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Old June 16th, 2007, 09:51 PM   #1201
CorrND
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Originally Posted by jtsnewo56 View Post
I don't see any chance for a MLB team, not with 6 or 7 teams currently within about a 4 hour drive of Indy. MLS is a possibility, but I don't see it being supported here. I can't see NHL coming to Indy under any circumstance, and the AFL has already come and gone. I'd imagine that we are probably not going to see any more top tier professional sports teams in Indy in the next 10 years. JMO.
I agree that Indy will never get an MLB but not because of the proximity of teams. After all, there are also 6 NFL franchises within about 4hrs of Indy and that's not an issue.

The problem is that it's much easier for a small metro to support an NFL franchise. If you figure about 60k tickets for 8 home games, that's only about 500k tickets sold per year.

MLB on the other hand is 81 games with an average of about 30k people per game. That's about 2.5M tickets, which is much harder to do in a small metro. Even if you go by the least attended franchise is baseball, Tampa Bay, they're still selling about 14k tickets per game, which works out to about 1.2M tickets. The Indians get about 500-600k fans per year, so Indy could probably match Tampa Bay's ticket sales for an MLB team. But then again, there's no reason to expect that would translate into fielding a team any better than Tampa Bay.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 10:27 PM   #1202
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I agree. Having an NFL franchise is almost like having a two smaller franchises.

I could see MLS being supported here though. Soccer is gaining popularity and Indy could probably support a team in as little as 5 years.

However, I do covet cities with MLB teams. The sheer number of games makes stadium investments worthwhile and provides a consistent attraction for a good portion of the year, with mutliple games held each week.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #1203
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A MLB team or a mass transit system (light rail/train).

If Indy secures either or both I will be a resident for life.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 11:46 PM   #1204
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From an article in this week's IBJ about the Indiana Convention Center expansion:

"Indianapolis ranks 32nd in the nation in square footage available at its convention center, according to Los-Angeles based trade publication Tradeshow Week. With the extra space, it will jump to 10th if no other expansions come online in the interim."

I had no idea we would jump that much in capacity rankings. That's huge.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:02 AM   #1205
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How is atleast the facade not signifigant? It was built right after the civil-war. I dont see how it will hurt the development to restore the structure. Downtown has so few structures from this era, and yet the pen tower project requires demolition of it, when its not even certian if it will be of as much signifigance? I know, Moochie, that you see no point in preserving it, as you dont see it in many buildings. But this structure should be preserved, is the parking lot not big enough for them to use?
I personally think that when this Penn Tower building gets an ok, that the demolished Omega should at least have some of the bricks cleaned and put into the building. The building is of some historical thought, being when it was built. The no news part of this tower is strange. I wonder if the type of building it will be, condos, and hotel, and such, are keeping all involved quiet, to not have others extend their projects?
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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:02 AM   #1206
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i really like the ibj articles they are very interesting
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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:23 AM   #1207
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Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
From an article in this week's IBJ about the Indiana Convention Center expansion:

"Indianapolis ranks 32nd in the nation in square footage available at its convention center, according to Los-Angeles based trade publication Tradeshow Week. With the extra space, it will jump to 10th if no other expansions come online in the interim."

I had no idea we would jump that much in capacity rankings. That's huge.
We were either number ten or close before the latest surge in convention center expansions. Nineteen cities have built new facilities over the last five years, including D.C. and Pittsburgh. 34 cities have expanded their convention centers and 44 more cities are building new or expanding existing facilitities.

http://www.poynter.org/dg.lts/id.2/aid.77492/column.htm

I think they are making a big mistake by not expanding even more. The new facility was not designed to be expanded vertically and future horizontal expansion wilol be very difficult.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:38 AM   #1208
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The new facility was not designed to be expanded vertically and future horizontal expansion wilol be very difficult.
I don't understand that either (no vertical expansion). It does seem like a poor use of land. I know I was disappointed when I first saw that the new plans (because it's a primarily 2-story structure). The Convention Center is now landlocked except for the small lot on across from The Luke and Pan Am Plaza, which is where the IC was supposed to go. Hmmm...
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Old June 17th, 2007, 02:02 AM   #1209
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I don't understand that either (no vertical expansion). It does seem like a poor use of land. I know I was disappointed when I first saw that the new plans (because it's a primarily 2-story structure). The Convention Center is now landlocked except for the small lot on across from The Luke and Pan Am Plaza, which is where the IC was supposed to go. Hmmm...
I imagine it'd be pretty hard to build a convention center much higher than 3 or 4 levels. A lot of conventions require easy access to loading docks to bring in large displays, etc. I suppose you could have massive freight elevators, but that would start to be a bitch to deal with if it was an excessively tall structure.

I wonder what the tallest convention center in the US is? Everyone I have seen has been roughly 3 levels.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 02:04 AM   #1210
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Originally Posted by benjaminooo View Post
A MLB team or a mass transit system (light rail/train).

If Indy secures either or both I will be a resident for life.
Well light rail is significantly more likely (just a matter of when they start construction) than getting an MLB team (at least in the next decade). So looks like you might be a resident for life afterall.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 03:32 AM   #1211
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I imagine it'd be pretty hard to build a convention center much higher than 3 or 4 levels. A lot of conventions require easy access to loading docks to bring in large displays, etc. I suppose you could have massive freight elevators, but that would start to be a bitch to deal with if it was an excessively tall structure.

I wonder what the tallest convention center in the US is? Everyone I have seen has been roughly 3 levels.
I'm not sure what the tallest is, but D.C., New York's Javits and Pittsburgh are all 4 levels. If you can deliver displays to the fourth level of a convention building, I'm not sure it would make it any harder to deliver to the sixth or eight floors.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 04:41 AM   #1212
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My bad crime experience--former Indy resident

Hey everyone. This was my one and only experience with personal crime in Indianapolis. Fortunately nothing else even remotely frightening ever happened--unfortunately, this incident was, in my opinion, pretty bad.

Scenario: I lived downtown. Right downtown--the Harness Factory Lofts, at Georgia and Pennsylvania... right next to Conseco, Howl at the Moon, Jillians, BW3's, etc. etc. etc.

I came home from work around 4:30pm on an average, but quite rainy, Tuesday afternoon. I'm accustomed to all sorts of characters roaming the streets, so I think absolutely nothing of the two young men walking leisurely down the alley behind my building. I remember they were walking away from me but turned around and saw my car when they heard it. I turned right, into my parking lot, and chose a spot about eight spaces away from where they were walking (estimation only). Gathered my things, got out my umbrella, turned off my car, got ready to get out. Got out of my door, and turned around. Gun in my face. I mean, like, six inches from my face. They were both screaming, "Give me the keys, give me your ******* keys!" So, of course, I did. I threw them. Had my phone and wallet with me, in which they were completely uninterested (thankfully). I ran into my building, told my building manager, called the police.

Stupid things on my part: I should have kept a closer eye on them. I should have checked my mirrors before I opened my door. I should have perhaps even done a couple blocks until they weren't in the area anymore. Long story short, I should have been more skeptical.

In my defense: It was broad daylight, in the middle of downtown Indianapolis. The odd thing was that NO ONE was out on the street, because it was very rainy. And when I say I'm used to all shapes, sizes, and colors of people walking that alley, I mean it. The parking lot in which I parked is also used for Conseco games, and bar parking in the evenings. Had it been dark out, I NEVER would have just pulled in and acted like everything was fine. Also, they honestly appeared to have been walking away from me.

The worst part of the whole situation was the IPD. Of course I filed a police report, and the officer was COMPLETE *******. He didn't even believe me for the first ten minutes I was there. He just kept saying over and over, "We haven't had a carjacking in downtown in twenty years." (Which I didn't believe.) Finally he conceded that it in fact happened, and told me--and I'll never forget this--"Well, we'll go ahead and file this report, but there's no way we'll ever find these guys... you can just kiss your car goodbye and be smarter next time."

Now, I'm all for honesty. And in retrospect, I agree that the chances were VERY slim that they'd ever find the guys. But COME ON. Give me a little consolation, for christ's sake.

They never found the guys, in spite of what I consider to be pretty detailed descriptions I gave of both of them. They did, however, find my car, almost three weeks later. It was completely undamaged other than that the ignition had been ripped out, and the interior was horribly muddy. I got a new ignition, went to town on the inside with power scrubbers, ad drove it for a year until I had to sell it to move to San Francisco.

I considered sharing my story with press, but decided the negative news wasn't what Indy needed... and honestly, it probably wouldn't have accomplished anything.

Luckily, it seems these things happen very rarely in Indy. Or perhaps, as in my case, we just never hear about them...
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Old June 17th, 2007, 05:51 AM   #1213
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That's ****ed up, sorry to hear about that. Actually, I read a story in the Star a few weeks ago that talked about how car jackings have spiked in Indianapolis by several thousand. I can't imagine a scarier situation, especially one in which you're so helpless and basically have to give in.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 06:48 AM   #1214
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Bad Crime Experience

Fortunately, I have not had any. And I lived downtown for 15 years. I did have a couple of thugs accost me on the westside years ago - wanting dope. When I said I didn't have any and turned my head, one of the guys sucker-punched me and then ran to his car.

Like a few other people on here, I'm from the near-eastside. Most of the areas close to Michigan and Rural scare me - even in the daylight. Since I drive a nicer car, I wouldn't even consider driving through the side streets.

If it isn't the worst area for crime in the city, the near-eastside is number two or three. It gets somewhat better when you get close to downtown, although Woodruff Place has always been a hotbed for theft. The problem is, all of the activity near downtown is shifting crime further East. The Little Flower area and areas immediately South are definitely in decline - maybe not full-blown decline - but a lot like the area around Michigan and Rural in the late 80's, early 90's.

There is an online Indy crime incident viewer at:
http://imaps.indygov.org/cvc

The caveat is - it only shows the last 90 days of incidents - they don't want to scare the public. And of course they assume you know what police beat you live in and don't give you a map of the police beats. jacerw99, your old hood is police beat DT32.

I have the seen the 2005 and 2006 crime incidents for EVERY crime in the city - and it ain't pretty. There is no concentration on the near-eastside. It's EVERYWHERE!.

And to the previous comment about the near-eastside being totally rehabbed in the next 20-30 years. That will never happen. The area is too big and there is just too much housing stock. Fountain square has been undergoing renovations for over 20 years and it isn't even remotely close to being done.

Food for thought - if every house were rehabbed on the near-eastside, where would all of the current undesirables and less-fortunate go? Most likely further east, near northeast and near southeast (Fountain Square). And the cycle starts over. The same way it has for decades. The problem isn't sub-standard housing, the problem is with education, poverty, drug-addicton, etc. We also keep trying to force poor people into home ownership when they can't afford it.

Creating wealth is a big part of the equation.

Last edited by IndyBob; June 17th, 2007 at 04:54 PM.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 05:21 PM   #1215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyBob View Post
Fortunately, I have not had any. And I lived downtown for 15 years. I did have a couple of thugs accost me on the westside years ago - wanting dope. When I said I didn't have any and turned my head, one of the guys sucker-punched me and then ran to his car.

Like a few other people on here, I'm from the near-eastside. Most of the areas close to Michigan and Rural scare me - even in the daylight. Since I drive a nicer car, I wouldn't even consider driving through the side streets.

If it isn't the worst area for crime in the city, the near-eastside is number two or three. It gets somewhat better when you get close to downtown, although Woodruff Place has always been a hotbed for theft. The problem is, all of the activity near downtown is shifting crime further East. The Little Flower area and areas immediately South are definitely in decline - maybe not full-blown decline - but a lot like the area around Michigan and Rural in the late 80's, early 90's.

There is an online Indy crime incident viewer at:
http://imaps.indygov.org/cvc

The caveat is - it only shows the last 90 days of incidents - they don't want to scare the public. And of course they assume you know what police beat you live in and don't give you a map of the police beats. jacerw99, your old hood is police beat DT32.

I have the seen the 2005 and 2006 crime incidents for EVERY crime in the city - and it ain't pretty. There is no concentration on the near-eastside. It's EVERYWHERE!.

And to the previous comment about the near-eastside being totally rehabbed in the next 20-30 years. That will never happen. The area is too big and there is just too much housing stock. Fountain square has been undergoing renovations for over 20 years and it isn't even remotely close to being done.

Food for thought - if every house were rehabbed on the near-eastside, where would all of the current undesirables and less-fortunate go? Most likely further east, near northeast and near southeast (Fountain Square). And the cycle starts over. The same way it has for decades. The problem isn't sub-standard housing, the problem is with education, poverty, drug-addicton, etc. We also keep trying to force poor people into home ownership when they can't afford it.

Creating wealth is a big part of the equation.
I dont even think they could afford to move to those areas(as places like fountian square are getting more-so expensive) the only way to go is further out. The undesirables(like drug addicts, criminals, etc) will be pushed farther out(which is a good thing) but, the less fortunate will aswell,(which is bad)
its bound to happen.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 05:57 PM   #1216
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I dont even think they could afford to move to those areas(as places like fountian square are getting more-so expensive) the only way to go is further out. The undesirables(like drug addicts, criminals, etc) will be pushed farther out(which is a good thing) but, the less fortunate will aswell,(which is bad)
its bound to happen.
It's sort of happening already. Parts of Post Rd past 465 are getting to look pretty bad.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 06:39 PM   #1217
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You all are describing the European model, where old city centers are kept pristine for the rich, the artsy, and the tourists, while the poor live in suburban ghettos.

If you've ever taken a taxi into Paris from CDG, you know what I'm talking about. There's a large swath of rough looking banlieus before you get the Musee de Paris (as I like to call it).
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Old June 17th, 2007, 07:17 PM   #1218
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C'est Vrai! (It's True)

I have noticed that too... When i went to France & Paris for my spring break trip i was rather shocked. Yet, it makes sense to me too... That you keep the central areas clean & uppity... Yet, im sure you could @least integrate SOME mix of incomes?

Oh by the way... Paris was SOOO lovely! I'm deff. moving there when i get enough money. I'd just LOVE a condo on La Seine! (their central river)
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Old June 17th, 2007, 07:24 PM   #1219
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It's sort of happening already. Parts of Post Rd past 465 are getting to look pretty bad.
yah, those vynyl siding suburbs they build now, are going to be the bad neighborhoods of tommorow. Its odd. Soon the entire older area of Indianapolis will be the wealthy, touristy section, and the outer skirts will be considered the bad parts(except places like Carmel)
Its an interesting thing happening here.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 08:23 PM   #1220
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Exactly!

Quote:
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yah, those vynyl siding suburbs they build now, are going to be the bad neighborhoods of tommorow. Its odd. Soon the entire older area of Indianapolis will be the wealthy, touristy section, and the outer skirts will be considered the bad parts(except places like Carmel)
Its an interesting thing happening here.
It depresses me as well. Those soulless "vinyl villages" i mean im pissed at both. The buyers yet more so the developers. As i leave for Fort Wayne soon i can only imagine all the new ones i'll see off of I-69. I mean hell, they look like effin shoe boxes! So sad...

And i know what i sad was "politically incorrect" but quite honestly i dont give a shit!
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