originally proposed. If you want trams in Doncaster, the best route to start is Tram Road, Station Street (access to end of route 109, and Box Hill Station), then down to Burwood Highway to take over from Route 75 and head to Knox. Also, extend Route 24+48 to Doncaster. Then extend north to Templestowe, north-west to Heidelberg, and east to Donvale... am I rambling? I'll shut up before it becomes a rant.

[BleakCity]

Originally Posted by Morjo

Was just some resident who worked in transport planning or something similar.

Phew, that's OK then.

I can't see how they could come to that conclusion.

Hopefully the Eddington report comes back suggesting government builds the Doncaster railway rather than whimsical road tunnels.

[Morjo]

Originally Posted by DataSlave

That route would be better as heavy rail as was originally proposed. If you want trams in Doncaster, the best route to start is Tram Road, Station Street (access to end of route 109, and Box Hill Station), then down to Burwood Highway to take over from Route 75 and head to Knox. Also, extend Route 24+48 to Doncaster. Then extend north to Templestowe, north-west to Heidelberg, and east to Donvale... am I rambling? I'll shut up before it becomes a rant.

Having a tram route go through the Station st & Whitehorse Rd intersection would be a mess I reckon. It's already a mess just with cars and buses.

[Yardmaster]

A Doncaster rail proposal has been around for decades: if it went up the freeway, it would be much cheaper to provide pedestrian overbridges than to elevate it for several km. Then there's the problem of providing parking ...

Even if it did whip along the freeway easement, the whole benefit would pretty much be lost by running it down Nicholson street, although admittedly that's much better than Smith street or Brunswick Street.

Other proposed suburban railways from long ago:

• Sandringham to Black Rock/ Beaumauris
• Alphington up the Darebin Creek Valley (would have been great for Northlands & Latrobe uni )
• Huntingdale east to Monash etc.
• North Port to what is now Webb Dock

The first two appeared on an old Broadbents map of "Melbourne to & Fro" ; the last was mapped out in detail in a Victorian Railways newsletter (i.e. their former monthly magazine).

A fascimile of an old MMTB map I got off the internet (no doubt the link was on this site) shows proposed tram routes from sunahine to Footscray, Glenhuntly to Oakleigh, Malvern to Oakleigh, Camberwell to Heidelberg, Preston to Heidelberg, amongst various others.

And who hasn't heard of a rail link to the airport ?

[Morjo]

I would imagine if they decided to have heavy rail go down the middle of the eastern fwy, that they would need to take one lane from both sides to give the rail tracks more room?

[Yardmaster]

I thought they left enough room in the first place. can't see that heavy vs. light rail would make that much difference?

anyway, it won't happen ... and although I know they did it in Perth, i can't think of a less convenient place for a rail line than the middle of a freeway (from the point of view of the surrounding residents).

Cut & cover Doncaster Road!

[Arunava]

There's more than enough room for a couple of tracks + platforms for stations etc down the middle of the Eastern.

[cowface]

Originally Posted by ZH836301

Hopefully the Eddington report comes back suggesting government builds the Doncaster railway rather than whimsical road tunnels.

His study area doesn't cover Doncaster though.

[BleakCity]

Originally Posted by Yardmaster

anyway, it won't happen ... and although I know they did it in Perth, i can't think of a less convenient place for a rail line than the middle of a freeway (from the point of view of the surrounding residents).

Cut & cover Doncaster Road!

I've always held the same viewpoint - no barren freeway stations.

Originally Posted by cowface

His study area doesn't cover Doncaster though.

East West Link Needs Assessment

Yes, doesn't mention Doncaster specifically.

There is a mention of public transport - but the way that page reads, you'd think the road link was already recommended.

[DataSlave]

Originally Posted by Morjo

Having a tram route go through the Station st & Whitehorse Rd intersection would be a mess I reckon. It's already a mess just with cars and buses.

But it's the most logical route! There's nineteen bus routes teminating at Box Hill. By running trams from Box Hill down Station Street to Burwood Highway, taking over Route 75 and going all the way to Knox you take out route 732 completely! By going north to Doncaster you can cut back or modify the 291 (Box Hill -Doncaster -Heidelberg), 293 (Box Hill -Doncaster -Templestowe -Greensborough) and 295 (Box Hill -Doncaster -The Pines S.C.) as they all go straight up Tram Road before branching. And those are just the ones that really parallel the route.

How could a tram not be a good thing, once operational?

[DataSlave]

Originally Posted by ZH836301

Hopefully the Eddington report comes back suggesting government builds the Doncaster railway rather than whimsical road tunnels.

Originally Posted by cowface

His study area doesn't cover Doncaster though.

The report probably starts with 'Find the quickest way from point A to point B. Don't bother with the fact that traffic comes from point C (past A) and leaves route A-B partway along to head for point N.'

Of course that majority C-N traffic is what's stopping the minority A-B traffic from flowing, and a $10bn. tunnel won't change that while everything is forced into the same path... and if it IS a tollway, it WILL be forced onto the same path. That's what has stuffed Citylink. What's the bet that someone will suggest a tunnel from the Citylink/WestGate interchange to Citylink at Toorak Road next?

[BleakCity]

Probably - or based on VicRoads seamingly still influential freeway plan it will be a link from the Tullamarine Freeway to the Dingley Freeway, ala:



VicRoads won't be happy until they implement the entire thing - seems they're working on the F12 with this Deer Park to Eastern Freeway link.

I can see this Eddington report coming up with some pretty bad outcomes - the introductory material reads like the decision has already been made.

Here's all it says about Doncaster line:

Originally Posted by East West Link Needs Assessment Overview

The study will make recommendations to the
Government on a range of options, including light
rail services along the Eastern Freeway, new bus
services and interchanges, and other potential
solutions.

No railway, just light rail - 'get stuffed PT' says Eddington

He'll probably try to play this chestnut too, in an attempt to justify a road tunnel.

Originally Posted by East West Link Needs Assessment Overview

During the peak periods, congestion
creates delays for public transport users, and limits
the efficiency of the transport system,

[Yardmaster]

thankfully a lot of these are impossible without the acquisition hundreds of millions of dollars of property.

[Morjo]

Originally Posted by DataSlave

But it's the most logical route! There's nineteen bus routes teminating at Box Hill. By running trams from Box Hill down Station Street to Burwood Highway, taking over Route 75 and going all the way to Knox you take out route 732 completely! By going north to Doncaster you can cut back or modify the 291 (Box Hill -Doncaster -Heidelberg), 293 (Box Hill -Doncaster -Templestowe -Greensborough) and 295 (Box Hill -Doncaster -The Pines S.C.) as they all go straight up Tram Road before branching. And those are just the ones that really parallel the route.

How could a tram not be a good thing, once operational?

I was just saying that adding a tram track to go through that intersection would cause problems with traffic that's all. It's a dangerous intersection.
They use to have a tram go through there many many decades ago, when it was nowhere near as busy.

[cowface]

East West Link Needs Assessment Area

[Yardmaster]

Eventually the Eastern Freeway will probably get connected to citylink, hopefully by tunnel. Even so, the interchange is going to be an engineering nightmare ...

Beyond that, the cheaper freeways will get built ... where an easement's been reserved. Melways shows two such easements extending from the Northern Ring Road, outside of the Ring Road.

[DataSlave]

Originally Posted by Morjo

I was just saying that adding a tram track to go through that intersection would cause problems with traffic that's all. It's a dangerous intersection.
They use to have a tram go through there many many decades ago, when it was nowhere near as busy.

True, it is a troublesome intersection, and the buses don't make it any easier. It would probably be better to tunnel everything and have a major tram interchange under Box Hill station. I haven't been there for a while. I know Whitehorse Road falls to the west, and I think Station Street falls to the north and south.