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Old June 20th, 2007, 09:22 PM   #1281
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Originally Posted by moochie View Post
I had the same concerns. I suppose there's still plenty of room for a transit line, particularly if it's elevated.
Ahhh, elevation! Damn, I always forget that that's the easiest answer to ROW issues.

ablerock, you said they made repeated mention of "multi-mode transportation". That makes me think that future mass transit is part of the design mentality for the 16th St. realignment, yes?
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Old June 20th, 2007, 09:25 PM   #1282
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I don't like the idea of shifting 16th St. south and disengaging it from the Speedway. Also, it looks to me like they are pretty much just going to fill the newly created triangle in with parking lots.
It's a great idea. 16th Street is a death trap for pedestrians during race event days. The side walk is about 4' wide on both sides. This new area will provide a staging zone and public gathering area that the track is sorely lacking.

The SRC will announce a timeline soon. They said it will be just as bold as this plan. Both the president of the SRC and the IMS alluded to the fact that the track's 100 year anniversary is in 2009 and big investors are waiting in the wings. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of this done by then.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 09:39 PM   #1283
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I just love how the track really is right there at 16th and Georgetown. I call it the Wrigley Field effect. It's like this big facility just plopped down in the middle of a city neighborhood. I like how the Speedway engages with the streets. To me, pulling the streets away really disengages the Speedway from its surrounding context and makes it like any other stadium that is set apart from its surroundings by large buffers and parking. IMS is a very unique facility and I'd hate to see this change. In the grand scheme of things though, this is a pretty minor complaint.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 10:15 PM   #1284
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Originally Posted by moochie View Post
I have it on good authority that efforts are being made again to put retail into the new garage at 120 E. Washington (City Park) probably Adobo grill. http://www.adobogrill.com/

thank god. I hate seeing parking garages downtown without retail.
Its embarrasing when tourists, walk through one of the main downtown streets, and have to look at parked cars and concrete walls at street level.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 02:24 AM   #1285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorrND View Post
Ahhh, elevation! Damn, I always forget that that's the easiest answer to ROW issues.

ablerock, you said they made repeated mention of "multi-mode transportation". That makes me think that future mass transit is part of the design mentality for the 16th St. realignment, yes?
Yes. The designer was very deliberate in his encouragement of multi-mode support. He basically said the area can't survive, and Main St. (and the rest of the redevelopment) will not become the destination Speedway residents want it to be, without major support for all modes of transportation (he even briefly mentioned skateboarding).

One specific example was the B&O trail. My father, an avid rails-to-trails activist, practically jumped out of his seat when they announced their plan to accelerate conversion of the railbed. It's been a major headache for him and other trail enthusiasts on the westside. Speedway can be very hesitant when it comes to such things.

On the detailed map that I couldn't get a picture of, there was a large IndyGo hub/facility designated just east of the 500 motel on 16th st. The designer mentioned future rail/mass transit possibilities and making sure to include them in the development.

Think of this way, prior to this process, Speedway would have balked and spit at the thought of a train coming into their neighborhoods. Because of this planner and the SRC, they now see the importance of it and will began to agressively pursue its implementation.

The planner has really earned the respect of the SRC, and in turn, the Speedway Town Council. This basically gets him a golden ticket into the Speedway family.

Speedway can be very conservative, but they rally together when they agree on something and get excited. This planner has done a great job of convincing the STC and the SRC that good architecture, high-density development, being pedestrian friendly, and supporting multi-mode mass transit are good things.

(As a side-note, you guys should have seen all the clucker's heads looking at one another and nodding in agreement during his presentation. ...as if they'd been contemplating urban development their whole lives. It was hysterical.)

I'm super excited about the possibilities for my home town. I can't wait 'til concrete details emerge!
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Old June 21st, 2007, 02:29 AM   #1286
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Arenn, I look forward to reading a detailed analysis/your thoughts about the plan on your blog in the future. (hint, hint) :-)

Although, I wish their was more material available for you and other people to look at. The four images they have up now aren't doing the plan justice.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:44 AM   #1287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
I'd also like to add that repeated keyphrases for the night were "high-density" "mixed-use" "timeless & spectacular architecture" "monumental" "pedestrian-friendly" "greenery," "recreation" "multi-mode transportation," "connectivity," and "neighborhood pride." All could be considered cliche, but at least they're shooting high.

They also proposed what basically amounts to a Speedway version of the Indianapolis Cultural Trail. The planner, a graduate of Ball State, really did a good job of convincing the SRC to incorporate all modes of transportation. Considering the median age of the audience was +50. He did a great job of selling more progressive planning ideas to a conservative audience. The knockout punch was at the end when he showed a before/after shot of Main St. The audience gasped. I'd bet 95% of the audience fully supports the plan.
That is great. If the public is behind it and engaged, the more likely this plan will come to fruition. It would be great to see this plan substantially complete by 2011, the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:50 AM   #1288
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There is a lot of under-developed land in Speedway, and that aerial image shows just how bad it is. This plan, if it comes to fruition, will do wonders to revitalize inner city Indianapolis and bring the magic of DT Indy into other parts of the metro area.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:52 AM   #1289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unionstation13 View Post
If Speedway can be revitlized like that, that will probably start a chain of development between speedway and downtown. The white river near speedway has peotential. It has a beautiful view, and if it had something like the canal sides, pedestrian bridges, etc, it would really be a great place to live. The whiteriver is so underused it seems. A restruant looking down the whiteriver, near downtown would be great.
I said the same thing awhile back in the last Indy development thread. The White River is a jewel. It is a shame that Indy turns its back on the river instead of embracing it as it should. The near West side across the river from IUPUI could be a great midrise residential area serving students and young professionals.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 06:01 AM   #1290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
I said the same thing awhile back in the last Indy development thread. The White River is a jewel. It is a shame that Indy turns its back on the river instead of embracing it as it should. The near West side across the river from IUPUI could be a great midrise residential area serving students and young professionals.
Seriously.. I would love to see development hugging both sides of the river. It just feels really empty on the other side.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 08:18 AM   #1291
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I always somehow get drawn into reading the horrid indystar.com forum posters... People there seem to hate the round-about saying "thats too confusing!! Everyone will hate it!! What a dumb idea!!" when these people are from say... martinsville and likely will not use it. I like it
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Old June 21st, 2007, 11:50 AM   #1292
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Horray again for the cultural trail. Why do they call it a cultural trail btw? I wish Indy would just designate some actual bike lanes! This is a step in the right direction, but come on! I've cursed the canal "projects" since they were proposed. I want more people downtown, but I think we (a city actually looking toward the future) should think about giving one lane to the bikers! Look at delaware, meridian, east, college, illinois, delaware, etc... they don't need these lanes! Most of them are three to four lanes each! Thats insane. Give us (bikers, unionstation13!) a reason to come back/stay! I live in Denver now, I love it, but I love Indy way more. I've always said that if every cool/hip/forward thinking person didn't leave Indy for a "better" place" (me included, but I'm coming back) then it would have enough people around to make a difference. Until Indy gets light rail, a better bus system (it doesn't have to be light rail, I'm a bus rider by choice! Denvers light rail isn't much to clap about, they don't even service my neighborhood (cap. hill. One of the most densely populated neighborhoods in the city) would do wonders. I lived in inner-city Indy for around four years. I've never seen such a lousy bus route/schedule in my life! Step it up Indygo! Add some new routes, more park and rides, and for God's sake, let the buses run later! My 15 and 0 routes in Denver run 24/7! I'm not saying that Denver is better in any way, but they do have better transit. I also realize that Denver is a bit larger than Indianapolis. I just think that as much as other cities can learn from us (convention, downtown vibrancy, revitalizing destroyed urban neighborhoods) we can also learn from them (urban/suburban transit) without any feeling of "copying".

p.s. can't remember why I brought up the canal.
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Last edited by Resident; June 21st, 2007 at 01:33 PM.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:29 PM   #1293
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cwilson and unionstation13 ******* own! I just love the way you two think!
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Old June 21st, 2007, 03:09 PM   #1294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
Horray again for the cultural trail. Why do they call it a cultural trail btw? I wish Indy would just designate some actual bike lanes! This is a step in the right direction, but come on! I've cursed the canal "projects" since they were proposed. I want more people downtown, but I think we (a city actually looking toward the future) should think about giving one lane to the bikers! Look at delaware, meridian, east, college, illinois, delaware, etc... they don't need these lanes! Most of them are three to four lanes each! Thats insane. Give us (bikers, unionstation13!) a reason to come back/stay! I live in Denver now, I love it, but I love Indy way more. I've always said that if every cool/hip/forward thinking person didn't leave Indy for a "better" place" (me included, but I'm coming back) then it would have enough people around to make a difference. Until Indy gets light rail, a better bus system (it doesn't have to be light rail, I'm a bus rider by choice! Denvers light rail isn't much to clap about, they don't even service my neighborhood (cap. hill. One of the most densely populated neighborhoods in the city) would do wonders. I lived in inner-city Indy for around four years. I've never seen such a lousy bus route/schedule in my life! Step it up Indygo! Add some new routes, more park and rides, and for God's sake, let the buses run later! My 15 and 0 routes in Denver run 24/7! I'm not saying that Denver is better in any way, but they do have better transit. I also realize that Denver is a bit larger than Indianapolis. I just think that as much as other cities can learn from us (convention, downtown vibrancy, revitalizing destroyed urban neighborhoods) we can also learn from them (urban/suburban transit) without any feeling of "copying".

p.s. can't remember why I brought up the canal.
These are some pretty good suggestions that make sense as far as I can tell. It's going to take quite a bit of time, money, and effort invested into the IPTC to get any kind of transit going here unfortunately because people are so obsessed with their cars.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:07 PM   #1295
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I have it on good authority that efforts are being made again to put retail into the new garage at 120 E. Washington (City Park) probably Adobo grill. http://www.adobogrill.com/
Fantastic news. We need a real mexican place in downtown. How Acapulco Joe's stays in business, I don't know. This recent influx of new food options in a wide variety of cuisines is going to do wonders for downtown. I went to BARcelona Tapas for the first time last night and while it's incredibly loud in there, the food is very good. Unfortunately the very large outdoor seating area isn't open right now due to some permit issue. Once India Garden opens up next door and they get the outdoor seating re-opened, that should be a pretty hoppin' corner.

Finally some options other than steak!
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:30 PM   #1296
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It would actually be relatively inexpensive to start providing much better transit service in Indianapolis. The problem is that no one is interested in doing that because it doesn't involve grandiose expenditures on sexy light rail lines and contracts for politically connected firms.

Start with the #17 College. I would tweak the route a bit, including extending it up Keystone to the Woodfield Crossing and Keystone Crossing complexes. There are already 15 minute headways at rush hour and 30 minute headways off peak, making this the best route in the city such as it is.

15 minutes headways is the maximum for really usable transit, and 10 minutes is the practical max. (Longer than that, and you can't just show up to catch the bus or train but need to consult a schedule - no good). I suggest upgrading this service to 5-7 minute headways at peak period with 10 minute off peak, and maybe some lower grade service in the late evenings/early mornings. Hours of service should be from 5am to midnight or 1am.

Combine this with aggressive marketing, partnerships with firms, etc, TOD encouragement, real bus stops, etc., and you have the makings of real bus service.

With the strong destinations along this route, the existing commercial nodes, multiple areas with difficult parking, and the large residential component, if this route isn't successful, then you should really have to ask yourself what you think light rail in a much less hospitable environment would bring. It is also a great test case for TOD because a) there already is effectively TOD commercial and b) if you can't densify this corridor, how can you possibly believe that the hard core burbs will allow TOD?
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:37 PM   #1297
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Addition to my previous post, here's a list of restaurants that recently opened, are being worked on or rumored:

Capital Grille - 40 W. Washington (open)
Harry and Izzy's - 153 S. Illinois St. (open)
Cabo’s Mexican Grill - 132 N East St. (open)
Center Stage Cafe - 970 Ft Wayne (open)
BARcelona Tapas - Ohio and Delaware (open)
India Garden - next door (working, opening late July)
?? (Mexican) - Prospect and Virginia (working)
unnamed Caribbean - 123 N New Jersey (working)
Taste of Tango (Argentinian) - 36 E. Washington St. (working)
Weber Grill - 10 N. Illinois St. (opening in July)
various/Buggs Temple - 337 W. 11th St. (working, opening sometime this summer)
Ta Ta's (Cuban) - 137 W. Market St. (rumor)
McAlister’s Deli/Applebee's - 143 N Illinois St. (old India Garden location, rumor)
Adobo Grill - 120 E. Washington St. (rumor)

Also:
BW3s renamed Bada Boomz
745 Pub reopened as Mass Ave Pub

Last edited by CorrND; June 21st, 2007 at 05:52 PM.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:39 PM   #1298
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How many steakhouses can downtown Indy support? I am astonished at the quantity and that there hasn't been a big shakeout.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 05:33 PM   #1299
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I'm Back....

Actually, I haven't been "gone" so to speak, just took time off to move. During the move, my PC quit and I am just getting to the internet....first time in a week!


Lots to read and catch up on. I hope to make the meet on the 7th.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 05:45 PM   #1300
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... ?? (Mexican) - Prospect and Virginia (open) ...
Are you sure this is open? Last time I went by (less than a week ago) it looked to still be a long way from opening. They've had the "opening Muy Pronto" sign in the window for about a year! I'll believe it's open when I see them actually serving food.

For authentic Mexican in the area don't overlook the Tex-Mex in the Crystal Flash gas station on East and Prospect (?). I believe that Wednesday is $1 taco night (at least it used to be, I haven't been there in a while).
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