daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 28th, 2008, 05:01 AM   #61
Chilenofuturista
Zug->für 'ne bessere welt
 
Chilenofuturista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,766
Likes (Received): 274



Great map! I love this project, I can't wait for it to commence. Argentinian forumers, please keep us updated as much as you can about this wonderful project!
Chilenofuturista no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 8th, 2008, 11:14 PM   #62
Bates
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 198
Likes (Received): 18

ARGENTINA | High Speed Rail

Surprise!

Quote:
High Speed Passenger Rail Comes to the Americas
The contracts have been signed, and the first high-speed railway in the Americas will be built very soon - but not where you're thinking. Argentina's new President Christina Kirchner, wife of former President Nestor Kirchner, signed the papers last month with a consortium led by French company Alstom to connect the country's major cities by high-speed rail.

The $1.35 billion contract calls for a 440 mile (710 km) high-speed rail corridor to connect Buenos Aires with Rosario and Cordoba. A second line will connect Buenos Aires with Mar del Plata in the future. The train will cut down travel time between Buenos Aires and Cordoba from fourteen hours today to a mere three hours a couple years from now.

The is quite a step in Latin America, where rail service has been systematically mismanaged, neglected and dismantled in recent years, and bus service has become the standard for long distance journeys. Not to be outdone by its neighbor, Brazil is planning its own intercity passenger rail service, with a high-speed connection proposed between Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo.

The closest thing in North America to high-speed passenger rail is Amtrak's Acela, which runs at speeds of between 75 mph (120 km/h) and 150 mph (241 km/h). High-speed rail is generally defined as passenger rail running at speeds in excess of 125 mph (200 km/h). High-speed rail networks are being planning in Canada and in California. However, some advocates of high-speed rail travel are calling for the US to build a nationwide network as part of its response to dwindling resources and the environmental crisis.

Asian and European high-speed rail networks are currently the world's most advanced. However, Russia, Morocco and Saudi Arabia are planning to build their own high-speed networks in the near future.

Source: http://travel.propeller.com/story/20...-the-americas/


Quote:
The Buenos Aires–Rosario–Córdoba high-speed railway (Tren de Alta Velocidad –TAVe) is a project that will, according to its proponents, link the Argentine cities of Buenos Aires, Rosario and Córdoba through a 710 kilometers (441 mi) high-speed rail network. The plan, announced by President Néstor Kirchner during a press conference at the Casa Rosada on 26 April 2006, will be the first in Argentina and the Americas operating at up to 320 km/h (200 mph).
Buenos Aires and its metropolitan area has a population of more than 12 million, almost one third of the national total. It is the economic and political center of Argentina, and its main international entry point.

Rosario, located about 286 kilometers (178 mi) north-northwest, is the third-largest city and a major port, with a metropolitan population over 1.6 million. It is part of the agricultural and industrial core of the littoral region.

Córdoba, with a population around 2 million, is located about 710 kilometers (441 mi) from Buenos Aires, near the geographical center of Argentina. It is the second most populated conurbation, and a cultural, touristic and industrial center.

Altogether, the three cities count 15 million inhabitants, or more than a third of the country's 40 million people. Rosario and Cordoba are vital centers in the farm sector, which is booming thanks to high commodity prices.

Currently, the main form of transportation between these three cities is by road, through National Route 9, followed far behind by air travel.


Features
Third generation TGV duplex bi-level carriagesA high-speed electric train (not a bullet train, as a some early journalistic reports called it) operating at up to 320 km/h (200 mph) with overhead catenary power lines on a standard gauge track of 1435 mm (4 ft 81⁄2 in), will run to Rosario on a double-track route and to Córdoba on a new single-track alignment. Alstom is to provide eight, 509 passenger double-deck TGVs equipped with ETCS Level 2 signalling, the new line should provide a Buenos Aires - Rosario journey time of 85 min, (for comparison, an intercity passenger bus takes about four hours) with Córdoba reached 90 min later.

Stations
The new train will link the cities along the central corridor trough the agricultural heartland of Argentina. According to the current plan, there will be 20 train services daily, carrying about 7,500 passengers. Several intermediate stops are planned between the main ones, most likely in the cities of Pilar, Campana, San Pedro, San Nicolás de los Arroyos, Cañada de Gómez, Marcos Juárez, Bell Ville and Villa María.


Bids, costs and financing
The total cost of the Buenos Aires–Rosario–Córdoba line was calculated at 4,000 million dollars

Four European firms presented themselves as bidders: Alstom (French), Siemens (German), CAF (Spanish) and Impregilo (Italian). Pre-contractual conditions stated that the national state will pay for the whole sum, but the firm in charge of the construction will finance 50%. When technical and financial bids were due in March 2007 only the Veloxia grouping of Alstom, Isolux Corsan, Iecsa and Emepa came forward, and the consortium was selected as preferred bidder on 20 June 2007.

Veloxia was formally selected on 16 January 2008, with a contract to be signed 'in the next few months'. Alstom will suppy eight double-deck TGV trains called 'Cobra'. IECSA will undertake civil engineering, Isolux Corsan and EMEPA will construct the track.

The secretary of transport of the nation, Ricardo Jaime, announced on 27 March 2008, that the minister of economy of the nation - Martín Lousteau- and the partnership led by the French company Alston approved a resolution for the financing of the construction of the Buenos Aires-Rosario-Cordoba High Speed Train (TAVe). The final binding of agreement on the project is to be signed in 10 days.

The external financing will be in charge by the French bank Natixis who will will finance 100 % of the project with an absolutely advisable rate of interest for Argentina. The financing scheme anticipates to take care of the investment of approximately 12,500 million Argentine pesos (ARS), (2,500 million euros - 4,000 million-dollars), amount that will be financed with a long term credit of 30 years that will be guaranteed with the delivery of the public titles.


Schedule
May 8, 2006: Licitation call (offerers qualification): Impregilo, Siemens, Alstom and CAF.
July 25, 2006: Companies qualification act: Siemens, Alstom and CAF.
December 20, 2006: Technical offers. Delayed two times until March 27, 2007: Only Alstom.
January 30, 2007: Economic offers. Delayed two times until April 30, 2007.
January 16, 2008: Argentina chooses Alstom-led consortium in partnership with Spanish and Argentine companies to build the first very high speed line in the Americas;
March 27, 2008: Approval of a resolution for External financing.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...lway_map_3.jpg

Last edited by Bates; April 9th, 2008 at 01:10 AM.
Bates no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2008, 01:47 AM   #63
AR1182
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,814
Likes (Received): 1777

Already posted:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=468204

Also be carefull with the Wikipedia article because it's not that accurate.
AR1182 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 06:10 AM   #64
goschio
proud Kuffar
 
goschio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ujerumani
Posts: 6,060
Likes (Received): 4261

Wonderful project. Not long and Argentina will be fully developed country.
__________________
Isaiah 28:2
Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Matthew 7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
goschio no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 09:34 PM   #65
Ian
Mariano
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rosario
Posts: 1,924
Likes (Received): 564

Argentina finalises with Alstom-led consortium the contract to supply the first very high speed line in America

Alstom.com

The President of Argentine Republic, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, in presence of Patrick Kron, Chairman & CEO of Alstom, has signed on 29 April 2008 a contract with Alstom and its partners Iecsa, Isolux Corsan and Emepa*, for the construction of the first very high speed link in America, between Buenos Aires, Rosario and Córdoba. This signature follows the adjudication which took place on 16 January 2008. Alstom’s share of this contract, which includes in particular the management of the project, rolling stock and signalling, is valued at around €1.1 billion. The contract will become effective subject to the implementation of the financing, which should take place in the coming months.


The line will link Buenos Aires and Córdoba, 710 km apart, in three hours instead of the fourteen hours the journey takes today. It will be served by eight double deck very high speed trains, each with a capacity of 509 passengers, at speeds of up to 320 kph. The construction of the line will be divided in two parts: Buenos Aires-Rosario and Rosario-Córdoba part. Once the basic design is validated, the construction works are scheduled to last 4 years.

This turnkey project will involve the construction of the infrastructure, including seven stations, electrification, signalling (ERTMS level 2), the supply of rolling stock and maintenance. The trains will be manufactured at Alstom’s French plants and assembled at the Alstom site at La Plata, in the province of Buenos Aires, and in Rio Tercero, in the province of Cordoba. Apart from supplying rolling stock, Alstom will be in charge of signalling, telecommunications, part of track works, engineering and management of the turnkey project. Iecsa will be responsible for the civil engineering with Isolux Corsan, who will also supply the electrification. Emepa will participate with Alstom and Iecsa to the construction of the tracks. The project will be financed by the French bank Natixis.

“The Buenos Aires-Rosario-Córdoba line constitutes the largest very high speed rail project outside Europe since the KTX project in Korea. It represents an essential component in the revival of railways in Argentina, which will have a major impact on the economic development of the region. Thanks to this contract, Alstom confirms it intends to be a key player in the expansion of very high speed trains in the many countries where their implementation is decided or contemplated, by taking advantage of its technical and commercial leadership”, underlines Patrick Kron, Chairman and CEO of Alstom.

This order confirms Alstom’s leadership in very high speed. Since the launch of the first TGV** in 1981, Alstom has gained unrivalled experience: 70% of the trains in service in the world which travel at more than 300 kph have been built by Alstom. They have covered over 2.8 billion kilometres (6,500 times the distance between the earth and the moon), carried 1.6 billion passengers and achieved two world rail speed records - 515.3 kph in 1990 and 574.8 kph in 2007.


... I'm so happy!!!!
Ian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 08:00 AM   #66
priamos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

Compromises and extensions

For those who read Spanish, there's a big discussion of the new high-speed link (COBRA) on the Argentina pages of this forum:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=572218

As far as I have understood the link between Buenos Aires and Cordoba is a bit of a "bastard" in the sense that it's only dedicated high speed track until Rosario. Between Rosario and Cordoba it will be single track with maximum speed limited to 160 km/h. (This may have less to do with the track than with signalling: 160 is the limit for how fast one can drive with conventional signal equipment.)

On the plus-side, plans for a second high speed line linking Buenos Aires with Mar del Plata are already far advanced...
priamos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 04:02 AM   #67
Ian
Mariano
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rosario
Posts: 1,924
Likes (Received): 564

Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
As far as I have understood the link between Buenos Aires and Cordoba is a bit of a "bastard" in the sense that it's only dedicated high speed track until Rosario. Between Rosario and Cordoba it will be single track with maximum speed limited to 160 km/h. (This may have less to do with the track than with signalling: 160 is the limit for how fast one can drive with conventional signal equipment.)...
No, you are wrong, it's all high speed...
Ian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 07:14 AM   #68
priamos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
No, you are wrong, it's all high speed...
I may have been wrong about the 160 km/h, but Rosario-Cordoba will definitely be the world's first high-speed single track:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_v...ash=4a596768fe

Come to think, my misunderstanding is probably due to an error by French railway magazine La Vie du Rail: they were ironicising over the "speed limits" on a high speed line, which could have referred to the 160 km/h speed limit in the urban areas of Rosario. This runs counter to French practices where all agglomerations can be passed at an undiminished 300 km/h - but is no different from neighbouring Germany where much of the gains on the high speed rails are subsequently squandered on the commuter tracks of the cities that are passed through.
priamos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 10:57 AM   #69
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
This runs counter to French practices where all agglomerations can be passed at an undiminished 300 km/h - but is no different from neighbouring Germany where much of the gains on the high speed rails are subsequently squandered on the commuter tracks of the cities that are passed through.
Apart from through Lille station. You only need high speed running through the cities if the trains don't stop, hence why they like by-passes in France because they run trains all over the place and many skip important places. Maybe Rosario is foreseen as always being called at, and high speed running through/bypassing the city is an unecessary cost.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 08:27 PM   #70
priamos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Apart from through Lille station. You only need high speed running through the cities if the trains don't stop, hence why they like by-passes in France because they run trains all over the place and many skip important places. Maybe Rosario is foreseen as always being called at, and high speed running through/bypassing the city is an unecessary cost.
I guess I have to disagree on two counts: first, even if trains do stop it makes a heck of a difference whether or not they have to borrow the local commuting tracks. Second, Lille is not an exception. Both the Paris-London and the Paris-Brussels lines bypass Lille through separate traces - one south of the city, the other east of the city. SOME trains pass via the centre of town, sure, but none have to.
priamos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 08:47 PM   #71
Messi
Tinerci Gençlik
 
Messi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 10,058
Likes (Received): 2430

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inuya5ha View Post
As a resident from Argentina, I'd like to point out that this project makes no sense at all, because these kind of trains should be built only in countries with a proper railway system.

Our railway system has been disassembled gradually in the 90's, after the privatization process that gave away the trains for free to the private operators. Entire towns in the inner provinces are now abandoned or have disappeared because the train no longer reaches those places.

Also, the private operators that manage trains in Buenos Aires and nearby cities are heavily subsidised with several millions US$ per day, because the passage cost is extremely cheap and not enough to cover the system's cost.

But despite the huge subsidies, the system is collapsed, police and security does not exists neither on the train or at stations, and most units are 30 or more years old, doors don't work, windows are destroyed.. and so on.






Doors cannot even be closed on peak hours or whenever there are service delays due to other problems caused by lack of maintenance, and ppl end up travelling this way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XAt-VDXSSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYPU0BoCAOA <- watch this one plz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaV-9-a36bY

People doesn't contribute at all with the train maintenance, by the contrary.. look how this train ended up after a passenger set fire on one of the wagons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqbHXs2s9kI

Railway maintenance: What maintenance?? This train almost derails due to the jumping on irregular railways:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srbcALt6U4s

Well this is just to let you know why most ppl here is not quite happy with the proyect.

Also, due to lack of planning, the country cannot generate enough energy and black-outs are constant in major cities like Buenos Aires and Córdoba, and industries cannot operate at full-level due to constant lack of natural gas and power. Many people here suggests that the new high speed train should be operated with AA batteries instead of the 25 KV that we don't know where they'll come from.

What kind of argument is that? "Our trains and lines suck so don't build anything new"?! How do you want to improve things if you don't invest in new technologies? This line may be a milestone for the Argentinian railways.
Btw I don't think that infrastructure is that bad in Argentina (I am not Argentinian but Turkish. I just lived Argentina for several months last year) especially in these three cities Bs.As, Rosaria and Cordoba which are Argentina's most important cities and need to be connected to eachother. I mean you don't need to be a professor in order to be able to foresee the postive result of this line!
Messi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 08:52 PM   #72
Messi
Tinerci Gençlik
 
Messi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 10,058
Likes (Received): 2430

Btw is it for sure that the line will be completed in 2012? Maybe next time I visit Argentina I can take this train although cama and super cama buses weren't that bad either
Messi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:49 AM   #73
AR1182
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,814
Likes (Received): 1777

Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
I may have been wrong about the 160 km/h, but Rosario-Cordoba will definitely be the world's first high-speed single track:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_v...ash=4a596768fe
Looks like the whole Buenos Aires-Córdoba line will be single track, except for the first 54 kilometres (Retiro-Villa Rosa, to be shared with existing suburban trains), and another 55 km section somewhere between Buenos Aires and Rosario, which would allow "dynamic" crossings. They did this to reduce costs as much as possible and because the planned service patterns won't require a double track throughout. In addition there will be three conventional crossing loops between Buenos Aires and Rosario and another five between Rosario and Córdoba.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentinian Messi View Post
Btw is it for sure that the line will be completed in 2012?
It seems at least Buenos Aires-Rosario would be in service by 2012.

Last edited by AR1182; May 2nd, 2008 at 02:55 AM.
AR1182 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2008, 09:35 AM   #74
priamos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
Looks like the whole Buenos Aires-Córdoba line will be single track, except for the first 54 kilometres (Retiro-Villa Rosa, to be shared with existing suburban trains), and another 55 km section somewhere between Buenos Aires and Rosario, which would allow "dynamic" crossings. They did this to reduce costs as much as possible and because the planned service patterns won't require a double track throughout. In addition there will be three conventional crossing loops between Buenos Aires and Rosario and another five between Rosario and Córdoba.
In that case I hope the Argentine state railwayws have good scedule planners! It's actually quite ironic: they based themselves on TGV technology which, while excellent for full-fledged "French" solutions, is the one implying the slowest accelerations and decelerations in the highspeed business (OK, except for the Italian ETR). They'll lose enourmous amounts of time if one of those has to wait at a crossing loop for a train in the opposite direction.
priamos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2008, 11:47 AM   #75
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
I guess I have to disagree on two counts: first, even if trains do stop it makes a heck of a difference whether or not they have to borrow the local commuting tracks. Second, Lille is not an exception. Both the Paris-London and the Paris-Brussels lines bypass Lille through separate traces - one south of the city, the other east of the city. SOME trains pass via the centre of town, sure, but none have to.
First count - yes it does make a difference but the cost of building a high speed route through a city for trains that are going to stop anyway is unlikely to be justified.

Second count - All trains from London go directly through Lille station on their way to Paris or Brussels. Only trains on the Paris - Brussels route can bypass the city to the south. Have a look at the map http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...lille-area.gif
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2008, 12:57 PM   #76
priamos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
All trains from London go directly through Lille station on their way to Paris or Brussels. Only trains on the Paris - Brussels route can bypass the city to the south.
You're quite right: my reference to "south" was erroneous. Quite simply I forgot to check the facts. However, you are mistaken in saying that all trains from London go directly through Lille station. I frequently travel on this route and I can assure you that "Lille Europe" station is normally visited only by Eurostars that make a stop there. From your map I form the opinion that the non-stop trains apparently skate the city centre on the eastern and northern sides.
priamos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:39 PM   #77
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

From the map the LGV quite clearly goes through Lille Europe, labelled as "E". The route that skirts the north of the city is an old and slow local line. It's got level crossings on it! Even if the trains had to slow to a crawl through Lille Europe it would still be faster than going round it on this old line.

The line through Lille Europe station is part of the LGV, and has a high through running speed of approximately 200km/h, I have the RFF speed map on another pc which I can find later. Passing it at speed and that it is sort of underground and therefore dark and at the end of a tunnel is the only explanation I can think of as to why you haven't noticed the station on your journeys, I certainly did when I went through.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2008, 12:48 AM   #78
AR1182
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,814
Likes (Received): 1777

Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
In that case I hope the Argentine state railwayws have good scedule planners! It's actually quite ironic: they based themselves on TGV technology which, while excellent for full-fledged "French" solutions, is the one implying the slowest accelerations and decelerations in the highspeed business (OK, except for the Italian ETR). They'll lose enourmous amounts of time if one of those has to wait at a crossing loop for a train in the opposite direction.
I guess those crossing loops will be unnecessary in regular service since traffic won't be that dense. The 55 km double track section between Buenos Aires and Rosario should allow intervals of about 90 minutes between trains in each direction, enough for the planned nine trains per day. One of the crossing trains might have to decelerate from 320 km/h to 220 km/h when entering and exiting the double track section, but that's it.

Rosario-Córdoba would see just four trains per day, so probably there won't be any regular crossings. Of course as soon as demand increases they will have to tighten the schedules, operate double-units and eventually expand double track sections.
AR1182 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2008, 11:40 AM   #79
dösanhoro
Registered User
 
dösanhoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 218
Likes (Received): 53

Either way they need to do both. Fix the local trains and build this one.

What is the current typical mode of transit between these cities? Bus? slower trains? Any information how much the tickets will cost compared to what is now available?
dösanhoro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 09:20 PM   #80
pablozar
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 0
Likes (Received): 3

There are no estimations still about the ticket prices, basically 'cause it's too soon to effectively calculate the operational costs. The federal transport secretary said the fare would be placed between the airplane and bus fares, about u$ 40 per pax in present terms for the first track. But considerate the fact that both airplane and bus fares are directly or indirectly subsidized and that it’s not a sustainable fiscal policy in time, then fares could rise in future to those when the service come active, making it potentially less subsidies-dependant than it would be today. At the moment the fare remains a futurology matter.

The typical mode between the first two cities (Buenos Aires and Rosario, 305 km) are bus and car (much less the airplane due to the scarce distance). Railway service is pretty poor at this time and I don’t think the government will spend to potentiate the old link. The second track between Rosario and Cordoba, 400 km length, is served both by bus and airplane.
pablozar no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
alstom, high speed train

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium