Super Air Craft Carrier thread - Page 22

***Matthieu*** · June 21st, 2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliant

No, well not only. The Harriers are in whats called Joint Force Harrier. The whole fleet is pooled in this. There are 70-80 in that. It consists of iirc 3 RAF and 2-3 Fleet Air Arm units, which are Naval Air Squadrons and part of the Royal Navy. On a given day the Navy might fly off the carriers, and on another the RAF might do so. The NAS also do their bit in Afghanistan for example. Hope that helped to explain the slightly confusing system.

Just recently a Harrier crashed in central Britain, the pilot (who luckily survived) was Navy.

I thought the Sea Harriers were retired and the navy was using loaning RAF harriers, maybe I was wrong. Here they say though the Sea Harriers are gone.
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/uk...ea_harrier.htm

Brilliant · June 21st, 2008, 07:04 PM

The Sea Harriers are gone, but the Harrier GR7/9s are not "RAF only", they are "joint" and are as much navy as they are RAF. The FAA remains with its NAS and markings, its own pilots etc... . Its just that RN pilots might do a typical RAF tasking such as in Afghanistan and RAF pilots might go on a carrier.

***Matthieu*** · June 21st, 2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliant

The Sea Harriers are gone, but the Harrier GR7/9s are not "RAF only", they are "joint" and are as much navy as they are RAF. The FAA remains with its NAS and markings, its own pilots etc... . Its just that RN pilots might do a typical RAF tasking such as in Afghanistan and RAF pilots might go on a carrier.

I guess it's a politicaly correct way to put it. Point is they are using RAF planes even though they are reaffected to the navy.

Brilliant · June 22nd, 2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

I guess it's a politicaly correct way to put it. Point is they are using RAF planes even though they are reaffected to the navy.

Well not in my opinion.

Manchester Planner · July 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM

Contracts signed! They are actually going to be built!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7486683.stm

I've been waiting for this for years. Now to wait until 2014 and the launching of HMS Queen Elizabeth. I just hope that our good Queen is still around to launch it!

The Royal Navy is on its way to having the world's second largest carrier fleet once more!

Manchester Planner · July 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM

Out of the way, Frenchies!

United Kingdom: 2x 65,000 tonne carriers = 130,000 tonne fleet
France: 1x 40,000 tonne carrier...

Zenith · July 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM

can someone tell me the actual logic of two Islands though. I understand that one is the flight tower, whilst the other handles general navigation and operations. However I keep reading or getting told that this idea is actually wasteful and outdated.

I do not claim to be an expert but maybe somebody could add their opinion or expertise?

Good news though!

Manchester Planner · July 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM

Eggs and basket leap to mind?

Zenith · July 4th, 2008, 08:14 PM

Well yes I see your point. Is the French carrier at serious risk of not going ahead then?

***Matthieu*** · July 4th, 2008, 08:48 PM

It's not cancelled officialy, it's back to studies because of issues with the design and the current price of oil. Decisions will be taken in 2011 to order it or no, now if you ask my opinion the current design, an adaptation from the PA2, is fried. It's going to be a different design now (if ordered, however Sarkozy said it will).

Criticism are:
- Conventional propulsion is expensiver than nuclear one with a barrel at 200$
- The cost of the ship... 3 billions €, for a capability barely superior to the CdG
- The anticipated fleet with the PA2 was 5 knots smaller than the current one with the CdG because of the refueling chain to the carrier (a lot more needy than other ships)
- It was needed to push the displacement to 75,000 tons... to carry the same amount of plane and missiles than the CdG and that only by giving up on some anti-air defences of the aircraft carrier (as you may have seen on the aster video in the Type45 thread the CdG has its own system adding to the fleet).

blahblah · July 4th, 2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenith

can someone tell me the actual logic of two Islands though. I understand that one is the flight tower, whilst the other handles general navigation and operations. However I keep reading or getting told that this idea is actually wasteful and outdated.

I do not claim to be an expert but maybe somebody could add their opinion or expertise?

Good news though!

I read somewhere that it makes deck space more efficient. Absolutely no idea why or how though!

madjackmcmad · July 4th, 2008, 09:14 PM

According to naval-technology.com.....

Advantages of the two island configuration are increased flight deck area, reduced air turbulence over the flight deck and increased flexibility of space allocation in the lower decks. The flight control centre in the aft island is in the optimum position for control of the critical aircraft approach and deck landings.

Zenith · July 4th, 2008, 09:20 PM

brilliant thanks

AXISPAW · July 5th, 2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manchester Planner

Contracts signed! They are actually going to be built!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7486683.stm

I've been waiting for this for years. Now to wait until 2014 and the launching of HMS Queen Elizabeth. I just hope that our good Queen is still around to launch it!

The Royal Navy is on its way to having the world's second largest carrier fleet once more!

your not the only one mate iv been waiting 8 years lol. these babies are going to be awesome. im def gonna try and make it for their launch..

JackSwan · July 5th, 2008, 12:50 AM

the very first thread i ever started on this forum (well, its forerunner) was about the CVF.

Engels · July 5th, 2008, 01:48 AM

Well it was 1998 when the Strategic Defense review first proposed 2 new large carriers and it has taken 10 years to get to here. I guess it would always have taken at least 5 years to get to this point but surely it needn't have been 10?

Zim Flyer · July 5th, 2008, 11:19 AM

Does anyone know what the construction time table is, ie when will the first steel be cut?

Splish · July 5th, 2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

Does anyone know what the construction time table is, ie when will the first steel be cut?

August 2008.

Zim Flyer · July 5th, 2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splish

August 2008.

cheers Splish, that is excellent news.

One of the things I like about the aircraft carrier project is the way it will provide an awful lot of work for key areas like Barrow. In addition I love the plan to use the central body that has been created to build the aircraft carriers to bid for work from other countries. So fingers crossed this could be the start of something really big over the next fifty years.

blahblah · July 5th, 2008, 01:51 PM

Absolutely. We may even start building cruise ships in the UK again after these boats are complete. It'll prove to the likes of P&O, Cunard etc that we have enough skilled people in this country to build large ship structures. The interiors can be done by anyone who's done a 5* hotel interior.

Be nice to see the likes of Harland & Wolff, Camel Laird et el coming back to life.

June 21st, 2008, 07:04 PM	#422
Brilliant Hmmmm Bacon Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Munich/Royston Posts: 1,710	The Sea Harriers are gone, but the Harrier GR7/9s are not "RAF only", they are "joint" and are as much navy as they are RAF. The FAA remains with its NAS and markings, its own pilots etc... . Its just that RN pilots might do a typical RAF tasking such as in Afghanistan and RAF pilots might go on a carrier. __________________ Seperatist, seperatist, hear what I have to say, the United Kingdom is here to stay.

July 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM	#426
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,130	Out of the way, Frenchies! United Kingdom: 2x 65,000 tonne carriers = 130,000 tonne fleet France: 1x 40,000 tonne carrier... Last edited by Manchester Planner; July 4th, 2008 at 08:08 PM.

July 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM	#427
Zenith Confused Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plymouth Posts: 4,976	can someone tell me the actual logic of two Islands though. I understand that one is the flight tower, whilst the other handles general navigation and operations. However I keep reading or getting told that this idea is actually wasteful and outdated. I do not claim to be an expert but maybe somebody could add their opinion or expertise? Good news though! __________________ Zenith could turn me gay. You could put that in your signature, 'cept the bastids won't let us do that anymore..

July 4th, 2008, 08:14 PM	#429
Zenith Confused Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plymouth Posts: 4,976	Well yes I see your point. Is the French carrier at serious risk of not going ahead then? __________________ Zenith could turn me gay. You could put that in your signature, 'cept the bastids won't let us do that anymore..

July 4th, 2008, 08:48 PM	#430
*Matthieu* Administrateur Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tarbes, the capital of the world Posts: 9,971	It's not cancelled officialy, it's back to studies because of issues with the design and the current price of oil. Decisions will be taken in 2011 to order it or no, now if you ask my opinion the current design, an adaptation from the PA2, is fried. It's going to be a different design now (if ordered, however Sarkozy said it will). Criticism are: - Conventional propulsion is expensiver than nuclear one with a barrel at 200$ - The cost of the ship... 3 billions €, for a capability barely superior to the CdG - The anticipated fleet with the PA2 was 5 knots smaller than the current one with the CdG because of the refueling chain to the carrier (a lot more needy than other ships) - It was needed to push the displacement to 75,000 tons... to carry the same amount of plane and missiles than the CdG and that only by giving up on some anti-air defences of the aircraft carrier (as you may have seen on the aster video in the Type45 thread the CdG has its own system adding to the fleet). __________________ Midi-Pyrénées, it's bigger than The Netherlands Skyscraperjobs.net

July 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM	#425
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,130	Contracts signed! They are actually going to be built! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7486683.stm I've been waiting for this for years. Now to wait until 2014 and the launching of HMS Queen Elizabeth. I just hope that our good Queen is still around to launch it! The Royal Navy is on its way to having the world's second largest carrier fleet once more!

July 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM	#428
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,130	Eggs and basket leap to mind?

July 4th, 2008, 09:14 PM	#432
madjackmcmad Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,459	According to naval-technology.com..... Advantages of the two island configuration are increased flight deck area, reduced air turbulence over the flight deck and increased flexibility of space allocation in the lower decks. The flight control centre in the aft island is in the optimum position for control of the critical aircraft approach and deck landings.

July 4th, 2008, 09:20 PM	#433
Zenith Confused Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plymouth Posts: 4,976	brilliant thanks __________________ Zenith could turn me gay. You could put that in your signature, 'cept the bastids won't let us do that anymore..

July 5th, 2008, 12:50 AM	#435
JackSwan click click Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Suffolk, England Posts: 4,701	the very first thread i ever started on this forum (well, its forerunner) was about the CVF. __________________ EST. 1728

July 5th, 2008, 01:48 AM	#436
Engels Head Brum Heart Amsterdam Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 3,234	Well it was 1998 when the Strategic Defense review first proposed 2 new large carriers and it has taken 10 years to get to here. I guess it would always have taken at least 5 years to get to this point but surely it needn't have been 10? __________________ "Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it"

July 5th, 2008, 11:19 AM	#437
Zim Flyer Rock Lord Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stoke/Blackpool Posts: 12,271	Does anyone know what the construction time table is, ie when will the first steel be cut? __________________ For all the latest construction projects in Blackpool, we have all the news on the Blackpool forum: http://liveinblackpool.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=7 Last edited by Zim Flyer; July 5th, 2008 at 11:29 AM.

July 5th, 2008, 01:51 PM	#440
blahblah Ready For Change Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Greater Birmingham Posts: 3,144	Absolutely. We may even start building cruise ships in the UK again after these boats are complete. It'll prove to the likes of P&O, Cunard etc that we have enough skilled people in this country to build large ship structures. The interiors can be done by anyone who's done a 5* hotel interior. Be nice to see the likes of Harland & Wolff, Camel Laird et el coming back to life.

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