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Old May 25th, 2007, 05:50 AM   #721
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You know, even though we arent the artsist, city,
I think we are quite fortunate to have such a proggresive art community in Indianapolis.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 04:44 PM   #722
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You guys think the Kosene proposal is a shoe-in... Do you really think it is a better proposal, or do you like it only because the towers are are taller than the other proposal?
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Old May 25th, 2007, 05:21 PM   #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehoss257 View Post
You guys think the Kosene proposal is a shoe-in... Do you really think it is a better proposal, or do you like it only because the towers are are taller than the other proposal?
Well, its higher density, the facade can be easiely changed if it becomes an eyesore, and it fills it more, not to mention what it will do for the skyline.
Balconies and more greenery could be used, which makes the other proposal highly attractive aswell. Hopefully the back of these structurs respect the Lockerbie area, and we have yet to see renderings of it from the east. I think they should have brick arches on street level to respect the city market building, while retaining an upper modern style, with Indianapolis city flags flowing between the arches.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 05:30 PM   #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehoss257 View Post
You guys think the Kosene proposal is a shoe-in... Do you really think it is a better proposal, or do you like it only because the towers are are taller than the other proposal?
Hoss...the only reason why I think it is superior and will be chosen is because it has twice as many residential units, with a lot of apartment options, something that the DT market really is lacking. Everything has been condo, condo, condo.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 05:59 PM   #725
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We now know who to blame for the JW Marriott ...

Downtown Development: And to think he owes it all to mom

Bruce White, whose Merrillville company is co-developing a 1,000-room JW Marriott Hotel Downtown, says his mother was instrumental in the acquisition of the site about 20 years ago.

When his father, billionaire Dean White, balked at his son's proposal to buy the 10 acres at West and Washington streets that then held a Howard Johnson's motel, Barbara White interceded.

Her plea: "You need to do something to support our son," Bruce White recalled. He mentioned his mom's role last week at a news conference to unveil the hotel's design.

The city has agreed to cough up $48 million to subsidize the $325 million project.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1003/BUSINESS
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Old May 26th, 2007, 03:22 AM   #726
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Quote:
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That is the main reason I prefer the Kosene towers as well. The units in the Mansur tower also cost twice as much as at the Kosene towers.. there are a few more reasons I prefer Kosene though:

1.) I'm scared of the Mansur proposal's Target in that location.. I fear a low rise target with a large surface lot off Washington street. the Kosene proposal would allow the Target to be built on the old Arena Banking center site.

2.) Height is a big factor for me.. I won't lie.. the Mansur proposal does nothing for the skyline. Even a 250 footer at that location will make a big impact.

3.) The Kosene proposal complements and provides desperately needed context for the City County Building. Anything that makes the CCB look good is good in my book.

Unionstation13, I know you'd like to brick up the CCB and every other frickin building downtown ala the Zipper building refacde, but it just ain't gonna happen. And thank God for that. Yes, I know City Market is an important part of the history of the area, but surrounding it with a lot of contrived "pottery barn architecture" will not enhance it one iota, and would almost certainly detract from it. Truth is, City Market doesn't need enhancment. It stands very well on it's own.

I feel weird making a "pre-emptive strike" on you Unionstation13, but it seems that while you respect the historical signifigance of City Market and other buildings built in the same era, you don't seem to have any respect for the historical signifigance of the CCB, The Gold Building and other similar structures. Yes, those are an important part of the history of Indianapolis as well... Far better to add architecture that enhances them, rather than put in a bunch of fake 19th century crap and pretend we just don't see those 300 footers...
someones got a case of the bitchys.
The city county building shouldent just be wiped out or refaced(even though I used to think it should) and neither should many buildings downtown. BUT
Street level should use some brick on the kosene design(not the entire area)
even if its a funky brick form, and at the eastern facade(lowrise section) it should have a brick facade do to Lockerbie, and that areas architecture should be respected with atleast a brick facaded area to the east. As for the towers, I adore them, with their cool style, and the way they made the glass.
Gold building? Are you joking!? I luv that building, its one of my favorite skyscrapers. You have worped somehow in your mind that I still am out to reface every 70s facade building downtown, some things should be refacaded do to their location, or have certian materials(like the chase bank on the circle, NOT THE TOWER) The zipper building was an eyesore and disrespected even the other modern buildings. But structures like the CCB, and the federal building should be preserved! 19th century crap huh? Like I said, it depends, sometimes it looks like disney land shit, and other times it fits in quite tasetfully, it all depends, same with the modern architecture, some of it looks like shit, some of it fits in quite well and tastefully. The only time I dislike modern architecture, is when it will be hidiouse in ten years, timeless modern architecture(Like the Indiana state museum, IMA, Kosene designs) are tasteful, and will compliment downtown for generations to come, they arent nearly as signifigant as the three story italiante brick structure from the late 19th century or so, but they are still important to the progressing city Indianapolis is. Indianapolis has a good amount of nostalgic architecture(LOS, infill, etc) and modern(but needs more) architecture,(IMA, ISM, FB, CCB)
What is your problem? I will admit when I started I thought everything should be refaced with brick and stone, but debating with people makes me appreciate modern architecture more. The CCB being historic is both a yes and no thing, it is in a way historic, being from the 60s, and having a specific style from that era, but at the same time, compared to the age of the city and sorounding structures, it isnt.
Another thing about location. Certian areas(like around the statehouse, wholesale, Mass ave, Lockerbie, circle, world war memorial, etc) should not take a massive load of attention, those areas should be nuetral in style to leave the attention to the old architecture, and in some areas, the attention should be kept on the modern architecture(like the ISM, IMA, ETC) you think I have a problem with modern architecture? You throw a bitchfit anytime something old fashioned is built(LOS, infill, etc)
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Old May 26th, 2007, 04:21 AM   #727
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"A local businessman has plans for two new independent restaurants downtown near the corner of Ohio and East streets. One of them, Cabo’s Mexican Grill, is slated to open next week at 132 East St., across from Fifth Third Bank. The other restaurant, which would serve Caribbean food, is planned for 123 N. New Jersey, site of the old Best Rentals building (pictured). The owner of a nearby Citgo station, Moe Hanif, is a partner in both restaurants. He used to own restaurants in Monticello, Indiana."
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Old May 26th, 2007, 04:23 AM   #728
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Indystar comment people hate the idea of revitalizing Speedway... Personally, I think it could use a lot of work. The proposal:
http://bp3.blogger.com/_g-J5F47Klrs/...0-h/Image1.jpg

It'll probably never happen anyway... Indianapolis seems to like to waste time on wishing how good it COULD be, but never do anything about it.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:06 AM   #729
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Quote:
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Indystar comment people hate the idea of revitalizing Speedway... Personally, I think it could use a lot of work. The proposal:
http://bp3.blogger.com/_g-J5F47Klrs/...0-h/Image1.jpg

It'll probably never happen anyway... Indianapolis seems to like to waste time on wishing how good it COULD be, but never do anything about it.
that would really help that area, since it is a major landmark for Indianapolis, and the bigges traceway in the world, I always thought it could desperatly use a dense sourounding area.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 09:31 AM   #730
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Sorry to be pedantic, but Speedway is not Indianapolis.
Sorry to be pedantic, but.... it is.

It is a town in Indianapolis. Bart is their mayor too.

" The town is a separate governmental unit within Indianapolis with its own town council, police department, fire department, street department, parks and recreation department, water and wastewater utilities, school system, and public library."
http://www.townofspeedway.org/
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Old May 26th, 2007, 04:00 PM   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billionbucks View Post
Sorry to be pedantic, but.... it is.

It is a town in Indianapolis. Bart is their mayor too.

" The town is a separate governmental unit within Indianapolis with its own town council, police department, fire department, street department, parks and recreation department, water and wastewater utilities, school system, and public library."
http://www.townofspeedway.org/
There could probably be considerable debate whether Speedway is part of Indianapolis or not. From what I can tell, Speedway is one of the four "independent" cities/towns other than Indy within Marion County, Lawrence, Beech Grove and Southport are the others. But Speedway is a "town" while the other three are "cities" with their own mayors. As a town, Speedway does not have a separate mayor, but it does have its own town council, school system, municipal services, etc. There are several other "towns" within Marion County and Indianapolis that retain their own councils: Clermont, Rocky Ripple, Cumberland, etc. (http://www.imcpl.org/resources/guide...tionsfaq.html). It would be interesting to know if Speedway's population is included in the Indianapolis figure, or if it is reported separately, like the other three Marion County cities...anyone know?
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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:29 PM   #732
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It is seperate..

Cumberland has "half" oif its population included in the Indianapolis population because half of it is "included."
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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:59 PM   #733
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I think it would be helpful if Union Station defined what exactly a historic structure is. Is there some sort of cut off date with regard to "historic" status?
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Old May 26th, 2007, 07:48 PM   #734
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Lugar's unigov is confusing. As far as I'm concerned, they're not seperate from Indianapolis unless they vote in their own mayor like Beech Grove,etc do. While they're still voting for the Indianapolis mayor, they're a part of Indianapolis in my book. All towns/cities within Marion county are subject to Indianapolis law. City-County law and respresentation grant road repair and other natural resource management. As Peterson continues with "IndianapolisWorks!" we'll see how much more we will unify Marion County.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 08:35 PM   #735
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Massive project planned
Woodfield Crossing proposal calls for hotel, offices, condos, and 5,000-seat theater

A local firm plans to redevelop a quiet corner near the Fashion Mall into a mixed-use behemoth with a full-service hotel, 5,000-seat theater, hundreds of condos, and more than a million square feet of office and retail space.

A site plan and renderings for the 1.8-millionsquare-foot project, called Woodfield Crossing, show several modern-looking buildings oriented around a circular plaza southwest of the intersection of Keystone Avenue and 86th Street. The retail component alone would be roughly the size of the Fashion Mall at Keystone. And the entire project’s square footage would make it about 50 percent larger than Castleton Square Mall.

Plans show three midrise buildings and several smaller structures. The project calls for a 700,000-square-foot office building, a 240,000-square-foot hotel, 650,000 square feet of retail space, and 240,000 square feet of residential.

The tallest of the buildings appears to be about 20 stories. Although no cost figure was available at press time, the project would likely range into the hundreds of millions of dollars. The developer, Premier Properties USA Inc., hopes to open the project in the summer of 2009.

Premier displayed the site plan and renderings as part of its booth at the International Council of Shopping Centers’ annual conven- tion in Las Vegas May 20-23. Premier is pitching potential tenants on the project, but company officials said it’s too early to discuss plans publicly.

The project would replace Woodfield Centre, a 60,000-square-foot retail center anchored by Elán Furs and D’Vine Wine Bar. It also would require adjacent properties and was designed to incorporate at least two neighboring office buildings.

Premier hired The Jerde Partnership, a Los Angeles-based architecture and urban planning firm, to design the project. Jerde came up with a dramatic layout unlike any other in Indianapolis.

A description of the project on Premier’s Web site says Woodfield Crossing will “embody a lifestyle and experience that in the past was only available to locals in popular tourist destinations throughout the world.”

The description says the project—which would sit across the street from a development that will include the city’s first Whole Foods—will include its own organic foods market, among many other tenants.

Real estate brokers say the location is prime and has been underused. But the scope of the project attracted a measure of skepticism.

“It’s certainly a viable retail corridor,” said Donna Hovey, vice president of retail for the local office of Los Angeles-based CB Richard Ellis. “The question becomes, are there any underserved retail markets there, and do the uses the developer has in mind coincide with that gap?”

She said Premier has had success building and leasing projects, despite naysayers. The company developed the funky Echelon retail center, near the northwest corner of 82nd Street and Allisonville Road, and Metropolis, a 600,000-squarefoot lifestyle center in Plainfield. Materials distributed in Las Vegas show plans for an 800,000-square-foot expansion called Metropolis Commons.

“They’re a regional developer that has quietly gone about developing their projects, often under the radar,” Hovey said. “I think they’ll probably pull it off.”

Property records show Premier bought the 6.4-acre Woodfield Centre property in 2001. It was not clear whether the company has secured other properties it would need to complete the redevelopment project, including office buildings that also carry the Woodfield Crossing name.

Premier would not provide digital copies of the rendering or site plan, but an IBJ reporter photographed both in Las Vegas. (The images can be found on the Property Lines real estate blog at www.ibj.com.)

The Woodfield Centre shopping strip was developed in 1988 by the predecessor to Indianapolis-based Lauth. The center has suffered because it is difficult to access and doesn’t have much visibility. The onestory shopping center is hidden by an onramp to Keystone Avenue.

Premier has not replaced some tenants that have left over the years, including Especially Wicker and George’s Steaks & Seafood. And the company has put other retailers on notice that redevelopment is on the horizon.

Circle City Tickets’ lease allows the ticket broker to walk or the landlord to kick it out with four months’ notice, said Mike Peduto, a partner in Circle City. He said the firm renegotiated its lease about a year ago.

“They said they’re going to tear the place down and do something different,” Peduto said. “They told us there will be a place for us.”

If there’s any area of Indianapolis where such an “aggressive” development could work, it would be in the vicinity of Keystone at the Crossing, said Jeff Henry, managing principal at the local office of St. Louis-based Colliers Turley Martin Tucker. In 2006, there were about 25,000 households with a median income of $68,400 living within three miles of Woodfield Centre—prime demographics in the eyes of many retailers.



http://www.ibj.com/html/detail_page.asp?content=02102
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Old May 26th, 2007, 08:39 PM   #736
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renderings for the above project:



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Old May 26th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #737
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Local malls line up new restaurants, retailers
Cheesecake Factory to open in Greenwood; hot clothing store H&M heading to Castleton

LAS VEGAS—Redevelopment plans at Greenwood Park and Castleton Square malls call for popular new restaurants and a sought-after Swedish clothing retailer.

The additions—which would add the area’s second locations for The Cheesecake Factory and fashion retailer H&M, along with new-to-the-market restaurants Stir Crazy and BJ’s Restaurant & Brewery—are named in materials Simon Property Group Inc. shared with retailers at the International Council of Shopping Centers annual convention in Las Vegas.

The highest-profile new tenant at Greenwood Park Mall would be The Cheesecake Factory, one of the nation’s most popular and lucrative restaurant concepts, with average annual receipts of $11 million per restaurant. Nationwide, Cheesecake has about 125 restaurants ranging in size up to 21,000 square feet.

The Calabasas Hills, Calif.-based chain has seen “above average” results at its lone Indianapolis location, at the Fashion Mall at Keystone, and likes the growth in Greenwood, said Howard Gordon, a Cheesecake senior vice president. He said a lease is not yet final, but confirmed the restaurant’s interest.

Other restaurants slated for a new, open-air lifestyle addition to Greenwood Park Mall include BJ’s Restaurant & Brewery and Stir Crazy, a casual Asian restaurant. The new BJ’s would be the first in Indiana for the Huntington Beach, Calif.-based chain, which has 60 locations in 10 states, including one in Columbus, Ohio.

Stir Crazy, which is based in Chicago, has nine locations in six states, including Illinois and Ohio. The chain allows customers to select fresh stir-fry ingredients and watch a chef prepare their meals.

Retail brokers say the new restaurants are a major victory for the Greenwood market. Cheesecake’s decision to step in, after an earlier deal with California-based Elephant Bar Restaurant fell through, is a vote of confidence that should draw other retailers, said Steve Delaney, a Sitehawk Retail Real Estate broker who specializes in restaurants.

Castleton Square, the retail juggernaut along East 86th Street, will be getting stronger, too. The Simon plans show Stir Crazy and Stockholm, Sweden-based H&M—or Hennes & Mauritz—both will be part of the mall’s new lifestyle center component.

H&M created a buzz when it opened in Circle Centre in 2005. The retailer is known for offering runway-ready clothes at affordable prices.

The lifestyle centers at Greenwood and Castleton will replace L.S. Ayres stores that closed after Cincinnati-based Federated Department Stores acquired St. Louis-based May Department Stores, the parent of Ayres. The combined company operates as Macy’s Inc.

The lifestyle center at Castleton also will include an AMC Theatre and Borders Books & Music. The mall will have 1.26 million square feet of space. Greenwood, with 1.16 million square feet, will be getting a Barnes & Noble bookstore. Simon, which owns both malls, previously had announced the bookstore and theater additions.

The new restaurants and H&M are named in a pamphlet Simon shared with retailers at the company’s 26,500-squarefoot booth at the ICSC convention May 20-23.

The document does not disclose the amount of space the retailers will take, but says both projects are scheduled for completion in the fall.

Simon officials did not return phone messages seeking comment on the plans and declined to meet with an IBJ reporter in Las Vegas. But people familiar with the process of securing retailers for malls say developers typically don’t publish retailer names unless they have signed letters of intent and feel confident deals will be reached.

In the same document, Simon disclosed that Hamilton Town Center, the 900,000-square-foot shopping center under construction at Interstate 69 and the East 146th Street extension, will include Dick’s Sporting Goods, Cost Plus World Market, JC Penney, Old Navy, Borders Books & Music, Bed Bath & Beyond, DSW, Ulta Cosmetics and Hamilton Theater with Imax.

The company also plans to add a sixunit food court to College Mall in Bloomington and a lifestyle-center expansion at Eastland Mall in Evansville.

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Old May 26th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #738
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Gorilla exhibit to be one of nation’s largest
Apes and new oceans area designed to boost attendance, conservation

Fresh off the debut of a $9.5 million Oceans exhibit, the Indianapolis Zoo is already laying the groundwork for its next blockbuster. But it may come with a beastly price tag. A gorilla and bonobo habitat scheduled to open in 2013 is expected to cost tens of millions of dollars.

“I can’t tell you if this is a $30 million project or a $50 million project,” said Indianapolis Zoo President Michael Crowther. “What I can tell you is that we’re not willing to design something that doesn’t change the world.”

The new exhibits are part of an attempt to reposition the zoo in people’s minds, Crowther said. The zoo wants to be known as a hotbed of conservation, not just a nice place to visit. Also, new exhibits drive attendance and revenue.

Both have been climbing in recent years. Attendance rose from less than a million in 2002 to 1.3 million in 2006. Earned revenue has gone from $14 million to almost $21 million in the same period.

The gorilla exhibit could leave those figures in the dust.

When a zoo is picking an attraction that both captures the public’s imagination and covers a pressing conservation need, you can’t really beat the great apes—a grouping that includes gorillas, chimps, orangutans and bonobos, according to Tara Stoinski, chairwoman of the Ape Taxonomic Advisory Group for the Silver Springs, Md.-based American Zoo and Aquarium Association.

“They’re just wonderful to watch because they resonate with people,” she said. In 2004, when the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha, Neb., opened its revamped gorilla area—a three-acre, $14 million project—its annual attendance jumped 14 percent, to 1.5 million visitors.

The apes need all the exposure they can get; they’re on the verge of extinction due to the destruction of their habitats. Indianapolis’ exhibit will house two highly endangered species from the African rain forest: lowland gorillas, whose numbers in the wild have dwindled to about 25,000, and bonobos.

Wild bonobos now number around 10,000. The species, which is the closest genetic match to humans, are much smaller than gorillas and, like chimps, exhibit moods through facial expressions.

“We want this to be the most significant great-apes center in the world,” Crowther said. “We’re making a statement for the city and what it can accomplish … .”

That’s part of why zoo leaders in February allotted themselves 14 months to come up with the design. They’ve set up an advisory committee and hired New York-based producer Ed Sherin, who directed 163 episodes of “Law & Order,” to make sure the exhibit tells the story of the ape’s plight, moving visitors through it like acts in a play.

And they’ve brought in Steve Ross, a primatologist who studies habitats that suit the needs of apes. He spearheaded the 2004, $27 million redesign of the ape area at Chicago’s Lincoln Park Zoo.

“I’m very excited because there are some things you only get [about designing an exhibit] after you’ve done it once,” he said. “The bar for exhibits is not as high as it’s going to go.”

The zoo also hired locally based Browning Day Mullins Dierdorf Architects. Ross said the group has regular meetings and, though he and Sherin often begin talks at opposite ends of the spectrum, they usually find a compromise.

“We’re going to provide a great, lifealtering, emotional experience for visitors and create environments where the apes are comfortable,” he said.

While many of the details are still to be fleshed out or are under wraps, Crowther did spill some beans.

He said the square footage hasn’t been nailed down, though to be the nation’s biggest it would have to top the Bronx Zoo’s 6-1/2-acre habitat, a $43 million project that opened in 1999. Crowther said the committee is “considering going significantly vertical” and that plans will include both “significant enclosed and outdoor space.”

He said the construction would take up much of the west end of the zoo along the river near the entrance of the Great Plains area, meaning some existing areas would be reconfigured.

Crowther said the goal is to unveil detailed plans in August or September to gauge support. In 2006, the zoo closed a fund-raising campaign that raised $31 million to pay for the Oceans exhibit and the dolphin dome and to create an annual, $100,000 conservation award, known as the Indianapolis Prize, that was first awarded last September.

Previous successful campaigns can be a gauge of the likelihood of future success, said Gene Tempel, director of the Center on Philanthropy at Indiana University. If the exhibit really is the nation’s largest or most cutting-edge, that will be a big draw for donors, Tempel said.

“Indianapolis likes to be in a leadership position,” he said. “You might be able to generate a great deal of community pride.”
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Old May 26th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #739
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Fountain Square to be home to state’s largest wifi hot spot

By the end of June, all of the Fountain Square Cultural District and a large stretch of the path of the future Cultural Trail spur leading into the district will have free wireless access to the Internet, thanks to several community groups.

The Indianapolis Local Initiatives Support Corp. provided a $2,500 grant to help pay for equipment. Indianapolis-based eWireless has donated its time to design, install and manage the network with equipment being hosted at the Fountain Square Theatre. Several area merchants have also pitched in to aid the project, which will cost about $3,300, according to Paul Baumgarten with Southeast Neighborhood Development Inc.

Anyone with a laptop with wireless capabilities will be able to register to use the service that will be the state’s largest, according to Henry Kurkowski, vice president of business development at eWireless. The cultural district has set up registration and log-on screens to direct users to a calendar of local community events to spur attendance.

“It’s a very robust way for [the district] to use wifi to touch their tourism audience,” Kurkowski said. “With free wifi, if you give it away, people will come.”

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/ml...sh-skin-custom

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Old May 26th, 2007, 09:20 PM   #740
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2.) Height is a big factor for me.. I won't lie.. the Mansur proposal does nothing for the skyline. Even a 250 footer at that location will make a big impact.
And the Kosene proposal does nothing for the skyline either. We would be much better served if they combined both of the buildings into one and preserved the other parcel for future development. This was the biggest mistake, among many, in the MSA RFP. The City is in too much of a hurry to redevelop the entire site. One high-density, high-quality project would have sufficed and most likely spurred future development. I still think the Kosene proposal is medicore at best. All you have to do is look at development in other peer cities to see more urban and better designs. I think we have gone backwards in downtown project quality and design since the 1988-1992 period.
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