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Old April 24th, 2007, 06:14 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icahn View Post
Well said ablerock. The proposed Broadbent facade of the former zipper building is one of the worst pieces of dreck design (don't even call it architecture) that your fair city has seen in years. A city that passes up a chance to build a once-in-a-generation Class A Hotel (Intercontinental) and supports and breeds this kind of crap, deserves the rotten, bland, conservative, ill-nostalgic, retrofitted mish-mash, meaningless Disneyesque architecture that seems to thrive in Indy and seems to deserve. So many missed opportunities and over and over it's the same trash. If I worked on that project, I'd have my name removed out of shame. Anyone who cannot see why it is so terrible needs to pick up a book - atleast The Idiots Guide to Architecture.
Where can I pick that up?
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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:45 AM   #62
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beautiful!
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Old April 24th, 2007, 10:00 AM   #63
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Omg, its going up no matter how much you talk about its ugliness. Become an urban planner and make sure another one like it isn't built if everyone hates it so much... The Zipper building is gone and the steamboat has pulled in, the end.

I'm glad to hear the walgreens is being built up to the street. Much better than the EconoLodge. Now let's talk about that Ihop...
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Old April 24th, 2007, 03:55 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
Okay.. I'll post it. This pic that I ran across by accident:



Is strikingly similar to what I've seen of Penn Tower. This is the Biltmore Hotel, now demolished, from OKC. it's 24 stories and about 300 foot tall. The totally not yet submitted for approval and still in the negotiating/planning stages and very much subject to possible changes Penn Tower is at least 10+ stories and at least 200 foot taller. Just stretch this puppy a lot and you'll see pretty much what I've seen. Again.. This is subject to change. This could turn into a Conrad sized hotel pretty easily.

I'm thinking I'll stop talking about Penn Tower. It's all hearsay and rumor anyway until the proposal has been submitted and made public. I just hope this satisfies a bit of curiosity.

Regardless whether this turns out to be 300' or 600' or taller, (all possible) this is pretty much what you can expect to see. And yes, before anyone asks, oodles and gobs of street level retail, restaurants and bars, condos, hotel rooms, apartments (maybe) and office space on top of a huge well hidden parking garage. This will be done right. there will be little to no complaints from us here. Well.. except for the fact that the Omega building will be demolished.

And before anyone laments the retro design, the reason for it is the historical district that demands it. A modern tower would be totally inappropriate for the area, and wouldn't be approved.

I don't know why this is being kept so hyper secret. I do know that negotations are delicate, and include a lot of parties, including some big national names that I won't disclose. This is a terribly complex project. The type of project that often means some delays. I really shouldn't be talking about this at all anymore.

Shutting up now.
Mr. Moochie...

What I've seen (yesterday) of Penn Tower, or Penn Plaza/Penn Centre looks like an elongated version of this, and weighed in at about 25 stories:



BUT, I have no idea when, or at what stage in the design process, the rendering was created. It was an attractive building none-the-less.

I also got a chance to see the new northern facade of the Jefferson National/Jefferson Plaza building. An improvement of sorts. They're putting itty-bitty wittle balconies on on the top 3 floors.

Last edited by ablerock; April 24th, 2007 at 04:10 PM. Reason: I kant spel
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:17 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icahn View Post
Well said ablerock. The proposed Broadbent facade of the former zipper building is one of the worst pieces of dreck design (don't even call it architecture) that your fair city has seen in years. A city that passes up a chance to build a once-in-a-generation Class A Hotel (Intercontinental) and supports and breeds this kind of crap, deserves the rotten, bland, conservative, ill-nostalgic, retrofitted mish-mash, meaningless Disneyesque architecture that seems to thrive in Indy and seems to deserve. So many missed opportunities and over and over it's the same trash. If I worked on that project, I'd have my name removed out of shame. Anyone who cannot see why it is so terrible needs to pick up a book - atleast The Idiots Guide to Architecture.
You honestly need to calm down, its a done deal, its over,
ITS GOING TO BE THERE. Might as well move on. Its not thrilling no,
its not amazing, no. But its sort of like an infill in a neo-old(but not exactly the grandest) style. No need to bitch about it for the rest of your life.
The baltimore hotel is very attractive, something like that downtown would be very interesting, but the second pic, that is good, but would the second picture fit in with the wholesale district?
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:27 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by altfelix View Post
All very, very true. Glasses don't work when you decide to go with something off the shoulder.

I am cracking up!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

I really don't get all of the dislike. I like it and think it will look good. It is supposed to look old, yet it is new construction. "Old" looking gets built downtown all the time and this is no different. Yes, Carmel and Fishers are dominated by this, but is that really that bad?
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:35 PM   #67
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The Biltmore Hotel design is along what I had pictured in my head for the Penn Tower too.

Ablerock...do you work for the City or IDI? How would you see renderings? I am especially curious about the Jefferson Plaza reuse. I like the idea of balconies, even if they are tiny. If I was to buy in a building, it would have to have out-door access, even if small.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #68
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Sorry to beat a dead horse. I didn't know that this was once Merchants Bank? I moved to Indy in 1993 so I like looking at the old photos you guys are posting on here.... Damn it I can't post this picture to save my life!

http://indiamond6.ulib.iupui.edu/cdm...=0&x=358&y=209
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:50 PM   #69
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I would enjoy putting faces with names. I like the idea of an Indy meet and I think that the War Memorial is a great place. We would just have to make sure it wasn't on a day during a festival. There is always something happening there on Saturday's and Sunday's during the summer.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 05:46 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
I would enjoy putting faces with names. I like the idea of an Indy meet and I think that the War Memorial is a great place. We would just have to make sure it wasn't on a day during a festival. There is always something happening there on Saturday's and Sunday's during the summer.
The last week of July I believe the USS Indianapolis Museum opens up at the IWM. There will be a survivor parade among other things that week.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 05:56 PM   #71
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dp
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Old April 24th, 2007, 05:57 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naptown View Post
BTW - I've been thinking about this for quite some time: would anyone be interested in a forum meet? It seems we have twenty or so forumers from Indy, maybe we could get together on a Saturday afternoon in June or July. Would anyone be interested in that?
I would be into that. I will just tape a piece of paper to my chest that says "hoosier" so you can find me.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 06:23 PM   #73
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That would be interesting, but, my schedule is tight all month(my ******* retarded boss.) And this weekend I wont be in town. I have to go to a wedding(that probably will turn out into a divorce).
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Old April 24th, 2007, 06:50 PM   #74
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From Today's Online IBJ:

White River State Park improves Lawn venue
Tue, Apr 24 - 2007
IBJ Staff

A new VIP section at The Lawn concert venue at White River State Park will add 200 seats to the existing capacity of 5,800, the park development commission announced today.

The site, near Victory Field and the White River, also is getting a permanent stage that will allow groups to load shows in and out.

Acts scheduled this season include the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra, Bob Dylan and Bryan Adams.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 06:59 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
From Today's Online IBJ:

White River State Park improves Lawn venue
Tue, Apr 24 - 2007
IBJ Staff

A new VIP section at The Lawn concert venue at White River State Park will add 200 seats to the existing capacity of 5,800, the park development commission announced today.

The site, near Victory Field and the White River, also is getting a permanent stage that will allow groups to load shows in and out.

Acts scheduled this season include the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra, Bob Dylan and Bryan Adams.
I'm not sure I'd call a 200 seat VIP section an improvement. It's called the Lawn, for god's sake! It should just be a big open-seating venue. A VIP section is only an improvement to Live Nation's bottom-line.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 07:52 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
Okay.. I'll post it. This pic that I ran across by accident:



Is strikingly similar to what I've seen of Penn Tower. This is the Biltmore Hotel, now demolished, from OKC. it's 24 stories and about 300 foot tall. The totally not yet submitted for approval and still in the negotiating/planning stages and very much subject to possible changes Penn Tower is at least 10+ stories and at least 200 foot taller. Just stretch this puppy a lot and you'll see pretty much what I've seen. Again.. This is subject to change. This could turn into a Conrad sized hotel pretty easily.

I'm thinking I'll stop talking about Penn Tower. It's all hearsay and rumor anyway until the proposal has been submitted and made public. I just hope this satisfies a bit of curiosity.

Regardless whether this turns out to be 300' or 600' or taller, (all possible) this is pretty much what you can expect to see. And yes, before anyone asks, oodles and gobs of street level retail, restaurants and bars, condos, hotel rooms, apartments (maybe) and office space on top of a huge well hidden parking garage. This will be done right. there will be little to no complaints from us here. Well.. except for the fact that the Omega building will be demolished.

And before anyone laments the retro design, the reason for it is the historical district that demands it. A modern tower would be totally inappropriate for the area, and wouldn't be approved.

I don't know why this is being kept so hyper secret. I do know that negotations are delicate, and include a lot of parties, including some big national names that I won't disclose. This is a terribly complex project. The type of project that often means some delays. I really shouldn't be talking about this at all anymore.

Shutting up now.
OK moochie. You have to stop teasing me! Now that you've shown what Penn Tower could possibly look like, I can't take it anymore!

On a serious note, a taller version of the Biltmore would be fantastic. It's simple yet elegant and majestic. It would definitely give the skyline some muscle.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 08:25 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorrND View Post
I'm not sure I'd call a 200 seat VIP section an improvement. It's called the Lawn, for god's sake!
They forgot to mention VIP tickets include Gold-plated Lawn chairs and complementary Versace bug-spray. :-)
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Old April 24th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #78
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I am new to the forum, but have lurked for a while. It took a while to catch up on these threads. Interesting conversation. I guess my first question is why people seem confused about what Indianapolis likes in architecture. Indy is, was and always will be a conservative midwest city. Therefore our architecture follows that. I would rather have that then some of these modern buildings that look bad 20 years later. ie. the modern period of the 60's that look like soviet gulags. Lugar Towers would be an example. Or the fad architecure that quickly falls out of favor like the zipper building. It was butt ugly.

For the most part, Indy architecture weathers most fads. Buildings built 20 years ago still look good today. One America (AUL) still looks good. Chase
Tower, the CCB, Market Tower etc.... still look good. Cutting edge usually equals problems. The Pyramids are great to look at, but are a nightmare for maintenance. The windows have always leaked, the HVAC sucks and the leasable floor plan is hideous. MSA, was a cool design, but it sucked for moving events in and out. How good is a building that sucks at its primary purpose?

Indy will always have conservative architecture, complaining will not change that. I did find it interesting that some criticized the Villagio for not fitting into the neighborhood. Two things, first that is/was a heavily italian neighborhood and the villagio echos italian themes. Second, people want different, but then when they get it, they don't like it or it does not fit in.

For the Indy bashers from KC, they are just ticked that the Colts not only won the Superbowl, but we repeatedly knock them out of the playoffs.

As for the Cincy Indybashers, they are ticked that the Cincy Enquirer wrote an article that said Indy has what we want.

Ignore them, they are just jealous.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 11:47 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy1st View Post
...the villagio echos italian themes...
...very, very poorly (in other words, not really) and only on one side.

It's a blimp of a fart of a building built for a quick buck. Somebody tagged it and made my day.

Glad you're not lurking and threw your 2 cents in. :-)
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Old April 25th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #80
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Quote:
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Wait a sec... Penn tower is officially called "Pennsylvania street Hotel and Condominiums".. unless it's been changed recently. Are we talking about the same project? What is this "Penn Plaza/Centre"? "My" Penn tower is on the corner of Pennsylvania and Maryland. Could there be another project we don't know about?
Regarding the rendering I've seen...

There is no archway, just a single building. It almost looks like a model, but I'm fairly certain it's a computer rendering. It's a 3/4 profile from above. It has 3 major setbacks (all on the same side, making steps) with dozens of trees shown on the bottom 2. It makes use of brick and green tinted/frosted glass heavily.

It really looks like 707 North East Street's big skyscrapin' brother, right down to the roof styling. Based on some faint ghostlines of other buildings in the image, it looks as if it's on the same lot as "your" :-) Penn Tower. (Don't you wish!)

The same image is labeled both Penn Tower and Penn Centre just to confuse and tease us further.
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