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Old July 27th, 2007, 04:41 AM   #4601
Hollie Maea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalliTooL View Post
^ I don't know what you mean by that.
I think what he was trying to imply is that if you don't get off of his case, your computer could be in danger of being breached. Consider yourself lucky...last time I pissed him off I was threatened with the full force of his legal empire

Last edited by Hollie Maea; July 27th, 2007 at 04:42 AM. Reason: bad grammar.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 04:48 AM   #4602
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At least you're being nice now....it's so nice when friends get along!
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Old July 27th, 2007, 06:07 AM   #4603
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This article has some incorrect data in terms of building specifics, but the view point is something we should not ignore.

-----
The tower slaves built
—Rafia Zakaria
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...7-7-2007_pg3_3

While newspapers across the Middle East and South Asia spend much time decrying the imperialism of Western countries’ poor treatment of Muslim minorities, little or no energy is spent discussing the plight of the Gulf’s modern-day slaves, whose masters claim to be the most authentic and representative Muslims

According to news reports Burj Dubai is set to overtake Taipei 101 and the Sears Tower as the world’s tallest building in the coming months. The Burj, which means tower in Arabic, will have 124 floors upon completion, as well as a luxury hotel and four luxury swimming pools along with offices and residential units. Designed to resemble a glittering desert flower, the Burj Dubai when completed will also be the tallest manmade object ever built on Earth.

Indeed, given this iconic position on the human landscape, the Burj is not unlike the Egyptian pyramids of yesteryears which were also testaments to the wealth and might of the burgeoning Pharoanic kingdom and commanded awe and respect from all who viewed them. Undoubtedly the United Arab Emirates is now a world trading giant, having successfully harnessed the forces of globalisation and free market capitalism in its favour. Its increasingly crowded skyline and its cavalcade of luxury shopping malls, selling all manner of luxury items from Mikimoto pearls to Armani suits, are testament to its voracious desire to be respected as an international destination for investors and tourists.

And if one is to stretch the pyramid comparison a little further, the same problem confronts Burj Dubai as did the Egyptian pyramids. Are the pyramids to be revered and admired as symbols of a powerful empire; or are they to be reviled as physical testaments of slavery: the ultimate reduction of human beings to mere instruments in the service of an oppressive regime? Is Burj Dubai a symbol of progress or a mocking tribute the existence of modern-day slaves?

According to “Building Towers: Cheating Workers”, the latest report issued by Human Rights Watch, construction workers in the Gulf States face some of the most horrendous work environments on the planet. Forced to work sixteen- to twenty-hour days in debilitating heat, without any vacation for years and with compensation withheld for months on end, the Dubai construction workers eke out an existence devoid of any dignity or freedom. Living at the mercy of the employers, who literally “own” their employment visas and hence their freedom of movement, these modern day slaves are unable to leave any employer for fear of deportation.

The employers, on the other hand, can, like the Pharoanic rulers of Egypt, easily trade them for cheaper workers or sell them via trading their employment contracts to other companies.

In addition to the restricted freedom of movement, companies in the UAE, both large and small, often refuse to pay these workers since few legal enforcement mechanisms exist to force them to do so. According to the Report, Al-Hamed Development and Construction, a company worth over $300 million dollars and one of the fastest growing construction companies in the world, failed to pay 7000 of its construction workers in 2005-2006. The smaller companies are also notorious for absconding or simply closing up shop without paying their workers.

The fact that the construction workers are “guests” without equivalent legal rights that would enable to contest such actions without fears of reprisals, further entrenches their status as slaves in a society that surely treats them as such. In addition, most workers still owe debts to their handlers and so cannot return without wages to pay them off; so they are caught in a vicious circle of persecution.

The living conditions of construction workers who build towers such as Burj Dubai are further proof of their slave status. Tours of labour camps in Dubai and other Emirates have revealed that workers were often housed in abject conditions without proper plumbing or even sleeping facilities. In one camp, run by the East Coast and Hamriah Company in Sharjah, human rights workers found overflowing toilets and no electricity because the company had failed to pay its bills. Workers who were still living in the camp had not been paid for seven months despite their continuing work on the Company’s projects. In addition to problems with working conditions, many workers who die while on the job are buried and forgotten with little notice or compensation to families abroad.


Taken cumulatively, the condition of the Pakistani, Indian, Sri-Lankan and Bangladeshi workers who make projects such as Burj Dubai possible expose the ugliest and most repugnant face of supposed “progress” in the Gulf States. While newspapers across the Middle East and South Asia spend much time decrying the imperialism of Western countries’ poor treatment of Muslim minorities, little or no energy is spent discussing the plight of these modern-day slaves, whose masters claim to be the most authentic and representative Muslims. Where indeed are the Islamic values of justice, piety and egalitarianism when it comes to foreign workers imported to be human machines?

Sky-scrapers and fancy malls exist all around the world, but the Gulf States are unique in creating a system of labour exploitation where workers are not only denied citizenship despite years of residence but are treated as mere chattel unworthy of even the barest minimum of respect. Housed in camps, fed like cows and worked like horses they are the most reprehensible example of human subjugation in the world today.

While the skylines of city states like Dubai and Sharjah may increasingly resemble those of New York, London and Chicago, underneath the façade of glittering metal and overblown luxuriousness hides the ugly secret of a form of exploitation that is truly unparalleled anywhere else in the developed world. Burj Dubai may well resemble its skyscraper counterparts in terms of structural similarities, but in the oppression and exploitation of its genesis it is no better than a Pharoanic pyramid, a relic of an archaic age that fails to respect the dignity of the human being.

Rafia Zakaria is an attorney living in the United States where she teaches courses on Constitutional Law and Political Philosophy. She can be contacted at [email protected]
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Old July 27th, 2007, 06:13 AM   #4604
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Yea, I keep hearing labor is a big problem, no wonder they can manage to building something so great. When the labor cost is so low, you're bound to save some money.

Is there anything being done about this?
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Old July 27th, 2007, 06:14 AM   #4605
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And you can't get away from the Americans ...

-----
http://www.suntimes.com/business/484...unan26.article

Towering ambition
CONSTRUCTION | Developer wants world's tallest for U.S.

July 26, 2007
BY DAVID ROEDER [email protected]

Zaya Younan is not crazy. Since starting a real estate business in 2002, he has become one of the largest office landlords in Texas, and accumulated property worth about $1.5 billion, claiming strong and steady returns for investors.

Now he wants to build the world's tallest building. He wants it in Chicago, Los Angeles or Houston. He wants it for the glory of the United States of America, and to take advantage of long-term trends that he said will lead to more vertical living in major cities.

And he doesn't want a building that will barely rate a mention in the history books, a delicate titleholder surpassed in some Asian capital before its paint dries. "I want it to be the tallest for as long as I am alive," Younan told the Sun-Times.


He's 44.

The chairman of Younan Properties Inc. said that to build something with a lengthy hold on the record, he'll need about 500 feet of cushion between his building's height and any probable competitors.

By today's standards, that means going up about 3,000 feet. It's Sears Tower times two. It could cost $4 billion.

All of which might cause builders and property investors to wonder if Younan is conversant with reality. He insisted his own company can finance most of the project and that it can acquire the engineering and architectural know-how it needs.

Younan is a buyer, holder and renovator of office buildings, with about 10 million square feet nationwide, with some 20 percent of his portfolio in the Chicago area.

He said he emigrated from Iran at age 13, and loves the U.S. for its freedom and opportunities.

"The U.S. is the country with the largest economy in the world, and it's shameful that we don't have the tallest building,'' Younan said. "My mission in life is to bring that crown back to the U.S."

As for where to put it, he said he wants to decide the location by yearend. Los Angeles, where his company is based, is an early favorite because he sees it having a large unmet demand for cutting-edge office space. But he likes Chicago for its vibrant downtown and sustainable expansions in the office market.

His options include buying a site or building on property he already owns.

In Chicago, Younan controls buildings at 200 N. La Salle and 211 E. Ontario, plus several buildings in the northwest suburbs. Most of it he acquired in 2006 in a $175 million deal with Transwestern Investment Co.

He declined to discuss likely sites for his project.

The world's tallest building is under construction in the United Arab Emirates. Burj Dubai's final height is a secret, but the developers are believed to be aiming for 2,300 feet.

The Santiago Calatrava-designed spire proposed for the Chicago lakefront would measure 2,000 feet.

Sears Tower, once the record holder, has been surpassed by the twin Petronas Tower in Malaysia and the Taipei 101 tower in Taiwan.

Younan's expertise is the office market, but he said he'd like a range of uses within the building. It could be a self-contained center, "a city within a city," he said, complete with condominiums, a hospital and a museum or other attractions.

Younan pointed to his acquisition of a Dallas building, the 30-story One Dallas Centre, as a small-scale test of that vision. He's rebranding the building as Patriot Tower, and plans a museum dedicated to American veterans.

Around Chicago, some real estate executives familiar with Younan said he has strong analytical skills and access to capital, but also an excessive ego and a need for self-promotion.

He knows he has his detractors, but he said his instincts usually prove them wrong. "People have always told me in this business, 'Wait a minute, slow down, think about it again.' I'm generally glad that I didn't take their advice," he said.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 06:26 AM   #4606
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^ Not gonna happen.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 06:45 AM   #4607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Tower View Post
I believe there are three toilets in this building....two of them are for women and the other has only one urinal.

Anyway, my father turned up on Thursday evening quite out of the blue with an old friend of his. They met in 1980 when my father opened and ran the South African resort of Sun City (which he ran for 16 years). The guy's name was Duncan McKensie, the developing contractor of Sun City and my father dragged him down 250 miles to see me, saying that I've got to meet him.
After a few drinks we started talking about his recent return from Shanghai, saying that his role there for the last few months was to orchestrate the correction of the 4" lean the SWFC had developed after a large tremor and the difficulties of building skyscrapers foundations on bedrock in a seismic area. He then said that he was off to Dubai next week to start on a new project....but couldn't say what he was doing as it was a secret.
I racked my brains for a few minutes trying to guess what approved building he was working on and my 3rd guess was the Dancing Towers!
His eye's lit up at this point and a wry smile appeared on his face! "How do you know about the Dancing Towers?", he asked. I told him about my passion about construction in Dubai and he was blown away at the level of knowledge I had on various different projects. Luckily I had my PDA phone with me and I showed him a few forums and the DMP website which he found absolutely fascinating. Anyway, after a few more drinks I mentioned the whole interview thing with Adrian Smith, which it turns out he knows very well. It also turned out that he is in constant contact with Mohammed Alabbar and has also met the Sheikh himself on many occasions. I badgered him further to see if he knew what the final height of the BD would be, and he quickly replied with "yes I do, but I couldn't possibly say!"
Desperately now trying to get him drunk enough to let his guard down, he didn't falter with his determination not to say, although later on in the evening he did make me a bet that if I could guess what his favorite architect was, he would tell me the final height of the BD. The only clues I was given is that 'he' was 'British' and that he was envolved in some of the most spectacular achitectural designs in the world.
Anyway researching like mad, I emailed him the answer yesterday and he phoned me this morning, firstly making me swear on my fathers life that I would not disclose the figure with anyone, the height of the Burj Dubai Tower!
Now knowing the height (which was given to me as a +-10m figure, due to the nature of unpredictability) has now become a curse, as knowing and not being able to tell anyone is actually worse than not knowing at all!
So guys, please don't try and ask me the height and put me in an awkward position, but the only thing I can say is it will be much more than 808m and more than 200 floors.
All in all though, those that love this building will NOT be dissapointed!

*cough*
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Old July 27th, 2007, 06:46 AM   #4608
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wow, that would be awesome though...i can imagine it now, a nice bigass skyscraper in Downtown Houston...a man can dream
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Old July 27th, 2007, 06:59 AM   #4609
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^ Not gonna happen.
I would agree with that actually. The only world record that will remain with the US for a protracted period of time is the massive debt
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:01 AM   #4610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
This article has some incorrect data in terms of building specifics, but the view point is something we should not ignore.

-----
The tower slaves built
From my history books the Egyptian pyramids were not built by slaves. The workers actually wanted to build them as service to there Pharaoh.

Maybe this crack-pot author needs another analogy to go with her incorrect figures!
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:09 AM   #4611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
I would agree with that actually. The only world record that will remain with the US for a protracted period of time is the massive debt

The US is not even close to having the record for the most debt (per person or per GDP).
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:19 AM   #4612
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MetalliTool - Our favorite Troll.....who gets about his trolling everywhere!

MetalliTool, don't banter on at me about BS in forums!

Our Trash Metal friend who tries to impose his very warped angle on a Burj Dubai thread, stolen from the defunct fiveeightforums to dreamtheatreforums and embellished a whole load of his own made up BS as fact.

This is a guy who has a warped semantic opinion on anything and everything.

This is a guy who has a communist symbol of the CCCP disambiguation of a regieme that imposed 16,000,000 deaths upon it's own people during it's rule as his avatar.

A guy who spouts seperatist, communist, and terroristic insightment to riot, with hedonistic sexual connatations and comments to pre vetted young girls matching idiological requirement on searchbar who are groomed into accepting his offers of friendship on Orfay and Myspace


Here are some of my favorite trolling quotes of his....


First of all, if I was following the Bible, I'm be stoning adulterers and gays to death and doing other crazy shit that it prescribes.

"Screwing everyone" can actually end up helping more than "helping everyone".

Ok, I was ****** with Lars, but unfortunately he didn't take the bait.

I call bullshit. She doesn't seem like the type. They even got her age wrong. She's 26, not 23.

Idiotic strategy. And shouldn't they be arming Shiites instead?

**** that. There are many other countries in need who get a tiny fraction of what Israel gets.

You suck! from MetalliTooL (had to be done)

They have a strong enough army to deal with all of them militarily. Other than that, we can't help them anyway.

Screw Israel. I don't see any benefit to unconditionally supporting Israel.

What's the beef between Turks, Kurds, and Iranians?

Bin Laden wasn't against the Taliban. The US supported him when he was fighting the Soviet Union.

The republican debates can be summed up in "I love Jesus. I love America. Americans are the greatest. Terrorists want to kill you." zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

...I think you're just making shit up at this point. How does the EC make the candidates connect more to the people? Oh I know... IT DOESN'T.

So, in conclusion, the only fair way to decide an election is to go by popular vote and skip all the bullshit.

http://metallitool.stumbleupon.com/

http://metallitool.orfay.com/friends/0/0/0

http://ca.music.yahoo.com/launchcast...p?u=1298224677

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...nk&cd=13&gl=uk

Hmm, now let me see.....are you really making new friends here?

I did warn you!
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:26 AM   #4613
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MetalliTool,

Regarding your post, #4609, I have two words to add to your response...

Horrrrssssssse Shiiiiiiiiit!
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:27 AM   #4614
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@ Sky Tower:

OH. MY. FREAKIN. GOD.



You gotta be kidding me. That's your "hacking" skillz? Half of that shit is not even me (like the orfay.com account [whatever the hell that is] and yahoo music). Wow, your super powers are looking up the username on Google? AMAZING!

Seriously. Pathetic.

And I love how you took my quotes from dreamtheater.net and fiveeightforums.com completely out of context.

...And why do you feel that you need to retaliate against me anyway? What exactly did I do? I posted YOUR OWN QUOTE. You got owned. Live with it. Stop acting like a child.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #4615
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Yes...it's not very nice when you're miss-quoted is it?

Without a reference, single posts without citation can misconstrued....so don't do it again.

Just let it go....cos I can keep this up all day!
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #4616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
I would agree with that actually. The only world record that will remain with the US for a protracted period of time is the massive debt
http://http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

I've read when we reach 25 Trillion in debt the US will be bankrupt.. only 16 Trillion more to go
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:35 AM   #4617
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Hi all.
Let me begin by thanking Skytower for getting us all great stuff - I hope more soon.

Secondly some confirmation on the tier numbering. Tier 12 is levels 139 to 143.


Observation deck - Level 124 - First level of tier 11.


Level 139 - First level of tier 12.


Tier 12 - levels 140 to 143.


All prints are the same orientation. North is to the upper right. Take away the 3 points with the next 3 tiers and this is the shape of Tier 15 levels 153 to 155 after it's first level ( 152 ) that has a terrace. The print is actually to show the terraces or roofs of tiers 15, 16, and 17 but I am only using it for the shape of tier 15.


Tier 19 starting elevation.


Elevation - Tiers 20, 21, and 22. Notice the stairs to go up outside the pinnacle inside one of the wings. Notice also the ladder to go up inside the pinnacle.


Elevation - Tiers 23 to 27.


Tier 23 start.


Tier 24 start. Notice the doors to the roofs in the next few prints.


Tier 25 start. The pinnacle is 2.1 meters wide for now.


Tier 26 start.


Tier 27 start. The starting elevation has the last terrace ( and last door going out onto that terrace ) before the pinnacle rises circular 2.1 meters diameter.


Elevation - Tiers 27 to 30.Notice the fins spiralling up the pinnacle.


Tier 28 start. 1.5 meters diameter.


Tier 29 start. 1.35 meters dia.


Elevation - Tier 30 to Top of pinnacle. Notice the print seems to show 808 meters. Add the 6 3.2's and the 2.1 to tier 30 starting elevation of 796.7 and you get 818. Notice the top section and lights ( a little over a meter ) are above the 818 elevation. So it's gonna be 819.x by this print.


Tier 30 start. 1.2 meters dia.


Top of the pinnacle. Notice the hatch to go out on top.


How would you like to go out that hatch and check out the view ? Any of the doors to the top roofs for that matter ?
They wouldn't even have to pay me to take care of the lights on this structure. I would do it for free.

Love the complexity of this thing.
Have a good day all.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:37 AM   #4618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Tower View Post
Yes...it's not very nice when you're miss-quoted is it without a reference and single posts without citation can misconstrued....so don't do it again.

Just let it go....cos I can keep this up all day!

Apparently you CAN'T keep this up all day, since you couldn't even do it the first time. You have such amazing research skills, that you didn't even notice that some of the people, who you claimed were me, live in a different state than me.

And also I don't see how I'm misquoting you. I posted your FULL quote from THIS thread with ALL the context. Bottom line is you posted some crap about finding out secret info about the Burj. People called your bullshit, but you started snapping at everyone. Now it turned out these people were right to call your BS, and you got owned. But even after being owned, you're still acting like you're right and everyone else is wrong. Like I said - pathetic.

Your attempt at smearing me was really one of the funniest things that happened to me this month.

Did the thought of simply apologizing for feeding us bullshit ever cross your mind?

Last edited by MetalliTooL; July 27th, 2007 at 07:44 AM.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:46 AM   #4619
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Its Friday afternoon here and let me say both of you, Sky Tower and Metalli, are proving highly entertaining!!
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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:47 AM   #4620
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Hey Fury....I'll keep posting em...if you keep breaking em down!

Great job mate.....(oh....and Tier 22...the last public roof is half an inch above 700m)

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