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Old July 7th, 2007, 03:34 AM   #1621
hoosier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
Official Logistics:

Skyscrapercity.com Forum Indianapolis Meet-Up
Saturday, July 7, 2007 @ 10:00am EDT
East Side of the Soldiers and Sailors Monument

You won't be able to miss me because I'm planning to wear my brown and white spectators. (So I hope we don't tramp through too much dust).
Sounds good. I will be there. I will be wearing a white Colts hat. Should we bring posters with our usernames written on them to make sure we all find one another?
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Old July 7th, 2007, 03:40 AM   #1622
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Slow Day

Bose move to Chase Tower is official

The long-rumored move for Indianapolis law firm Bose McKinney & Evans is a done deal. The firm plans to take 111,000 square feet of space in Chase Tower, a big expansion over its current 80,000-square-foot space in First Indiana Plaza. The departure of one of that building’s largest tenants is a big blow for owners who are trying to sell. The move is scheduled for September 2008. The law firm, along with its public affairs division, will have a total of about 250 employees in Chase Tower.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 04:04 AM   #1623
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Bose move to Chase Tower is official

The long-rumored move for Indianapolis law firm Bose McKinney & Evans is a done deal. The firm plans to take 111,000 square feet of space in Chase Tower, a big expansion over its current 80,000-square-foot space in First Indiana Plaza. The departure of one of that building’s largest tenants is a big blow for owners who are trying to sell. The move is scheduled for September 2008. The law firm, along with its public affairs division, will have a total of about 250 employees in Chase Tower.
Well, this should reduce the vacancy rate downtown overall though.

If Lucas Oil would just move its corporate headquarters to Indianapolis the DT office market would be in much better shape.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 04:18 AM   #1624
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did anything go in where the simon HQ was
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Old July 7th, 2007, 04:40 AM   #1625
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Originally Posted by moochie View Post
WTF?

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/pro...702&ID=7117076

July 2, 2007 3:08 PM ET
Suttle Mindlin chosen for $150M Indianapolis project

Suttle Mindlin said Monday that it was retained to design a master plan for a $150 million mixed-use development in downtown Indianapolis.

The two-block development is located at the Market Square Arena District, according to a release. The project includes a high-rise condominium and office tower, low rise residential building and retail space, including a 190,000-square-foot unnamed big-box retailer located at the top of a public parking garage.

Suttle Mindlin is headquartered at 345 Marshall Ave., Suite 102, in St. Louis.
While browsing their website, I have to wonder how a professional design firm could manage to misspell "Indianapolis".

Anyway, here is the render I've retrieved from their website. I have honestly never seen this before.
image hosted on flickr
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Old July 7th, 2007, 06:22 AM   #1626
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Originally Posted by NaptownBoy View Post
While browsing their website, I have to wonder how a professional design firm could manage to misspell "Indianapolis".

Anyway, here is the render I've retrieved from their website. I have honestly never seen this before.
image hosted on flickr
This is the Mansur proposal.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 06:42 AM   #1627
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Originally Posted by Indywatch View Post
I'm about ready to start opposing things too. Just got my property tax bill yesterday with a 60% increase over last year. I'm all for progress downtown in in the outlying areas but not when big businesses are getting tax abatements and we are paying for it. Yes the value of my downtown condo has been reassessed higher, but I find it hard to believe that with the glut of new condos being built downtown that I'd be able to get top dollar for my place. A couple of years ago when they did all the re-evaluations my taxes went up. We were told older homes would most likely go up, newer homes would probably go down. My condo was built in 2000... so fairly new. My taxes went up. And now again 60% more on top. I wonder if these tax bills are gonna seal Petersons re-election fate. People of Indiana dont like taxes. SORRY! Just venting.
I wish I were that lucky. My taxes more than tripled (a 236% increase). I live in Meridian Kessler in a Bungalow close to 49th & College. Not on Meridian or Penn or Washington Blvd. The good news is that my exemptions and homestead credit were mistakenly left off, so my bill will probably only increase 100%.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 06:55 AM   #1628
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On average about 50% of your tax bill goes to the school district, which in your case is IPS and is controlled by an independent elected school board. IPS has a much higher tax rate than many other districts. While tax abatements can erode the school tax base and the general tax base, they certainly don't account for the majority of the whopping property tax increase.

In part, IPS does (and all of Center Township) does have to struggle with a tax base hurt by a large number of properties being tax-exempt--e.g. IUPUI, all the state owned government buildings, federal buildings, etc. However, the real problem is that IPS simply has a disporportionate number of high-cost students--that is students who are either learning disabled or require bilingual education (federal and state rules require school districts to incur the expense to accomodate learning disabled and bilingual students). IPS also has a huge number of old buildings which need a lot of maintenance--and many simply need to be replaced.

In other school districts (such as Hamilton Southeastern, etc), property taxes are increasing because of soaring enrollment and lavish building projects. While Marion County was hit very hard with property tax increases--people outside Indianapolis aren't aware (or overlook) that individuals in counties across the state are seeing WHOPPING property tax increases and are just as angry.

Aside from the school district taxes, Marion County (and other counties) are saddled with very large expenses for state-mandated child welfare programs.

This is not the entire picture about property taxes, but it explains a nice chunk of why property taxes are soaring.

The state needs to assume the cost of both public education and child welfare programs. The state should moderately increase state income taxes to raise the funds to assume these expenses. This would result in everyone across the state seeing their property tax bills go down by about 50% or more. Graduated income taxes are a more fair method of taxation because they tax people on their ability to pay and tax people on actual wealth, not imputed wealth. Many people, especially the elderly, purchased their homes years ago, and could not afford to buy their houses now and they simply do not have the funds to pay high propery taxes. If taxes go up too high, then the only option for many people is to sell their house. Also, the supposed "market valuation" for property tax assessment often doesn't actually reflect true fair market price. Moreover, it is based on the assumption that you can quickly convert a house to cash; and furthermore, it does not take into consideration the depressing effect on the housing market of many people selling to escape higher property taxes.

I truly believe this is a situation the General Assembly needs to fix--in a special session this year. I am pretty sure the Governor will call one. The Legislature really blew it big time by not taking concrete steps to alleviate the income tax burden.
With over 60 taxing districts in Marion County and the extra burden which is placed on Center Township, the time is right to complete Uni-Gov (which really should have been called Mini-Gov). Now that the Republicans have pretty much lost control of Marion County, they need to stop blocking government consolidation efforts. The Mayor realizes, just like the past Republican Mayor did, that you need to be able to control the schools and libraries.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 07:16 AM   #1629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
WTF?

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/pro...702&ID=7117076

July 2, 2007 3:08 PM ET
Suttle Mindlin chosen for $150M Indianapolis project

Suttle Mindlin said Monday that it was retained to design a master plan for a $150 million mixed-use development in downtown Indianapolis.

The two-block development is located at the Market Square Arena District, according to a release. The project includes a high-rise condominium and office tower, low rise residential building and retail space, including a 190,000-square-foot unnamed big-box retailer located at the top of a public parking garage.

Suttle Mindlin is headquartered at 345 Marshall Ave., Suite 102, in St. Louis.
What the hell?
1) I hate that project, I like the other 10X better
2) I thought Indianapolis was waiting until next month to announce. They better not have chosen this deisgn.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 07:56 AM   #1630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
WTF?

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/pro...702&ID=7117076

July 2, 2007 3:08 PM ET
Suttle Mindlin chosen for $150M Indianapolis project

Suttle Mindlin said Monday that it was retained to design a master plan for a $150 million mixed-use development in downtown Indianapolis.

The two-block development is located at the Market Square Arena District, according to a release. The project includes a high-rise condominium and office tower, low rise residential building and retail space, including a 190,000-square-foot unnamed big-box retailer located at the top of a public parking garage.

Suttle Mindlin is headquartered at 345 Marshall Ave., Suite 102, in St. Louis.
Oh No. Please. No. I really can't take much more of this.

Moochie, I hope your contact was right. I was starting to look forward to seeing Kosene's proposal get built.

I thought the decision was a no-brainer. I guess I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up. :-(


Not only did they spell "Indianpolis" incorrectly, this is literally how the great minds behind Suttle Mindlin write:

"Browning Day Mullins Dierdorf Architects Interesting concept for urban revitalization in which we create a success "street experience" by bring the foot traffic of a big box retailer to the mix"

Is that a sentence?

If Mansur's proposal is chosen, that really lights a fire under my ass to leave this city. DAMMIT! I JUST WANT ONE GOOD ARCHITECTURAL DECISION MADE BY THIS CITY! %&*$! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?

Don't answer that last question. ;-)

See everyone tomorrow. :-)
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Old July 7th, 2007, 08:17 AM   #1631
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As a last-bit effort we can email the mayor and remind the office that K&K is better - I emailed last week.

I did a little looking around at the K&K site, and I must have been asleep at the wheel when we talked about the De Soto project on New York St, but I really like it. I studied the floorplans, and if I had the money, I think I would like to live there.

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Last edited by billionbucks; July 7th, 2007 at 08:50 AM.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:11 AM   #1632
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Honestly, with the info that we have, I don't think we can say one project is definitively better than the other. I mean, none of us have even seen a site plan. Yes, the Kosene project is taller but is it really better? I think the massing may be better on the Mansur project. Also, having a downtown Target store would be a big boost to the downtown market.

My big concern is that the Target not sprawl. If they propose a single-story store i will throw a huge fit. Also, they better not build low-rise buildings on Washington Street. Washington St. is our main street and deserves tall, slender towers.

I do like that Kosene decided to go with a modern design; however, it has never sparked my imagination and seems a bit soulless.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:25 AM   #1633
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After reading that story again, I’m concerned by a couple things. The first is the size of the big-box… Isn’t a 190,000sf store a bit large? It would be fine if they choose to do that on 4 floors but somehow I doubt that is in the cards. Secondly, the story said, “two blocks.” In my mind that means that the development will probally sprawl all the way over to Washington St. Consequently, we will probably have a big box on Washington… That could be very bad.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 10:03 AM   #1634
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Well if they are saying a 190'000sf store, it would at least be two-levels. A single-story store on an Indianapolis city block would be a maximum of 165,000sf. From the rendering, the Target would be on the south side of Market and would be on the block that is bound by Market to the north, New Jersey to the east, Washington to the south and Alabama to the west.

It is likely that the big-box would take up the whole block and potentially front the entire Washington Street frontage. In that case our only hope would be that the city would require that the building be mixed-use and that the facade be broken up skillfully. It would also help if the building had heavy-duty footers under at least part of the structure allowing for a taller tower in the future. It would be a waste to have a two story building sprawling across an entire block downtown, especially when that block fronts on Washington Street.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 03:54 PM   #1635
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Until I see more detailed plans for the MSA site I can't say which plan would be better.

I don't think we have to worry about a big, single story, box store. The info release clearly states that the 'Big Box' will be on top of a public parking garage. I am sure it will be a two story Target with some ground level retail at the bottom floor of the parking garage.

I personally find both projects very interesting and just hope one of them start construction soon. Let wait and see the final design and site plan before we start crapping on the project.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 04:14 PM   #1636
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Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
I wasn't aware of it. Thanks for the link.

I like it. But I would, I'm a modernist. :-)

Highland Stacks:




as much as I like new architecture coming in, metal walls like that, BLEEEEEEEH, use glass or stone or something, BUT ****** TIN WALLS?
Its hick with a mix of modern! How is this supposed to be good architecture?
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Old July 7th, 2007, 04:20 PM   #1637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
WTF?

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/pro...702&ID=7117076

July 2, 2007 3:08 PM ET
Suttle Mindlin chosen for $150M Indianapolis project

Suttle Mindlin said Monday that it was retained to design a master plan for a $150 million mixed-use development in downtown Indianapolis.

The two-block development is located at the Market Square Arena District, according to a release. The project includes a high-rise condominium and office tower, low rise residential building and retail space, including a 190,000-square-foot unnamed big-box retailer located at the top of a public parking garage.

Suttle Mindlin is headquartered at 345 Marshall Ave., Suite 102, in St. Louis.
are they ****** RETARDED???
The kosene proposal would have helped downtown economically so much more, and the design was refreshing for the area! MY GOD.
Probably because it looked too "futuristic" or something.
bleh, bleh, BLEEEEH. Now we are going to end up with some ****** suburbian target that is going to be so hidiouse it will draw people AWAY, R THEY GODDAMN MORONS?????
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHH
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Old July 7th, 2007, 04:23 PM   #1638
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Damn, the State legislature should just have you go down to the statehouse and fix the problem . That was a great and insightful post. I agree with you 100%.
hahahah, you are all complaining about taxes, and all that has happened to me, is my bills have slightly gone up, and I live in the downtown ring.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 07:36 PM   #1639
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Umm, so I went to the contact page for K&K about the MSA confusion and got pretty much a nothing reply:

Thanks for your email Kyle and your support of Kosene's development and design for the Market Square site.

I am not familiar with the press releases that you have mentioned and unable to comment on their validity. I am also unable to comment on the validity of the release you attached.

My position at Kosene and Kosene does not allow me to gain first-hand knowledge about some of the specifics of potential future projects. I'm sorry that I can not provide you with more information at this time, but I do appreciate your concern and support of our developments.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old July 7th, 2007, 10:40 PM   #1640
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Great Meet-Up!!!

It was great getting to meet you guys at the meet-up today!!! Now we will be able to put faces with some of the user names.
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