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Old July 22nd, 2007, 12:29 AM   #1861
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Which one is that? The condo one? Also is that student tower going up? So 300 N. would be the 261 project? Thanks
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=...napolis-in-usa
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 12:33 AM   #1862
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Penn Centre is really just waiting city approval, financing isn't the issue.
My point was that there are five proposed projects with a hotel component. Not all will get financed.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 12:45 AM   #1863
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Hopefully not the height. And hopefully a big-wig will throw his or her weight around like a Trump type. Hopefully they will not come up with their area studies to delay it.
I think height will be an issue. You are talking about the same group that forced the developer of 757 Mass. Ave to reduce their building height by one or two stories because it was "out-of-scale" with the other buildings.

Penn Centre is in the Wholesale District where the tallest buildings in the immediate vicinity are in the 9-10 story range. This will definitely be a huge blip on the radar screen. I see the Mayor deferring to the IHPC, much like he did with the convention center hotel committee.

And...there might be a height issue because of the heliport.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 02:29 AM   #1864
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Congratulations to Prince/Alexander for making an ugly design absolutely hideous.
Ain't that the truth.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 04:34 AM   #1865
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Arenn, why does Indiana skimp on the pavement for its major highways?
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 04:40 AM   #1866
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As far as all of these mid-rise proposals are concerned, which ones are going to happen, likely to happen, or up in the air?

My stratification is as follows:

Going to Happen:
JW Marriott Hotel Complex
3 Mass Ave

Likely to Happen:
MSA Site Redevelopment
Meridian and 18th Street condo/hotel tower
Penn Centre

Up in the Air:
Merrill Street condo/hotel tower
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 04:42 AM   #1867
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So the groundbreaking for the JW Marriott hotel complex isn't going to happen until 2008? When the final renders were released the developer mentioned a fall 2007 groundbreaking.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 08:17 AM   #1868
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These are all proposals at this point, until the financing is secured and the ground is broken. But it is nice to all of the proposals - this is reminiscent of the mid 80's to early 90's period. Congratulations to Prince/Alexander for making an ugly design absolutely hideous.
I'm speechless; this building's design is just terrible! With each new rendering we are ushered into a lower level of architectural hell.

Are we trying to wrap our downtown in a cocoon of pure ugly? This tower to the south, the convention hotel to the west, the building at 16th and Meridian and the student housing to the north. When will it end?
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 08:48 AM   #1869
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I am excited about the amount of activity that we are seeing downtown! In addition, there are a number of well designed projects going in. These include the 8-story 707 and 3-Mass Ave and the Lockerbie Park development.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 10:18 AM   #1870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyBob View Post
I think height will be an issue. You are talking about the same group that forced the developer of 757 Mass. Ave to reduce their building height by one or two stories because it was "out-of-scale" with the other buildings.

Penn Centre is in the Wholesale District where the tallest buildings in the immediate vicinity are in the 9-10 story range. This will definitely be a huge blip on the radar screen. I see the Mayor deferring to the IHPC, much like he did with the convention center hotel committee.

And...there might be a height issue because of the heliport.
No offense, but you seem needlessly pessimistic about this project, when we seem to hear (backed up by credible evidence) that it should go ahead without much trouble.
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http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-01-fmt.csv
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 10:21 AM   #1871
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Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
So the groundbreaking for the JW Marriott hotel complex isn't going to happen until 2008? When the final renders were released the developer mentioned a fall 2007 groundbreaking.
I believe I read that site prep will start by the end of 2007 (which will be extensive), before actual construction begins in the beginning of '08.
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Insecurity and the Midwest, what would they do without each other?

Indianapolis: Fastest growing metro (over 1,000,000) in the Midwest. Growth rate of 7.04% between 2000 and 2005.

http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-01-fmt.csv
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 10:27 AM   #1872
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I think that it will take big corporation, with a firm expansion, or headquarters to get that done. Anyone remember what Bank One had to go through when announcing their intentions with the city in the late 1980's?
Wellpoint is already a massive Fortune 500 company (#35 I believe), maybe some years down the road the company would invest in a new office tower.

It'd be nice if Lilly had a monumental tower, but they're too busy ruining the southside of Downtown with a suburban office campus.
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Insecurity and the Midwest, what would they do without each other?

Indianapolis: Fastest growing metro (over 1,000,000) in the Midwest. Growth rate of 7.04% between 2000 and 2005.

http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-01-fmt.csv
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 05:58 PM   #1873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
As far as all of these mid-rise proposals are concerned, which ones are going to happen, likely to happen, or up in the air?

My stratification is as follows:

Going to Happen:
JW Marriott Hotel Complex
3 Mass Ave

Likely to Happen:
MSA Site Redevelopment
Meridian and 18th Street condo/hotel tower
Penn Centre

Up in the Air:
Merrill Street condo/hotel tower
Don't forget the Grain Dealer's tower up north on Meridian. When will we recieve word on what will happen there? Also, how tall is the Children's Hospital expansion? will that make an impact in the IUPUI area?

I have also been following development in the Indy area, though I've been posting on another forum. I'd love to see more office relocation in the downtown area, but it seems as if the north side is recieving most of the expansion in areas such as tech jobs. You'd think with everything downtown has to offer with hotels/attractions, more companies would want to concentrate there. I know I read recently in IBJ that one of the tech companies will be adding 600-700 jobs over the next few years, but that's all in an office park in the NW side. At least some of the government offices are moving over into some of the vacant space now.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 06:16 PM   #1874
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Quote:
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It'd be nice if Lilly had a monumental tower, but they're too busy ruining the southside of Downtown with a suburban office campus.
Seriously! The fact that they don't is baffling to me. They should build a tower on south street on one of those hideous parking lots.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 06:22 PM   #1875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbage08 View Post
Don't forget the Grain Dealer's tower up north on Meridian. When will we recieve word on what will happen there? Also, how tall is the Children's Hospital expansion? will that make an impact in the IUPUI area?
It's going to have a huge impact. It's only 10 stories but will be an amazing 210ft tall. Nothing is even close to that height around there, so it will probably feel even taller.

That height is according to emporis. 21ft/floor seems like a lot, even for a building like a hospital with all the extra facilities they need, but there must be something official out there for emporis to have it up.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 06:26 PM   #1876
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Thanks for the interstate update Arenn. I will be exiting Torrence Ave as my brother lives in Lansing.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 06:31 PM   #1877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbage08 View Post
Don't forget the Grain Dealer's tower up north on Meridian. When will we recieve word on what will happen there? Also, how tall is the Children's Hospital expansion? will that make an impact in the IUPUI area?

I have also been following development in the Indy area, though I've been posting on another forum. I'd love to see more office relocation in the downtown area, but it seems as if the north side is recieving most of the expansion in areas such as tech jobs. You'd think with everything downtown has to offer with hotels/attractions, more companies would want to concentrate there. I know I read recently in IBJ that one of the tech companies will be adding 600-700 jobs over the next few years, but that's all in an office park in the NW side. At least some of the government offices are moving over into some of the vacant space now.
The Meridian and 18th hotel/condo project is the one that redevelops the old Grain Dealers Insurance Building.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 08:49 PM   #1878
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The only think we'll see out of Lilly (tower wise) is the 12 story thing they have now... other than that they seem to like the lowrise office centers more. They had two additions in 1994, so I'd bet they're done for now with the main tower.
http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=292629

Never the less, it is the tallest tower on the southside... so far.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 08:57 PM   #1879
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Is the waterpark still being built with the JW? I hadn't heard anything about it when the second proposal came out - unless I wasn't reading it closely.

Also, I was looking into the PennCenter proposal, where exactly is the parking lot that will not be used?
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Last edited by billionbucks; July 22nd, 2007 at 09:02 PM.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 08:59 PM   #1880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityfan View Post
No offense, but you seem needlessly pessimistic about this project, when we seem to hear (backed up by credible evidence) that it should go ahead without much trouble.
My previous comment was directed at development proposals in general. They are just that - proposals. And I was specifically talking about the five that include a hotel component. It is very unlikely that all five projects will be built, given that lenders will be hesitant to finance that many hotel rooms in a smaller downtown market that is expecting an additional 2,000 rooms in two years. I did not single out Penn Centre as doomed. After JWM, I believe Penn Centre has the best chance. And I hope it gets approvals and starts construction before the Grain Dealer's and Prince/Alexander projects.

But I do not think it's height is going to sail through IHPC for a number of reasons:
  1. It is in the Wholesale District and the proposed height is out-of-scale with the surroundings.
  2. IHPC required 757 Mass. Ave to reduce the number of floors along Mass. because it felt it was out-of-scale with surrounding buildings. It also made the developer change the radius of the building's corner. The reduction of floors forced the developer to remove one floor of parking, thereby causing the removal of green space behind the building for surface parking.
  3. One IHPC Commissioner was on record as saying that the MSA site should be 10 stories maximum.
  4. The current IHPC Administrator vehemently opposed the last high-rise project proposed for the Wholesale District (Bob Born's Union Station condos).
  5. The site might be affected by the downtown heliport's airspace, which is under FAA control. This affected the proposed height of the Grain Dealer's project because of the 200' height limit imposed by the Methodist Hospital heliport. The downtown heliport is THE reason that Wellpoint did not build taller.
  6. And a myriad of other goofy things the IHPC has been known to do.

Do I want this project to happen?

Yes.

Do I want to see the height limited?

No.

I would actually like to see a taller building.
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