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Old July 3rd, 2007, 11:23 PM   #1561
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cjf, that commuter rail study was mandated by the state legislature this year. I don't expect anything exciting to come of it.
Poo.
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Old July 4th, 2007, 02:39 AM   #1562
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The forum gather was scheduled for this Saturday, 7/7 at 10am on the east side of the Monument. The weather should be great if a little warm. I'm ready if the rest of you are.
I will be there!!
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Old July 4th, 2007, 02:47 AM   #1563
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From July 3, 2007 Indianapolis Star:



First Indiana building for sale
Downtown tower, which houses bank HQ, should draw big interest

By Jeff Swiatek

One of Downtown's largest office towers, First Indiana Plaza, has been put on the market by its New York City owner.

The 28-story building at Pennsylvania and Ohio streets is expected to command interest from institutional buyers and other big-money investors that have made commercial real estate a hot commodity in the past several years.

Crown Properties, headed by real estate developer Davar Rad, bought the 426,000-square-foot tower in about 2001 and is "entertaining offers" for the building, said John Miles, a local spokesman for Crown.

"He just thinks it's a good time to put the building on the market," Miles said.
Rad is known for hosting his First Indiana tenants at an annual all-expenses-paid golf outing at the Brickyard Crossing course at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

The building is named for tenant First Indiana Bank. A CVS drugstore and Sahm's restaurant also are located there. A list price wasn't revealed.
In another sign that the Indianapolis office building market remains hot, two of the Woodfield Crossing office buildings, in the 8400 block of Keystone Avenue, have changed hands.

Premier Properties USA of Indianapolis bought the dual buildings, which total 400,000 square feet, from local developer Duke Realty Corp. last month, said Duke spokesman Joel Reuter.

Premier is expected to make the buildings part of a proposed mixed-use development, which it calls Woodfield Crossing, that is planned south of 86th Street and Keystone Avenue. The Duke buildings weren't being actively shopped, but Premier asked real estate firm CB Richard Ellis to approach Duke and broker a sale, said Jenna Rowe, a spokeswoman for CB Richard Ellis.

"They kind of worked out a valuation for the property . . . and they signed a deal," she said.

Duke did not disclose the sale price. Premier did not return a call for comment.

Top-quality suburban office buildings are currently selling for $125 to $150 a square foot in the Indianapolis area, according to CB Richard Ellis. That would give the two-building Woodfield Crossing deal a value of $50 million to $60 million.

The development proposed by Premier is slated to include a theater, a luxury hotel, condominiums and a natural foods store. Premier has revealed only sketchy details about the project on its Web site.
What caught my eye in the article was how the Woodfield proposal at 86th and Keystone seems more likely to become a reality. That is great news!! Indy will definitely have a second CBD if this project gets built. The view from I-465 will be AWESOME!!
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Old July 4th, 2007, 02:48 AM   #1564
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Poo.
This is Indiana. Anything "progressive" will take 20+ years to become a reality, if it is lucky enough to get approved.
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Old July 4th, 2007, 03:11 AM   #1565
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What caught my eye in the article was how the Woodfield proposal at 86th and Keystone seems more likely to become a reality. That is great news!! Indy will definitely have a second CBD if this project gets built. The view from I-465 will be AWESOME!!
yah, the view of suburbian sprawl will be beautiful.
this areas people invest in now, will be the bad abandon suburbs of tommorow.
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Old July 4th, 2007, 09:46 AM   #1566
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Poo.
This article has some uplifting news about mass transit (from IBJ):

Legislators to look at mass transit’s potential
Review is timely for backers of a northeast transit line


If a downtown-to-Fishers mass transit system ever happens, its first stop—figuratively, at least—will be at the Statehouse.

There, at least one legislator could be influential in getting the state’s help toward building a system that could cost upwards of $1.5 billion, depending on the type of transit vehicle used.

Rep. Terri J. Austin, D-Anderson, who chairs the House Roads and Transportation Committee, plans to convene a summer study committee in August that will look at the state’s future in mass transit.

“I really want us to begin to increase the state’s support and assistance to mass transportation,” Austin said.
The state likely would have to grant authority for local governments to assess a regional transit tax. Such local support could cover half the cost; the other could come from federal taxpayer funds.

Unfortunately for transit advocates, over the years, “the state has been somewhat reluctant to help advocate the notion of mass transit,” Austin said.

Currently, the northeast corridor transit system initiative is a regional effort led by the Indianapolis Metropolitan Planning Organization and the Central Indiana Transit Authority.

Later this year, officials will reveal the preferred route and vehicle type for what would be the first rapid transit system in the region since the last interurban cars wobbled out of downtown 66 years ago. Having leaders like Austin on board will be essential.

While they pretty much know where to sink the spikes, officials still aren’t sure exactly how they’ll pay for the $500 million to $1.5 billion route from downtown to Fishers and, perhaps, to Noblesville.

While it’s easy to get an acknowledgement from municipalities in the region that northeast-side highway congestion is worsening, getting locals to support a tax for a transit line their residents may never use is probably going to be a tough sell.

That sort of thinking has helped stymie funding over the years for the city’s only real transit operation, the IndyGo bus system. Unlike systems in cities such as Columbus, Ohio, IndyGo doesn’t have the resources of a regional tax to help it fund new routes into outlying counties.

“This issue is not a local Indianapolis issue. This is a local and statewide issue,” said Gilbert Holmes, CEO of the Indianapolis Public Transportation Corp. The bus system covers a sliver of its operating budget from state sales tax—the rest comes from federal and city taxes and fare box revenue.

The legislative study committee will look at transit potential statewide.

The committee, the result of legislation Austin brought forward during the last session, will look at federal funding, review mass transit in other states, and recommend ways to use mass transit to mitigate congestion, boost economic development and improve quality of life.

“Mass transit has got to be part of our future,” Austin added.

The bulk of the state’s rapid transit funding comes from the state’s Public Mass Transportation Fund. Most of that goes to bus lines, including IndyGo.

During the last session, legislators approved an increase in the percentage of state sales tax going to the fund, to 0.076 percent from 0.0635 percent. The increase should produce $35 million a year. That could mean an additional $2 million in state support for IndyGo. It may use it to increase the frequency of service.

Even if some of that could be diverted to the northeast corridor transit system, it would be a drop in the bucket.
Rather, the Legislature might be called on to give central Indiana municipalities the authority to levy a local tax. Before then, the Central Indiana Transit Authority would need to authorize construction of the northeast transit line.

Transit planners have discussed everything from a system built mostly by local funds to one that also uses federal dollars. Competition for federal funds is growing more difficult, though, with several cities contemplating new or expanded transit systems.

Austin said she wants to look in detail at what other cities are doing. Denver, for example, has more than 14 miles of light rail already and has plans for at least 67 more miles.

Austin pointed to estimates that rapid transit brings Denver more than $4 billion in economic impact already, everything from trackside developments for housing to commercial buildings.

“We have to look at [mass transit] in economic development terms,” she said of the debate in Indiana.

Already, her hometown colleague, Sen. Tim Lanane, D-Anderson, has called for the state to study a commuter transit line between Indianapolis and Muncie. Besides relieving highway congestion and boosting ecnomic development, both are making a case for transit as a quality of life issue.

While not offering any details, Austin said state leaders need to think creatively about funding, perhaps looking at the public-private partnership model Gov. Mitch Daniels has championed for building highway projects.

At the same time, Austin has urged caution, saying any such arrangement would require plenty of public scrutiny




A People-Mover style system would be pretty phenomenal. I had no idea operating costs would be THAT low. I think that would make people in Indianapolis see mass transit as efficient; something that simply runs on the street (opposed to having its own right of way) would make people think "this is no better than me riding a bus or sitting in my car."
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Old July 4th, 2007, 11:05 PM   #1567
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A People-Mover style system would be pretty phenomenal. I had no idea operating costs would be THAT low. I think that would make people in Indianapolis see mass transit as efficient; something that simply runs on the street (opposed to having its own right of way) would make people think "this is no better than me riding a bus or sitting in my car."
Just FYI:The Mayor of Carmel has gone on record supporting the automated-guideway system. (I think he knows) for this to succeed in Indiana it will have to be seen as luxurious and as safe as possible. Most suburbanites on the north-side (or anywhere in Indy) aren't going to get out of their personal transportation pods unless it is similar in feel to a first-class flight (without the food & beverage, of course). ;-) The advantages of mass transit will have to be spun in their favor, not just the environmental benefits and congestion relief.

In a nutshell, if this does get off the ground, it's essential that it be as attractive as possible.

I'm also glad that we've had the Clarian People Mover Debacle to learn from. If AGT is indeed the chosen mode, it will at least be superior to Clarian's sytem.

I encourage everyone here to write or call our government representatives to show your support for mass transit. Every little bit helps, and it seems that mass transit is starting to gain some momentum. Mayor Peterson stated mass transit would be a major platform of his next term (granted, pre-crime worries). I'm very optimistic about its potential here. :-)
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Old July 5th, 2007, 12:15 AM   #1568
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City delays MSA decision

The City of Indianapolis is delaying its decision for the future of the former site of Market Square Arena.

Two developers want to turn the area into a magnet for downtown dwellers, but city officials say they need more time to study the plans submitted in April.

Deputy Mayor Steve Campbell said instead of a decision in early July, one will come in late summer.

Campbell said, "It's more important for us to get it right then to get it done quickly."

Referring to the proposals, he said, "They're complex and complicated because these are big plans for this part of downtown."

One group wanting to develop the four-acre parcel at Alabama and Market is Marketability Partners. They proposed a $150 million development that includes housing, office space and retail, with a Target store along Washington Street.

The other team, the Towers on Market, proposed two glass towers with apartments, condos and retail - an investment of $130 million.

In April Jerry Kosene of Kosene & Kosene said, "We firmly believe if these two towers are built, they will sell, we've had good experience downtown."

Campbell calls both proposals very viable. He describes the decision process similar to the city bidding on the Super bowl. He says planners are working with both teams to make sure they put their best proposals forward.

Campbell said "Whatever stands [there], we have to be good with that for 50, 60 or 70 years even longer than that."

The city is also a bit cautious after initial plans for luxury high-rise condos fell through after the first developer chosen failed to pre-sell enough units to break ground.

This time developers must have the money in hand. Both say they do, but both have also said they need some city help to get it done.

Campbell said tax abatement or some other type of public assistance is likely "because if you don't use tax abatement, then it just sits here as public land and doesn't make any revenue, so when you do use it or other tools, it eventually starts to pay off."

Campbell added it's hoped the winning team can still break ground by early 2008.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=6747346
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Old July 5th, 2007, 12:19 AM   #1569
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yah, the view of suburbian sprawl will be beautiful.
this areas people invest in now, will be the bad abandon suburbs of tommorow.
while I have mixed feeling about this project due to the fact of drawing people away from downtown, it is a good thing that it is being built inside Indianapolis and that it is replacing an existing building.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 12:52 AM   #1570
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MSA Delayed - Ugh.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 01:12 AM   #1571
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....it is a good thing that it is being built inside Indianapolis and that it is replacing an existing building.
My thoughts exactly. This development is IN Indianapolis.

DT has plenty of proposals and projects to keep it a viable destination for tourists and residents.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 01:14 AM   #1572
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There is an abandoned railway that parallels Allisonville Road all the way from Noblesville to Fall Creek Parkway. This is the PERFECT route for Indy's first mass transit line. The ROW is there, meaning the cost of construction would be far less.

There would need to be an extension of the line built from Fall Creek to the CSX railline along Mass Avenue.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 06:00 AM   #1573
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A People-Mover style system would be pretty phenomenal. I had no idea operating costs would be THAT low. I think that would make people in Indianapolis see mass transit as efficient; something that simply runs on the street (opposed to having its own right of way) would make people think "this is no better than me riding a bus or sitting in my car."
People need to question these construction costs, especially in public meetings. There are no good numbers for AGT, because there are NO transit systems in the world that are based solely on AGT. AGT are used primarily for short point-to-point connections, like the Clarian People Mover. The per mile cost of the Las Vegas AGT on the strip was approximately $100 million per mile.

It's good that a "few" legislators see mass transit as important. But given the legislature's proven track record of incompetence, I don't see anything happening. As usual, it will be the rural hay seeds voting this down because "ain't gonna hep me none". The immediate problem is in the metro area. People on the south side of Indy won't support a northeast line because it won't benefit them. Ahhh, Indiana, the capital of parochialism.

If the State wanted to make a real economic development statement, it would construct high-speed rail lines from Indianapolis International Airport to our water ports. These line could move both passengers and freight. Additionally, spurs could be run to other population centers. Imagine connecting IU, Purdue, Ball State, ISU/Rose Hulman, and Notre Dame to Indianapolis, thus providing easy access to a wide variety of graduate programs. And the State already has the mechanism in the Indiana Ports Authority, which is allowed to issue bonds for projects anywhere in the state.
This would take real big picture vision - and we would be asking the same legislature who didn't think property tax reform was important this year.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 07:56 AM   #1574
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IndyBob, there are examples of real AGT systems. The 14 line in the Paris metro is AGT. I believe that the Singapore system is as well.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 04:55 PM   #1575
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It's good that a "few" legislators see mass transit as important. But given the legislature's proven track record of incompetence, I don't see anything happening. As usual, it will be the rural hay seeds voting this down because "ain't gonna hep me none". The immediate problem is in the metro area. People on the south side of Indy won't support a northeast line because it won't benefit them. Ahhh, Indiana, the capital of parochialism.
A while back, I took a look at some of the possible mass transit routes around town and interestingly, a south side line would easily have the largest number of natural/major stops:

Lilly
Garfield Park
University of Indianapolis
Southport
Greenwood Park Mall (park and ride)
Greenwood

This route would also be much cheaper since it's about half the length of a downtown-Noblesville line. Dangle this in front of the southsiders as a future proposition to get support for a NE mass transit line now.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 04:59 PM   #1576
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Interesting article in the Star this morning about relocating the cemetary near I-465 and I-69 in order to widen the road there. Cemetary relocations extremely rare in Indiana. The article also says construction will start in 2012.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...AL18/707050423
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Old July 5th, 2007, 05:07 PM   #1577
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I am encouraged by the City's decision to delay the MSA announcement! To me, this says that the City may actually be looking to get this thing right! My gut tells me that they may try to create a hybrid of both projects, taking the best options from both to create a great development. I just hope that there is a large number of apartments (that the average person can afford) and unique-to-downtown retail.

As for the Mass Transit...Anderson/Madison County just may become as improtant a player in this as Carmel/Hamilton County. I know that the City is due to elect a mayor this year and linking Anderson to Muncie and Indy via as many means as possible is getting a lot of "talk time" by the candidates and City Council. Face it, Anderson has struggled for so longh and if they can get a piece of the northeast side pie, they will do all they can.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 05:20 PM   #1578
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Cory, the days of places like Anderson and Muncie being able to go it alone are over. They need to get themselves as connected and embedded to the Indianapolis metro area as they can. Look at what happened in places like Elgin, Joliet, and Aurora, Illinois in the Chicago area. They, they still have their struggles, but when they became more than just standalone industrial cities they were able to tap into the growth of the Chicago area.

I haven't seen a lot of indication that any of these places care to look for tighter linkages, though. In anything, the opposite as your story of how Madison County petitioned to be removed from the MSA illustrates.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 06:01 PM   #1579
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I am encouraged by the City's decision to delay the MSA announcement!
I'm glad you're encouraged, and I hope you're right. My gut reaction was that the City has a favorite developer (not based on merit) and wants to give them time to play catch-up. In other words, provide a chance for them to rip-off the best points of the other proposal now that they're public knowledge. I disagree with the Deputy-Mayor's comparing MSA decision to the Super Bowl site selection process. If a city came to the NFL under-prepared, they'd say tough luck.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 06:05 PM   #1580
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Transit article from July 5, 2007 Indianapolis Star:

High Speed Rail May Link Midwest

With financial help from feds, states could build lines to connect Chicago, Indy and Cincinnati

By Zach Dunkin


Kelly Allen is a senior regional manager for Duke Realty who drives to Cincinnati 15 to 20 times a year on business and would love to make the trip by train.

Allen, 29, an East Coast native, grew up riding trains to New York City and Washington.

"I know it would be an absolute plus for any business or leisure traveler to get that kind of service here," Allen said. "You can get a lot of work done on the train. And you can wind down from your day on the way home."

Allen might someday get her wish. A bill pending in Congress would provide millions of dollars to Indiana and other states to improve high-speed train service. The Senate Commerce Committee unanimously approved the bill in April; it now heads to the Senate floor for debate, quite possibly by the end of July, prior to the summer recess.

President Bush also has proposed $100 million for state rail grants in his budget for 2008.

Included on the list of proposed routes that would benefit: a stretch running from Chicago to Indianapolis to Cincinnati.

It would mean quicker routes for Hoosier travelers seeking alternatives to driving or flying.

With trains operating at speeds up to 110 mph at various spots along the corridor, travel times on the proposed routes would be clipped in half from typical rail.

Total travel time between Chicago and Cincinnati would be about four hours, including stops in Indianapolis, Gary and Lafayette, according to the Indiana Department of Transportation.

"This could be a godsend to both the tourism industry and the business community," said Dennis Hodges, founder and executive director of the Indiana High Speed Rail Association. Hodges, Merrillville, has lobbied for 15 years to bring high-speed rail service to Indiana. "It would make Indiana and Midwest destinations more affordable and more accommodating."

According to the Midwest Regional Rail System, a cooperative effort involving Amtrak, the Federal Railroad Administration and nine states including Indiana, the investment could be lucrative in Indiana.

The organization's 2003 study shows that Cincinnati to Chicago by way of Indianapolis would be one of the more profitable of all high-speed rail lines in the country. "Among the top 10," said Alex Metcalf, president of Transportation Economics & Management Systems in Frederick, Md.
Each state is responsible for footing the bill for its own rails. With Indiana accountable for a 319-mile stretch in the route linking Chicago to Cincinnati, the state's participation is needed to link those cities.

Is Indiana ready?
Yes. And no.

The infrastructure is here -- Indiana has more federally designated corridors for high-speed trains than any other state.

But the state has yet to do an environmental impact study. Without it, the funds will be on hold. Those Midwest Regional Rail System states that have already done the study -- such as Illinois and Wisconsin -- will be first in line for the resources, said Metcalf. Others will have to play catch-up.

"It's a money thing," said Andrew Dietrick, INDOT communications director. "It's an expensive and time-consuming proposition to do an entire environmental impact study for a corridor of that size."

A bill approved this year by the Indiana General Assembly, could aid the process. The bill, sponsored by Rep. Terri J. Austin, D-Anderson, asks the state to devote more time and resources to mass transit by establishing a joint study committee on mass transit and transportation alternatives.
INDOT estimates that corridor development through Indiana would cost slightly more than $1 million per mile.

The bill also would give INDOT the authority to enter into an agreement with a private firm to construct and operate mass transit systems.

"The ability to involve a private entity may be the best and only way to make such a project economically feasible and provide this service to Hoosiers," said state Sen. Robert N. Jackman, R-Milroy, a longtime proponent of passenger rail service.

As far as actual demand for such service, Hodges admitted, "We don't know.
"I guess you could call it the 'Field of Dreams' theory. If we build it, they will come."
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