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Old May 16th, 2007, 05:24 PM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
The Renaissance getting the chop is probably part of how they got to 1,000 rooms in the JW Marriott. I think the fact that this is actually a 1,000 room hotel, which Whiteco obviously did not want to do, is the biggest win of the redesign. This overall complex can handle a heckuva lot bigger convention HQ's that most competitor cities.
I agree -I think the biggest win is getting...how many rooms did they say, 1568 rooms total? The new Indystar article said its one of the biggest hotel projects outside of Vegas and Orlando...not sure how i feel about that, but...the main goal here (outside of outstanding architecture, of course) was getting a thousand hotel rooms connected to the convention center. In that respect, the city has done a great job - Indy will be able to host much bigger conventions with this project, and may jumpstart more projects in the immediate area.

Also,
Im with you, eweezer...I would loved to have seen something crazy like what the Chinese are building, even though few of those actual projects get built.

For further comparison...



or

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Old May 16th, 2007, 05:24 PM   #522
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I know the individual developers have more of a say in the architectual style... but if you go to the JW Marriott web sight and look at just the JW Marriott properties...... NONE of them except maybe the Hong Kong, and Shanghai properties are very inspiring. Looks like the Indy project will actually be the largest and tallest in the U.S. of the JW Marriotts.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 05:28 PM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfjapan View Post
I agree -I think the biggest win is getting...how many rooms did they say, 1568 rooms total? The new Indystar article said its one of the biggest hotel projects outside of Vegas and Orlando...not sure how i feel about that, but...the main goal here (outside of outstanding architecture, of course) was getting a thousand hotel rooms connected to the convention center. In that respect, the city has done a great job - Indy will be able to host much bigger conventions with this project, and may jumpstart more projects in the immediate area.

Also,
Im with you, eweezer...I would loved to have seen something crazy like what the Chinese are building, even though few of those actual projects get built.

For further comparison...



or

I prefer the LOS much more, I would love to see a structure in that style downtown, but for a stadium so massive, and willl be there for awhile, the style is very timeless. Its one thing to compare the marriott(which is total shit) to an interesting highrise, but the LOS is beautiful(minuse the little signs).
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Old May 16th, 2007, 05:30 PM   #524
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I Just Got To Thinking...

They ought to put balconies to flank the north & south sides where the white lines are... Honestly, i think that could do wonders! Perhaps, it could even be every other floor to give it a more dramatic effect?
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Old May 16th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
The Renaissance getting the chop is probably part of how they got to 1,000 rooms in the JW Marriott. I think the fact that this is actually a 1,000 room hotel, which Whiteco obviously did not want to do, is the biggest win of the redesign. This overall complex can handle a heckuva lot bigger convention HQ's that most competitor cities.
Excellent point. The current Courtyard Marriott is 236 rooms, so the city actually got 1332 rooms when they only asked for 1000, a hefty 33% improvement. Moving the grand ballroom onto the "campus" -- as well as the developer's decision to include even more banquet and meeting space in the JW-M -- effectively makes this a full extension of the convention center. The NFL should love this as part of the Super Bowl bid.

From a purely economic standpoint, this complex gets an A+.

As for the design, I'm trying to get a handle on the sawtooth element. I know I read the official press release yesterday and it had mention of a "dramatic sawtooth design" on the east elevation, but I can't find the press release now. Looking at the site plan, there's clearly a sawtooth on the east side that's not associated with the top of the building. The renderings definitely don't show this on the side of the building, so I think it may actually be part of the base facing West St, which would give the sawtooth top more of a context. Damn, we really need a rendering that shows more detail of the base.

Anybody know where I can find the press release?


edit: found the press release and this is the section I was referring to:

"The 29-story JW Marriott features a dramatic sawtooth design on the tower’s east side and is topped off with more than two dozen elegant condominiums."

Last edited by CorrND; May 16th, 2007 at 07:41 PM.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #526
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Something Disturbing AND Something Encouraging!

RTV 6 Top Slideshows,

Jogger Finds Cab In Fall Creek
Slideshow: Woman Rescues Child From Sinking Minivan
Car Interrupts Breakfast At Restaurant
Slideshow: Man Shot, Police Dog Killed Following Chase
» More Slideshows

What I found incredibly disturbing was the fact that ALL four of them involved automobiles! I mean come on now...

YET NOW SOME HAPPY NEWS!!

New Downtown Indianapolis Condo Project to Have Green Roof
InsideIndianaBusiness.com Report
5/16/2007 10:52:14 AM
A new condominium development near downtown Indianapolis has designed what it calls and extensive green roof that is aimed at helping the environment. The green roof on the 3Mass condominiums will have a thin layer of plants that will be put on top of more traditional waterproofing roofing material. Soil and vegetation on the roof will then filter particles from rainwater, including those that contribute to acid rain, creating cleaner water that is released into the storm system.

Source: Inside INdiana Business



Press Release

The new 3Mass condominium project known as “an island of calm in an ocean of cool” will have a green, environmentally friendly roof that will be one of the first of its kind in downtown Indianapolis. Halakar Properties and Pillar Investment, developers for the 3Mass project, along with Schmidt Associates, architect for the 3Mass condominiums, unveiled plans for an innovative solution to deal with rain water drainage from the 10-story, 44-unit project at the 3Mass official groundbreaking today.

“Normally in a dense urban development project, we’d have to build a storage system that would hold rainwater from the roof and then release the water slowly into storm sewers. That is a costly solution on a number of fronts,” said Todd Maurer, principal at Halakar Properties. “We found a better way to deal with storm water that will be environmentally friendly and less expensive as well as provide a social gathering space for residents.”

Indianapolis currently has some deep or “intensive” green roof systems at the Indiana State Museum, the Indianapolis Museum of Art and the downtown Westin Hotel. However, the 3Mass project will be the first “extensive” green roof system, which is lighter in weight and composed primarily of minerals like expanded shale, sand and compost instead of yard soil.

According to Schmidt & Associates architect Kevin Shelley, AIA, the 3Mass “extensive” green roof will place a thin, four to six-inch layer of planting medium on top of a more traditional waterproofing roof. The medium will be planted with specially selected ground covering plants. In parts of the roof, deeper areas of planting medium will contain small ornamental trees and grasses to control views and enhance visual interest.

Schmidt Associates has had a test piece of green roof on its building at 320 E. Vermont Street for two years. “You can water it for several minutes before any water runs out,” said Flandermeyer. “In small rain events, you won’t see water coming off it because it is absorbed in the soil.”

If the 3Mass extensive green roof reaches saturation, the excess rainwater will be slowly released into the city storm water system, but the water will be cleaner than when it fell. The green roof soil and vegetation will filter particulates from the rainwater – including those that contribute to acid rain – yielding cleaner water released to the storm system.

Urban buildings with black roofs create a “heat island” effect, while green roofs with growing space are typically much cooler. Green roofs save heating and cooling costs and put oxygen back into the air through the plants – something that is greatly needed in an urban area. Green roofs have been used for a number of years in Europe, particularly in densely populated urban areas with limited land. In Stuttgardt, Germany, the use of green roofs is nearly mandatory in certain forms of construction.

“A black rubber roof can reach temperatures of 160 degrees on a hot day and then cool to 70 degrees at night. That temperature variation puts a lot of stress on the roof membrane,” added Flandermeyer. “Based on the experiences in Germany, a green roof system can greatly increase the life of a roof. They have green roof systems there that have been in place for 30 to 50 years.”

Mayor Richard Daley began a green roof initiative in Chicago after he saw garden-like roofs in Europe. Chicago began its initiative by installing a green roof on City Hall in 2000 and now has the highest square footage of green roof in the U.S.

“If Chicago can be a demonstration area for green roofs, we can do it in Indianapolis,” added Maurer.

The idea of an “extensive” green roof is so new to Indianapolis that Schmidt Associates helped the city develop standards for 3Mass and future projects.

“We looked to the Chicago standards and suggested values for the runoff coefficient, the impervious factor for a green roof membrane, and the curve number (CN factor) based on the depth of the soil,” said Ron Hull, a civil engineer at Schmidt Associates.

The 3Mass rooftop garden will not need to be mowed, but it will require occasional maintenance by a landscaping company. It is likely to have a sub irrigation system to wick water back into the planting medium. Indianapolis typically has sufficient rain to keep the planting medium wet, minimizing the need to irrigate the plantings once they are established.

“An extensive green roof system adds to the construction cost, but weighed against the cost of a storage tank and water quality measures, the green roof was the best decision for this site,” said Maurer. “Discharging water into the storm sewers also generates an ongoing fee, so reducing the discharge is a benefit to the users into the future. Additionally, a green roof like this will minimize the project’s impact on the city sewer system, which is already challenged by storm water.”

Maurer added that the aesthetic benefit of an extensive green roof is just as desirable as the environmental and cost benefits: “The views from the 11th story patio will be spectacular. What better place to watch fireworks on the Fourth of July?”

The 3Mass condominiums will be completed for occupancy in late 2008.

Source: Halakar Properties and Pillar Investment

Here's to my LONGEST post yet!
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Old May 16th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiexInxIndy View Post
Maurer added that the aesthetic benefit of an extensive green roof is just as desirable as the environmental and cost benefits: “The views from the 11th story patio will be spectacular. What better place to watch fireworks on the Fourth of July?”

The 3Mass condominiums will be completed for occupancy in late 2008.

Source: Halakar Properties and Pillar Investment

Here's to my LONGEST post yet!
Neat idea. Condos start at 299K I wish I was wealthy.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 09:28 PM   #528
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There is a huge ugly white roof over that ballroom portion of the JW proposal.... that is screaming "MAKE ME GREEN!" How about an elevated park up there?
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Old May 16th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #529
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Fishers new 'downtown' would replace homes, businesses
By John Tuohy
[email protected]
May 16, 2007


FISHERS — Town officials plan to demolish up to 100 homes and businesses to make room for an ambitious foot-friendly shopping and residential district — where dinner could be followed by a stroll through art galleries or a seat on the lawn to listen to classical music.
The “Fishers Town Center,” would be east of the current municipal complex, spanning both sides of 116th Street, west of the I-69 interchange.
Town homes, apartments, and offices would mix with restaurants, shops and cultural attractions — all linked by promenade-specked plots of greenspace.

Key to the project’s success is quickly acquiring the homes and businesses in the targeted area, say town officials and the developer selected to oversee the project.

“We are not bottom feeders, we are not here to steal your property,” said Randy Ruttenberg, principal of Fairmont properties, Inc., of Ohio, while speaking to a group of 35 landowners at a meeting Tuesday night. “We recognize there should be some premium for what we buy.”

Town council members last week passed a resolution that “endorses Fairmont’s initiative’’ and stated it is “prepared to offer financial incentives to induce Fairmont’s development of Fishers Town Center.’’

The council selected Fairmont from about six companies that submitted proposals.

Although no project specifics have been provided, Town manager Gary Huff said town leaders were impressed by Fairmont’s other projects and the financial health of the company, which has 15 full-time employees.

“A lot of this depends on how it is received by the property owners, whether they want to see this land developed,” he said.

Huff added that the town is committed to avoiding taking land by eminent domain. “That’s the last thing anyone wants,’’ he said.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 09:46 PM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indywatch View Post
There is a huge ugly white roof over that ballroom portion of the JW proposal.... that is screaming "MAKE ME GREEN!" How about an elevated park up there?
Well, you get your answer pretty quick:

UPDATE: Hotel could get green roof

Developers may add a green roof to plans unveiled yesterday for a $325-million JW Marriott hotel complex. A spokesman for the development team tells Property Lines that discussions are underway about installing the environmentally friendly feature atop a 45,000-square-foot Grand Ballroom. Check out the top rendering here. The large white area between the bookend hotel towers is where vegetation could be planted to enhance energy efficiency.

http://216.37.14.55/blog/?p=89
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Old May 16th, 2007, 10:21 PM   #531
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NOW...

If that "green roof" comes into fruition my overall grades for this JW will be as follows;

Design= C to B-
Function= B- to B+
Direct Effect To City= B to A-
Miscl. Shit= B- to B
Overall= C+ to B

That's IF this green roof becomes a reality! Which IT really should...
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Old May 16th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #532
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DAMN! That was quick. LOL!

Like I said earlier, if they can green this ugly monstrocity up a bit with an elevated garden over the ballroom portion and trees on that upper saw-toothed area, I will quit bitching about the ugliness of the project and learn to live with it. What it lacks in aesthetics, it will make up for being environmentally conscience. ;-)
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:25 AM   #533
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a green roof? Thats some sweet shit! I would adore that! It seemed like a waste to just have all that empty space, and it will make it more pedestrain friendly.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:05 AM   #534
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I am not so sure about this whole "thin" green roof thing. Their claims seem a little preposterous to me. The whole water will come out cleaner stuff is bologna. Plus, someone is going to have to water this in the mid-summer and fall when it doesn't rain. I assume they will have to pay someone for that meaning higher rent/rates. And how will it look in the winter? Plus, they know that plants have roots right? I wonder if any of them ever had a maple tree in their yards and watched it push roots through solid concrete.

I am all for being green and environmentally friendly, but this does not seem the way to go. That little patch of grass on the apartment or the hotel is not going to make that big of a difference. If they wanted to make a difference, the hotel could change sheets every other day or something. Or, heck, how about covering that space with solar panels. Either of those would have a much bigger impact and make a lot more sense.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:25 AM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indywatch View Post
I know the individual developers have more of a say in the architectual style... but if you go to the JW Marriott web sight and look at just the JW Marriott properties...... NONE of them except maybe the Hong Kong, and Shanghai properties are very inspiring. Looks like the Indy project will actually be the largest and tallest in the U.S. of the JW Marriotts.
isnt there a rather tall an striking one being built in LA
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:47 AM   #536
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"I am not so sure about this whole "thin" green roof thing. "

There is more to the green roof than soil and grass. In fact I think you buy it in sheets like sod except you usally don't have to water it. It includes multiple grass species and perhaps one is more drought resistant. I think it is a great place for a green roof because of the thousands of people that will cycle through the building.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:28 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by Whosville View Post
I am not so sure about this whole "thin" green roof thing. Their claims seem a little preposterous to me. The whole water will come out cleaner stuff is bologna. Plus, someone is going to have to water this in the mid-summer and fall when it doesn't rain. I assume they will have to pay someone for that meaning higher rent/rates. And how will it look in the winter? Plus, they know that plants have roots right? I wonder if any of them ever had a maple tree in their yards and watched it push roots through solid concrete.

I am all for being green and environmentally friendly, but this does not seem the way to go. That little patch of grass on the apartment or the hotel is not going to make that big of a difference. If they wanted to make a difference, the hotel could change sheets every other day or something. Or, heck, how about covering that space with solar panels. Either of those would have a much bigger impact and make a lot more sense.
Um, I think they have it all figured out. A green roof is a fantastic idea. Change sheets every other day...? Gross.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:36 AM   #538
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isnt there a rather tall an striking one being built in LA
The JW Marriott portion is pretty bland...

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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:42 AM   #539
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JW Marriott is different than Marriott. Like Conrad is different from Hilton. The JW is their flagship 5 star hotel... suppose to be a notch above. It looks as though the LA project is just a Marriott with a Ritz combination as the tall portion. I'm not sure what JW has in the works, but right now it looks as though Indy is the tallest, with the most rooms in the US. I'm surprised by that as well. Kudo's to Indy.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:59 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by Indywatch View Post
JW Marriott is different than Marriott. Like Conrad is different from Hilton. The JW is their flagship 5 star hotel... suppose to be a notch above. It looks as though the LA project is just a Marriott with a Ritz combination as the tall portion. I'm not sure what JW has in the works, but right now it looks as though Indy is the tallest, with the most rooms in the US. I'm surprised by that as well. Kudo's to Indy.
Yeah, I'm aware of the difference. The rendering I posted is a JW Marriott.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=464758
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