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Old August 15th, 2007, 08:59 PM   #121
Songoten2554
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like i said before its the AsiaTunnels won't be in the bottom of the ocean rather floating under in a floating tunnels so they are under the ocean but in the bottom and it saves more time for them to get to the land when its on land it would save time

TRZ i am sorry ok i just didn't knew of that railway for the freights part its just i seen that Tokyo Station is overcroweded and very busy and that i wondered how freight trains pass thru the station if its croweded and very busy and passes a main hub and i didn't knew that the freight trains have a different route so thank you for telling me ok
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Old August 17th, 2007, 04:40 AM   #122
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another thing is that the right of way from the flying junction of the Sanyo Shinkansen to the yard before the japan portal of the floating tunnel it will have a noise barrier on the sides like all shinkansen lines have so like i said before

the new right of way is going to look like a shinkansen line but it will only run the AsiaHSR trains but the thing is that

the AsiaHSR is not 24 hours the time will end in 12 am and the maintance will end till 5 am and when services will start with the AsiaHSR and Shinkansen

the japan portal will have 4 tunnel portals to the floating tunnel since it will inculde four sepearte tunnels inside a larger tunnel which is the floating tunnel

the AsiaHSR will use these tunnels also Asiashuttle, Freight trains, maintance and international Night Trains will use the tunnels as well
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:15 AM   #123
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In the same post you say there will be no service between 12am and 5am and then talk about international NIGHT TRAINS. That should be funny, but, then, this is you...


If you would run maglevs in such a project, maintenance would not be needed anywhere near as frequently. It was a maglev that was proposed in the floating tunnels program you referred to. Did you forget the part about the journey from New York to London being traversed in about one hour? That was why they were analyzing the concept in the first place. The speed was 5000km/h... FIVE THOUSAND KILOMETERS PER HOUR. That's 3 times faster than the condord was, which is the fastest commercial passenger vehicle we have to date ever seen. Shinkansen can't even go 1/10th that speed. TGV technically can go just over 1/10th (to date only on an experiemental run).
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #124
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the Asiatunnels will be 24 hours service so trains can go by it and if there is a track that is under reparier and such another train can use another track and such so there

the AsiaHSR will not be run 24 hours ok the Asiatunnels will be 24 hours to provide freight trains, international night trains, asiashuttle, and maintance to use the tunnels

but the asiatunnels still will provide the AsiaHSR when its in service

AsiaHSR will not be 24 hours with the japan section because of the Shinkansen strict maintance order and such so China, taiwan, russia, and South Korea will be 24 hours but not japan for that reason

since in japan it runs with the Shinkansen thru out the routes of part of the tokiado shinkansen and part of the Sanyo Shinkansen thats why

but there will be international stations in not only in japan but in other countries like china, russia, taiwan, south korea

since the Asiatunnels will be dual guage both narrow guage and standard guage will use it and it will have overhead wires for the power for the tunnels

also since the yard on the japan portal will also inculde a Asiashuttle facitily the freight facitly, the Change of guage building (in which a train goes to a shed and changes guages there from standard to narrow and vice versa) but will only do for International Night Trains and freight trains

AsiaShuttle, AsiaHSR will be standard guage

Freight trains and night trains will be standard and narrow due to the Change of Guage facitilies since japan is domainated with narrow guage so there will change for narrow guage and and leaving japan will change to standard but also they can do it on the korean side as well also china side as well

there will be a control center for the portals of each country to monitor tunnel activities and also to be safe and to make sure everything goes well for the normal routine

this will bring in alot of jobs to the Asian Countries and also bring in confedence and belief that Asia is a well better continent and probably also for economical purpose as well

i will provide a map of the portal of japan
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:39 PM   #125
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i choose convential high speed rail because the tunnels can be militple used and lower costs also since Maglev has to be built with its own power and such it needs a whole new infurasturctue

adding the cost that can be done with a shinkansen, TGV hybrid international HSR train so also to make it cost cheaper yet be convient

its cheaper then a maglev but i understand maglev is faster but since the Asiatunnels will not be only passengers but freight as well i had to put it as a shinkansen type not maglev sorry but it was my choice
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:56 PM   #126
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each of the Asiatunnels will have four tracks in four separte sections and some high speed crossovers when the tunnel is on land

AsiaHSR and the other rail services will be informed on what track to use and will be informed to see if alternative routes will be undertaken if the track needs repair then it will route to another track

this is done to be like the Channel tunnel but better in a way since it will have Four tracks in the tunnel instead of two for not only diverting repair on tracks or inspection but also for Slower freight trains, International Night Trains and Asiashuttle trains going on one track while the faster AsiaHSR will go another at the same time without delays

since i heard recently that Hong kong KCR is planning and building a high speed Rail Link from Shenzhen to Hong Kong the AsiaHSR will use that to get to hong kong sounds neat right similar to the CTRL in the UK cool
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Old August 18th, 2007, 04:16 AM   #127
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also it can help with the olympic games and other games that might help with the nations of Asia
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Old August 18th, 2007, 08:03 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
i choose convential high speed rail because the tunnels can be militple used and lower costs also since Maglev has to be built with its own power and such it needs a whole new infurasturctue

adding the cost that can be done with a shinkansen, TGV hybrid international HSR train so also to make it cost cheaper yet be convient

its cheaper then a maglev but i understand maglev is faster but since the Asiatunnels will not be only passengers but freight as well i had to put it as a shinkansen type not maglev sorry but it was my choice
What makes you think it is convenient from the passenger's perspective to take such a slow technology for such a long distance? It is not convenient, they will take air travel instead if you do it your way, because your way is not a smart way to go about it.

It isn't your choice either, unless you plan to pay for the construction of this out of your own pocket. You need something that is attractive to other people, not to you.

The tunnels are a whole new infrastructure regardless, so that argument doesn't fly.

Think a little, and try this: you might have tried to think about suspended maglev system combined with conventional underside bogies. This would allow a maglev track running above the train and suspending it for the long distances between countries crossing huge bodies of water in comparitively little time (probably less than 30 minutes, all of which would be spent in accelerating and braking, it would never reach top speed for the short distances (from a 5000km/h perspective)), and then, the tricky part, it is guided into a transition between ground rails and overhead maglev track. The transition would probably be about 1/3rd to 1/2 of a km in length, minimum (I would recommend making the transition integrated into a station), perhaps a separate longer one for freight trains since those trains can be a few kilometers long. I'd imagine you must have the full train supported by both modes along its entire length for the transition to take place successfully (you can't have it partially maglev and partially gravity/rail supported, the guidance computer systems would most likely have a fit).
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Last edited by TRZ; August 18th, 2007 at 08:12 AM.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 08:08 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
AsiaHSR will not be 24 hours with the japan section because of the Shinkansen strict maintance order and such so China, taiwan, russia, and South Korea will be 24 hours but not japan for that reason

since in japan it runs with the Shinkansen thru out the routes of part of the tokiado shinkansen and part of the Sanyo Shinkansen thats why

but there will be international stations in not only in japan but in other countries like china, russia, taiwan, south korea
Oh right, other countries don't carry out track-maintenance Dopey me!

All tracks require maintenance in some form or another. They don't all necessarily happen at night, but they all do take place. All rails must be inspected every so often, depending on how heavy their use is. In high-frequency use such as urban areas with mass transit trains, this inspection rate is once every 72 hours for all pieces of rail (or something close to this, it may vary somewhat).
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Old August 19th, 2007, 03:35 AM   #130
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it is attractive to people i mean alot of people like the shinkansen even though when it was first built it was a bold idea

maglev i am not saying its not attractive it is very attractive and very cool but its more expansive then a Convential High Speed Railway

but for the Asiatunnels i am not thinking of using it only for the AsiaHSR if that was the case i would have stuck with Maglev but since i wanted the Asiatunnels carrying not only AsiaHSR but a militiple of rail service to use the advantage of not having to build a tunnel for frieght and a tunnel for passenger

i sort of had to combined them and such remember i got my inspiration out of this proposal by the channel tunnel, eurostar, euroshuttle, freight thats why i need to stick remember though Coventential high speed railway is expansive but way cheaper then Maglev

even though maglev can go faster and it has been proven to do this yet the bad thing about it is the cost, it can't share with the other railways making it more expansive

the shanghai Maglev to the airport and to the CBD is on its own right of way which makes it fast and covienment but it was more expansive to be built

while regular high speed rail can share the right of way with other high speed railways and such and it has been proven

The LGV Nord is shared with the Eurostar, TGV, and Thalys trains

The LGV Est is shared with the TGV, and German ICE (InterCity Express) trains

ok i don't know what other HSR routes have shared railway services?

the northeast corridor in the united states even though its not built with high speed rail standards its but with coventential rail standards its one of the few "American" built HSR in the United states but its not a true HSR right of way plus the northeast corridor is shared with Amtrak, Regional Rails, Freight but like i said its not a true high speed right of way

and those are high speed trains and it can be shared while construction is expansive it can be shared and managed easily

The JR Central Tokiado Shinkansen and the JR West Sanyo Shinkansen can be shared with the AsiaHSR and it can be possible since its already built and already used by Tokiado Shinkansen and Sanyo Shinkansen so it is possible to use it i think?
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Old August 19th, 2007, 02:49 PM   #131
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The Shinkansen is attractive so long as it is competitive with air travel, which it is for short domestic trips. You are talking about international travel. Big difference.

Also, you completely failed to understand what I just said. I really don't care about your regurgitated arguments about how maglev is expensive - for the tunnels, it isn't, the costs between maglev and conventional rail would be about the same or possibly CHEAPER to do it maglev depending on how it is designed (because maglev infrastructure might be easier to assemble in prefabricated components than conventional rail). The biggest cost are the concrete casings of the tunnels themselves and their flood protection. What the actual infrastructure selected is does not matter that much in terms of capital investment. However, the return on the capital investment requires this be competitive with air travel - again, you fail to understand this blatantly obvious issue. Sharing infrastructure is unimportant with the dynamics at play here, except possibly for trips from Osaka to Pusan (small market).

Besides, I told you exactly how to do a maglev tunnel that can still share the infrastructure with conventional railways. You obviously do not understand a word I posted.
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Old August 19th, 2007, 05:01 PM   #132
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Not to mention this will never happen because of the political situation of Asia, Japan is not extremely friendly with their neighbors, it is all because of the history of the area. It will also cost too much, and no government will want to pay for it, because it would put them in severe debt. Plus it would cross a plate boundry, and it the plate moved, the tunnels would snap.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #133
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Like that hasn't been mentioned already more then ten times, mr. Songoten2554 is the only person who doesn't see that such a mega project is completely unrealistic.

Therefor I got a few basic questions:
1. How many people are now traveling between Japan and mainland Asia on an average day?
2. Have you seen any studies on how this will develop in the future?
3. How many services will run through the tunnel on normal working day?
4. What market section are you aiming for, business travelers or holiday travelers?

5. How many freight is transported by sea or air between Japan and China?
6. How will this develop in the future?
7. Will the freight trains compete with air or sea transport (in price)?

8. Do you already have an idea of how long it will take to construct this project?
9. Do you have any idea on your budget?
10. Who is going to pay for it all, private investors, the Asian taxpayers or the American taxpayers?

Maybe you want to asked this questions first before thinking of logos and layouts of stations in Tokyo.

One other question, why have you focussed with most of the details on Japan, why don't I see anything about stations in Seoul and Beijing?
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Old August 20th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #134
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5. How many freight is transported by sea or air between Japan and China?
6. How will this develop in the future?
7. Will the freight trains compete with air or sea transport (in price)?
Given the commanding dominance of sea freight's market share, I don't see how in the world the freight angle would be in any way worthwhile, even considering the rapid growth in China. It would have to link to North America for it to be even remotely worth it.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 04:44 PM   #135
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10. Who is going to pay for it all, private investors, the American taxpayers?

Maybe you want to asked this questions first before thinking of logos and layouts of stations in Tokyo.

One other question, why have you focussed with most of the details on Japan, why don't I see anything about stations in Seoul and Beijing?
Why would American taxpayers pay for this? There is no benefit of this for us.

Why focus on Japan, I wonder as well. Most non-Japanese Asians don't even want to go to Japan.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #136
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It would have to link to North America for it to be even remotely worth it.
I dont see that happening either. Thousands of miles of track would have to be built in the most remote area of the world. Nobody would ride a train from North America to Asia, because of the capital costs, the prices would be astronomical, and airfare would most likely be cheaper, faster as well.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 04:57 PM   #137
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I dont see that happening either. Thousands of miles of track would have to be built in the most remote area of the world. Nobody would ride a train from North America to Asia, because of the capital costs, the prices would be astronomical, and airfare would most likely be cheaper, faster as well.
Theorhetically, maglev can do it considerably faster. 3-5 times faster. However, they haven't figured out a way to do this safely yet.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 05:17 PM   #138
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What if a water maglev is designed, one that hovers over water. Only a small amount of time until completion!!!! You know what, why not develop a teleport system!!!
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Old August 20th, 2007, 05:23 PM   #139
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What if a water maglev is designed, one that hovers over water. Only a small amount of time until completion!!!!
Would never reach speeds fast enough. You don't understand, in order to be faster than air travel it must be in a vaccuum. Land or water, doesn't matter what it hovers on, it must be free of air resistence to reach speeds faster than aircraft.
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You know what, why not develop a teleport system!!!
Hey, I'm floating what engineers have in fact said might be possible, I'm not pulling sci-fi out of my ass here.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 06:28 PM   #140
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Would never reach speeds fast enough. You don't understand, in order to be faster than air travel it must be in a vaccuum. Land or water, doesn't matter what it hovers on, it must be free of air resistence to reach speeds faster than aircraft.

Hey, I'm floating what engineers have in fact said might be possible, I'm not pulling sci-fi out of my ass here.
Oops, I ment that as sarcasm, not to be taken seriously, I should have put a smiliy .
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