Chennai Projects Update thread - II

[goodman]

I think both the commuters and the govt are to be held responsible for this sorry state of affairs of the buses. this occurs in every part of india and TN needs to change its attitude.
I have come across people who think that the govt is anti people when the bus fares are increased by a mere 50paise, but they wouldn't think twice to buy cinema tickets in black.
The govt also thinks why they should give these people any real luxury, when they can just tweek up old junked tin cans into luxury rides.
In between these two the reasonable thinking man suffers.

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by goodman

I think both the commuters and the govt are to be held responsible for this sorry state of affairs of the buses. this occurs in every part of india and TN needs to change its attitude.
I have come across people who think that the govt is anti people when the bus fares are increased by a mere 50paise, but they wouldn't think twice to buy cinema tickets in black.
The govt also thinks why they should give these people any real luxury, when they can just tweek up old junked tin cans into luxury rides.
In between these two the reasonable thinking man suffers.

you are absolutely right.

[Tranquil]

Originally Posted by Subra

Cabinet nod for Chennai Maritime University.

Further info on Indian Maritime University:


December 15, 2006
World-standard university dream nears reality

(Lloyds List Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge) THE idea of opening an umbrella institution for maritime studies has been on the agenda of India's shipping ministry and the Director-General of Shipping for several years. But some impediment or other has prevented it becoming a reality.

However, it finally appears that the Indian Maritime University, the first central institution for seafarers in the country, will become operational in Chennai by the end of the month.

The institution, being built on the pattern of the World Maritime University in Switzerland, will attempt to ensure that seafarers' education in India is on a par with international standards.

India is a leading supplier of top-quality personnel to the global shipping industry and at present supplies around 77,000 seafarers to the world market, compared with 200,000 by the Philippines.

China has also become a competitor, although the Indians' proficiency in English continues to give them the edge.

Nevertheless, India badly needed a body that would grade the students churned out by nearly 100 government-owned and private maritime training centres. The IMU will fulfil that need.

The shipping ministry has procured 300 acres of land for the university on the Chennai-Mahabalipuram Road, a few kilometres from the National Maritime Academy, formerly the National Institute of Port Management, and earmarked Rs2bn ($43m) for its construction.

'The Indian Maritime University Bill 2006 is awaiting the approval of the Lok Sabha (lower house of parliament),' says Tuticorin Port Trust chairman N K Raghupathy, a senior member of the committee constituted to ensure that the ambitious project sees the light of day.

'The Bill will almost definitely come up for discussion during the present winter session of parliament. As soon as the draft Bill is passed and becomes a statute I anticipate the start-up of the university within a month, and the integration of the NMA into it.'

A preliminary architectural design has been prepared for the IMU building and the project will be awarded as soon as the Bill is passed.

Until the building goes up the classrooms and facilities of the NMA will be used for seafarer training.

'We will be adopting the model of the World Maritime University, which has already agreed to collaborate with us,' says Mr Raghupathy, who recently returned from a trip abroad to examine top seafarer training facilities.

'We have seen the International Maritime University at Malm in Sweden and our committee has recommended that we sign a memorandum of understanding with it.

'We saw the International Maritime Law Institute in Malta, which also comes under the umbrella of the International Maritime Organization and has also agreed to collaborate with us.'

When it is finally operational, the IMU will have regional campuses in Mumbai, Kolkata and Visakhapatnam and will oversee the functions of the state-run Lal Bahadur Shastri College of Advanced Maritime Studies and Research, two Marine Engineering Research Institutes in Mumbai and Kolkata, and the TS Chanakyain Mumbai.

'Private institutes will also be affiliated to it,' says Mr Raghupathy. 'It will be responsible for issuing certificates for all degree, post-graduate and certificate courses in different aspects of maritime training.'

The IMU will serve a dual purpose. Apart from being an affiliating university, it will be a teaching body and eventually all the courses now run by the Director-General of Shipping in Mumbai will come under it.

'In fact, the plan is to pass on to the IMU all regulatory functions that are under the DGS since there will be better quality assurance,' says Mr Raghupathy.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..etc..

Ref.: http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/12/15/2173357.htm

[satish]

Originally Posted by Fusionist

satish, can I ask you just one question. Are you posting these just to contradict anything you perceive that is critical of Chennai/TN or are you serious ?

On this part, I was serious. These routes are privatized. And these private buses are not all volvos. I suppose whatever demand is there for these volvos are fully satisfied by private buses. that's why i said SETC needn't go in for expensive volvos. they might as well focus on deprived people. and if private buses provide competive rates, government should exit such routes completely.

about MTC: most of view points seem like individual perceptions about looks of buses. i personally find MTC buses no different from ones in bangalore. both these are cheap versions. only difference is, in chennai windows are more open and covered with non-glass material. in bangalore it is half covered with glass. chennai we all know is humid and we need more air. so such a design with less glass and more window openings is required. otherwise, i find the buses similar.

someone says bangalore has better public transport than chennai and doesn't substantiate it by getting into facts. it seemed rubbish to me and so i confront it.

ultimately they need to serve the needs of the common man. you guys talk about volvos, whereas i see need for regulated share autos or mini-buses.

[sudheeshnairs]

Originally Posted by satish

Even SETC needn't go in for volvos. All these routes are privatized. They would take care of addressing any gaps in service levels. In my opinion, SETC can stop running any buses on these routes.

satish, talking about the inter state services like Chennai-Trivandrum, they are not privatised. The private services are not operating as 'line services', but as 'sight seeing trips'. So they have to give higher taxes at both states. This is the condition for other sectors like Bangalore-Trivandrum also..The demand for travel is such that there are scores of VOLVOS operating between the Bangalore & TVM.

Karnataka SRTC have VOLVO Iravat service between Bangalore & TVM, I have travelled by that, and found it comfortable. KSRTC deserves a pat for having the largest fleet of VOLVOs, I think it is more than 150 buses, followed by APSRTC's 101+ strong 'Garuda' fleet.

We used to say several years back that TN buses were good, that time Thiruvalluvar and later JJTC, and then RGTC came. But now atleast the buses running in the Chennai-Trivandrum sector of SETC is decades behind when compared with that of KSRTC volvos.

And my personal feeling is that BMTC buses are good. And they are enhancing their sexy fleet of Volvos. It is very much useful, esp the professional crowd. If a guy misses his company pick up, he can travel in comfort from city to ITPL.

Nowadays everything is mostly market driven. If there are takers for comfortable travel in Volvos, it shall be sustained and expanded. Bangalore has showed this.

[MaduraiSelvam]

Originally Posted by Tranquil

Further info on Indian Maritime University:

December 15, 2006
World-standard university dream nears reality
Ref.: http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/12/15/2173357.htm

Thank god they decided for Chennai. It used to be Hyderabad to get things from Maritime and Oceanography facilities without any reason even though its far away from Sea.

[Tranquil]

Originally Posted by MaduraiSelvam

Thank god they decided for Chennai. It used to be Hyderabad to get things from Maritime and Oceanography facilities without any reason even though its far away from Sea.

The Government of India received requests from some States including that of Gujarat for setting up of Maritime Universities in their States. After taking into account various factors for locating a Maritime University, action for setting up an Indian Maritime University at Chennai with regional campuses at Kolkata, Mumbai and Visakhapatnam as announced by the Finance Minister in his budget speech (2006-07) is under way.

This information was given by the Minister of Shipping, Road Transport and Highways, Shri T.R. Baalu in a written reply in the Rajya Sabha.....

Re.: http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=23264&kwd=

[kannan infratech]

Reg Metro buses in Chennai:

Why privatisation is not allowed, whereas all over Tamil Nadu, private and Govt buses are competing?

Why only the chrompet fabrication facility (of erstwhile PTC) is given the orders for bus body building (with limited vintage equipments), whereas we have world class body building units of TVS, Ashok Leyland or Bangalore based companies and Karur based private units?

Why people of Chennai is opposing even 50 paises to 1 Re raise so vehemently, whereas they spend much more on other avenues?

Why people are mute spectators to this sorry state of affairs?

[ranga]

Originally Posted by goodman

I think both the commuters and the govt are to be held responsible for this sorry state of affairs of the buses. this occurs in every part of india and TN needs to change its attitude.
I have come across people who think that the govt is anti people when the bus fares are increased by a mere 50paise, but they wouldn't think twice to buy cinema tickets in black.
The govt also thinks why they should give these people any real luxury, when they can just tweek up old junked tin cans into luxury rides.
In between these two the reasonable thinking man suffers.

Yes u have hit the nail on the head.A few decades back TN had one of the best public transport system. It was the envy of many states. Passenger transport run by the famous TVS in madurai was the forerunner for the best practices in the public transport in TN.Even in the 80's the public transport in chennai (PTC) was profitabily run with regular replacement of overused buses.The colour of the buses were more pleasing to the eyes.Since early 90's decay set in due to non revision of fares and increasing the free travel to many sections of the society.In the competitive politics of populism and the generous freebies prevailing in TN now people with reasonable mind will have to suffer silently. The MTC in chennai is incurring huge losses year on year with accumulated losses breaching more then Rs 1000crores up to the end of the preceding fiscal.It is ironical that the bus transport system is in such a bad shape in a place were the Automobile industry is strong. Come on Chennai /TN pull up your socks get back to the days of glory.

[satish]

Originally Posted by sudheeshnairs

satish, talking about the inter state services like Chennai-Trivandrum, they are not privatised. The private services are not operating as 'line services', but as 'sight seeing trips'. So they have to give higher taxes at both states. This is the condition for other sectors like Bangalore-Trivandrum also..The demand for travel is such that there are scores of VOLVOS operating between the Bangalore & TVM.

Oh, I didn't know that. I know there are plenty of private buses between Chennai-Bangalore and to pretty much any destination within TN.

And in my opinion, government should privatize as many routes and collect taxes from such remunerable routes. Governments should provide services that private buses do not. This is better than government running luxury services.

[ranga]

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

Reg Metro buses in Chennai:

Why privatisation is not allowed, whereas all over Tamil Nadu, private and Govt buses are competing?

Why only the chrompet fabrication facility (of erstwhile PTC) is given the orders for bus body building (with limited vintage equipments), whereas we have world class body building units of TVS, Ashok Leyland or Bangalore based companies and Karur based private units?

Why people of Chennai is opposing even 50 paises to 1 Re raise so vehemently, whereas they spend much more on other avenues?

Why people are mute spectators to this sorry state of affairs?

YOU have raised pertinent questions. When i asked my relatives in chennai about the requirement of resonable increase in busfares, to increase the fleet and the conditions of the buses i got only incoherent answers. The immediate reaction was if the Govt ever contemplates on that line it will loose power in the next election.Populism, freebies is ruining the state.

[slakhs]

Let me give some statistics

MTC:
-------

Fleet: 2773
Schedule: 2554
Passengers: 37.24 lakhs / day

All of this have reduced over the last 5 years. The average age has increased from 5 to 8.

BMTC:
-------

Fleet: 4157
Schedules: 4144
Passengers: 35 lakhs

More facts at the links provided above. It is plain that much maligned BTS / BMTC has improved over the last few years and the opposite with MTC.

The condition of buses, not just the rickety old look but broken seats, gaping stairs (I think someone fell off and died, will try to get the news link too), jutting metal.. there's a lot to blame MTC. The only +ve point is frequency / coverage but even in those factors BMTC has grown well while it has remained static in the case of MTC.

Cheers
Slakhs

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

Reg Metro buses in Chennai:

Why privatisation is not allowed, whereas all over Tamil Nadu, private and Govt buses are competing?

I think in the Nilgris also there are no private buses..is there any specific reason?

[satish]

Originally Posted by slakhs

Let me give some statistics

MTC:
-------

Fleet: 2773
Schedule: 2554
Passengers: 37.24 lakhs / day

All of this have reduced over the last 5 years. The average age has increased from 5 to 8.

BMTC:
-------

Fleet: 4157
Schedules: 4144
Passengers: 35 lakhs

More facts at the links provided above. It is plain that much maligned BTS / BMTC has improved over the last few years and the opposite with MTC.

The condition of buses, not just the rickety old look but broken seats, gaping stairs (I think someone fell off and died, will try to get the news link too), jutting metal.. there's a lot to blame MTC. The only +ve point is frequency / coverage but even in those factors BMTC has grown well while it has remained static in the case of MTC.

Cheers
Slakhs

Well, I am glad you brought up the numbers. Ranga said Bangalore has better public transport than Chennai. MTC carries 37 lakhs/day. Add suburban rail which is about 7 lakhs/day. That makes it about 44 lakhs/day for Chennai.

Another point is MTC carries similar number of passengers compared to BMTC. I think that should mean MTC is efficient in utilizing it's fleet. It's probably stretched. But what do you expect when prices have not been revised by government for the last 5 years. So, blame the TN government not MTC.

My other point of contention was about expensive volvos for city commute. MTC did introduce A/C buses early on. But it didn't work (it was probably too early and MTC should think of re-introducing them). If you went through MTC websites, they have different service options. And if you noticed, there were just 10 deluxe buses. And more than 50% were LSS and express services. I would conclude that people prefer faster services than better quality of service.

Still, I would like to see better quality of service (and quantities). I hope present government increases the bus fares (it is political will and i am sure commuters don't mind paying extra buck) to make sure MTC gets back to making profits. also, i would like to see privatization of some routes (atleast the suburban routes) and possibly an integrated bus-rail transport mode with buses feeding the trains. we have to connect MRTS upto Guindy.

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by satish

Oh, I didn't know that. I know there are plenty of private buses between Chennai-Bangalore and to pretty much any destination within TN.

And in my opinion, government should privatize as many routes and collect taxes from such remunerable routes. Governments should provide services that private buses do not. This is better than government running luxury services.

There are plenty of private buses between Chennai-Bangalore, Chennai-Coimbatore, Chennai-Madurai, Chennai - Nagercoil, Chennai-Salem, Madurai- Coimbatore. These buses serve two purposes- as a transport for passengers and as a lorry to carry goods. These buses are in high demand during festival time when the trains are booked full, during that period they increase the fares drastically. Govt need not introduce luxury buses and try to compete with private buses, but they can try to regularise the fares in private buses.

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by satish

.

about MTC: most of view points seem like individual perceptions about looks of buses. i personally find MTC buses no different from ones in bangalore. both these are cheap versions. only difference is, in chennai windows are more open and covered with non-glass material. in bangalore it is half covered with glass. chennai we all know is humid and we need more air. so such a design with less glass and more window openings is required. otherwise, i find the buses similar.

The other reason for not having glass windows is to prevent damage during riots or strike. Now a days there are no strikes in TN, I cudnt remember when did we have the last state wide strike, when i was in school often there was strikes and i used to get hoilday.

[Anniyan]

Originally Posted by MaduraiSelvam

Thank god they decided for Chennai. It used to be Hyderabad to get things from Maritime and Oceanography facilities without any reason even though its far away from Sea.

Do u knw who is the shipping minister...

[ferrari_fan]

Originally Posted by satish

Well, I am glad you brought up the numbers. Ranga said Bangalore has better public transport than Chennai. MTC carries 37 lakhs/day. Add suburban rail which is about 7 lakhs/day. That makes it about 44 lakhs/day for Chennai.

Another point is MTC carries similar number of passengers compared to BMTC. I think that should mean MTC is efficient in utilizing it's fleet. It's probably stretched. But what do you expect when prices have not been revised by government for the last 5 years. So, blame the TN government not MTC.

My other point of contention was about expensive volvos for city commute. MTC did introduce A/C buses early on. But it didn't work (it was probably too early and MTC should think of re-introducing them). If you went through MTC websites, they have different service options. And if you noticed, there were just 10 deluxe buses. And more than 50% were LSS and express services. I would conclude that people prefer faster services than better quality of service.

well, from the numbers that slakhs quoted for us, i would have thought that it's obvious that B'lore's public transport system is far ahead of Chennai's - packing the same number of people into a far smaller number of buses can't be called efficiency when each of those buses are loaded to several times their capacity..

i don't think it makes a difference whether you blame the GoTN or the MTC - the point is that public transport in the city has remained a mess while other cities such as B'lore have moved on to better things..

and yes, i definitely think a/c buses are way overdue for a city with our weather..

about MTC: most of view points seem like individual perceptions about looks of buses. i personally find MTC buses no different from ones in bangalore. both these are cheap versions. only difference is, in chennai windows are more open and covered with non-glass material. in bangalore it is half covered with glass. chennai we all know is humid and we need more air. so such a design with less glass and more window openings is required. otherwise, i find the buses similar.

there's absolutely no comparison - B'lore's buses are at the very least 5 years ahead of anything on Chennai's roads today - i realise that their older buses are probably on par or slightly inferior to Chennai's current buses, but the fact is that they have consciously modernised over the past few years and it really does show - i'm not referring only to the Volvos (which btw make B'lore India's first city with world-class buses) but also a huge number of the other buses - the blue-and-white buses if you know the ones i mean..

it's not fair to dismiss the good efforts that they've put in in B'lore by saying that it's just a handful of buses used to boost the city's image either - these buses run in most parts of B'lore and have largely replaced the old dabbas-on-wheels..

[MaduraiSelvam]

Originally Posted by Anniyan

Do u knw who is the shipping minister...

yea yea. Making hay while the SUN is shining

[goodman]

The numbers themselves explain that MTC is in need of atleast 1000 buses out of which we received 100 recently. rest 900 will come in probably atleast 7-9 years. Wow!
keeping in mind that there will be phasing out of atleast couple of hundred rickety buses (hopefully!) during the course of 7-9 years, i think MTC won't be able to increase the fleet size and thus the ridership or comfort, unless they purchase a huge chunk of buses (say all the 1000) in 2-3 years.

TN last revised bus fares in 2001 when compared with other southern states that revised in 2005 or 2006. check the link below.
http://www.tn.gov.in/policynotes/transport.htm