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Old August 31st, 2009, 03:56 PM   #41
www.sercan.de
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Sorry, forgot this one

21.04.2009
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Originally Posted by Dinuś View Post


Europe, Asia now connected by Marmaray tube


The Marmaray Project for connecting the European and Asian sides of İstanbul with a railway under the Bosporus has seen a breakthrough, as a connection has been made between 11 underwater tubes, completing the creation of a line connecting the two continents.



One of the few underwater tube projects in the world, construction on the Marmaray tunnel is taking place 60 meters beneath the surface of the Bosporus. With one stage complete, preparations and final calculations are now being made prior to laying tracks and beginning electromechanical work. Eighty percent of the work to complete the connection of the 11 different tubes that make up the tunnel is complete.

According to officials working on the project, most of the work on the Asian side has been completed, but work on the European side is being slowed by archaeological finds.

The Turkish engineers working on what some have called the project of the century are confident about the future of Turkish-run projects requiring engineering expertise.

Sercan Öztürk, one of the Turkish engineers working on the project, says Turkey no longer needs to rely on the expertise of foreign engineers for such large-scale projects. “We are self-reliant now. We don’t lag behind anyone in terms of brains; the advantage that the Japanese have is technology and financing. Otherwise, this project wouldn’t be possible,” he says.



Another engineer on the Marmaray tunnel, Tayfun Karakaya, also believes Turkey produces enough domestic talent to accomplish such projects -- but he emphasizes that in terms of work discipline and safety, there are models and techniques that Turks can learn from the Japanese. Turkey also needs to make progress in terms of the equipment foundation for grander projects, he notes, saying, “We don’t need foreign engineers, but technological devices and equipment.”

Hasan Gökdere, an engineer who has been working on the project for over four years, says that in this time period he’s gained 10 years’ worth of experience. He attributes this to the work model and discipline implemented in the project, and says that there should be no doubt that the project’s Turkish engineers are capable of completing the job themselves. In recent months, as progress has been made and the workload decreased, many of the Japanese workers have returned to Japan, he notes, adding that in May five more will be going home.

Turkcell wireless coverage available in tunnel

Inside Marmaray, the world’s deepest submerged tube tunnel, there aren’t any cell phone reception problems. An agreement with Turkcell secured the installation of two reception bases in the tube, to ensure that in the event of any accidents or malfunctions of walkie-talkie systems, workers would be able to maintain vital communication amongst themselves.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...ay&link=173146
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Old September 1st, 2009, 08:48 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
Metro line will be 500km by 2023
Don't know if it is a lot for a city
Sorry, but that doesn't sound feasible. Perhaps the total municipal railroad network will be that long (metro + trams + trains), is that what you mean? Currently there is the M1 line, which is 32 km (including the T4 branch); M2 is 16 km - increasing to 23 km when the extension to Yenikapi is finished. On the Asian side, the branch from Kadıköy to Kartal will, as far as I know, add about 22 km to the system once it's finished in 3-4 years' time. That's 77 km combined. You're not telling us they'll build another 420 km of metro line between 2012 and 2023???

Last edited by hans280; September 1st, 2009 at 10:48 AM.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 02:22 PM   #43
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Actually i just read that number
http://www.istanbulyeditepe.net/Ista...o_haritasi.jpg
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Old September 1st, 2009, 05:48 PM   #44
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Hum... I don't read Turkish, but even allowing for this the map makes me slightly dizzy. It looks like they're planning a total of eight lines with a combined length of about 300 km? The map further makes reference to light rails and tram lines but not, as far as I can see, main railway lines.

That said, some of the lines look decidedly strange for a metro system. I'd have thought the first 3-4 lines would criss-cross through the city centre, connecting it within itself and with the inner suburbs. Instead, several of the lines look largely suburban, which would lead me to assume that they are essentially light rail rather than metro. But I could be woefully wrong. Also, there's a mind-numbing reference to a new line connecting Besiktas with Kadaköy. Er... that would involve a second tunnel under Bosporus or Marmaray. Or, is it a second line borrowing the pre-existent tunnel? If so, how much of the kilometrage may involve double counting?

It occurs to me that a more "authoriative" description of the plans may be the one found on the City of Istanbul's website: http://www.ibb.gov.tr/tr-TR/kurumsal.../AnaSayfa.aspx. Again, I don't speak Turkish, but as far as I can make out they're speaking of around 75 km metro line(s) in place and under construction, plus an additional 78 km of line under preparation?

Last edited by hans280; September 1st, 2009 at 06:18 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 02:06 PM   #45
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Hans you are right.
It also includs other rail transport systems.

Just found this one. Fan made but only metro.
2008
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3...asimim2008.jpg


2017
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6...asimim2017.jpg
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 03:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Sorry, but that doesn't sound feasible. Perhaps the total municipal railroad network will be that long (metro + trams + trains), is that what you mean? Currently there is the M1 line, which is 32 km (including the T4 branch); M2 is 16 km - increasing to 23 km when the extension to Yenikapi is finished. On the Asian side, the branch from Kadıköy to Kartal will, as far as I know, add about 22 km to the system once it's finished in 3-4 years' time. That's 77 km combined. You're not telling us they'll build another 420 km of metro line between 2012 and 2023???
Right now u/c:

1)Marmaray: 78 km (to be completed in 2012)
2)Kadiköy-Kartal 22 km (to be completed in 2010 maybe 2011)
3)Levent-Seyrantepe (Galatasaray stadium) (nearly completed)
4)Levent-Darüssakafa 6 km (2010)
6)Esenler-Bagcilar (2010)
7)Bagcilar - Olimpik Stad (2010)
8)Bagcilar - Basaksehir (2010)
9)Sishane - Yenikapi (2012)
10) Aksaray - Yenikapi (1 station extension only)

I'm tool azy to look for the lenght for all lines that are u/c

Urbanrail.net doesn't show all the constructions in Istanbul although I told the webmaster about the constructions but I think with the current speed it is a reachable goal.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 04:28 PM   #47
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asked the guy who made the 2008 and 2017map
according to him: 2023 (com - u/c - app - pro)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/173...et20092023.jpg

But i do not know if he also included lightrain.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 08:58 PM   #48
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Thanks, this is very interesting. I feel vindicated on some counts, but on one point I definitely stand corrected: the plan is to tie the Istanbul area together with a metro (and light rail?) network that is multi-nodal. I hadn't imagined that. With my West European background I was deeply in the mindset of largely monocentric networks, where the first priority is to ensure that no dwelling in the city centre is more than 500 metres from a metro station BEFORE thinking of prolonging lines into the suburbs. In Paris and London, etc this makes perfect sense: there's a density in the city centre unlike any other residental or business area of the agglomeration. But I guess in Istanbul (low to medium-height within the old walls; the Halic cutting through the centre; the business area around Taksim on a rock knoll where metro construction costs a fortune...) it makes perfect sense to spread out the network from the beginning.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 09:22 PM   #49
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well this doesn't work in Istanbul. As you know Istanbul is divided by the Bosphorus so there are at least two "independent" cities and those "cities" have again many central areas. Unlike Paris, London or Moscow Istanbul doesn't have a core, Istanbul is more like Ruhrgebiet consisting of many cities with independent centre. So the first step is to connect these centres with eachother and to other big suburbs. Sometimes I think Istanbul should build subruban lines instead of these subway lines but again you'll need too many destinations for a suburban line, you need subway which accelerates faster and stops in shorter distance.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 09:24 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
asked the guy who made the 2008 and 2017map
according to him: 2023 (com - u/c - app - pro)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/173...et20092023.jpg

But i do not know if he also included lightrain.
Lights rails aren't on the agenda of Istanbul anymore, any new metro line is build to cope with high capacity use.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 10:18 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Unlike Paris, London or Moscow Istanbul doesn't have a core, Istanbul is more like Ruhrgebiet consisting of many cities with independent centre. So the first step is to connect these centres with eachother and to other big suburbs.
Yeah, that was precisely the impression I was getting: Notwithstanding its old town Istanbul is really much more comparable with a modern American agglomeration like Los Angeles. Now, LA does not have much of a metro network, but perhaps we can liken the plans for Istanbul with what LA MIGHT have if or when they get moving.
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Old September 3rd, 2009, 08:29 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Sorry, but that doesn't sound feasible. Perhaps the total municipal railroad network will be that long (metro + trams + trains), is that what you mean? Currently there is the M1 line, which is 32 km (including the T4 branch); M2 is 16 km - increasing to 23 km when the extension to Yenikapi is finished. On the Asian side, the branch from Kadıköy to Kartal will, as far as I know, add about 22 km to the system once it's finished in 3-4 years' time. That's 77 km combined. You're not telling us they'll build another 420 km of metro line between 2012 and 2023???
Actually, they claim they can do 618 kms.
Well, the municipality has big plans. Yes, the number concerns all kinds of traffic on rails and on wires, metros, all trams- modern or nostalgic, the exisiting and future banliyö (local train lines), the old and new tünel (underground funicular lines), and füniküler (cable cars). Counting them all, the municipality counts 144,73 km of existing network (half of which is the banliyö lines), and 75,5 km under construction. Another 400 km of raillines, mostly metro, some trams, for which construction has not begun, are supposed to appear somehow between now and 2023. Nobody can understand how the municipality wants to finance or organize this, and yes, judging by their present performance, we can count ourselves lucky if the present lines are built to their full length.
As for the relation, the aimed for 600 km of rail lines would compare roughly to Paris, so they would be adequate for a city the size of Istanbul.
Read more about this at
http://www.ibb.gov.tr/tr-TR/Pages/Ya...2004-2009.aspx
(the section about ulasim) if you wish. Unfortunately I did not manage to post some of their interesting graphics to here. Maybe someboy else can.
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Old September 3rd, 2009, 11:12 PM   #53
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Effendi, sorry but you ARE talking out of the top of your hat. Comparable to Paris? Er... currently (without waiting for any extensions between now and, uhm, 2023... ) the Paris metro network is 214 km long; the RER suburban train network is 587 km long; the tramway lines account for a paltry 40 km; and the Transilien convensional Paris Region train network, for which I do not have the estimated length, includes 30 lines starting from six different terminus stations. All this information is freely available on Wikipedia.

Based on this I confidently state that the network is already far longer than 1,000 km. And, it will be supplemented by four new tramlines, a prolongation of four metro lines and a prolongation of one RER line within the next 5-6 years.

Last edited by hans280; September 4th, 2009 at 03:59 AM.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:11 AM   #54
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After completion, the usage of rail transportation in Istanbul is predicted to rise from 3.6% to 27.7%, which would see Istanbul's percentage rate of rail transportation usage as the third highest in the world, behind Tokyo (60%) and New York City (31%).
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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:15 AM   #55
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Electric Multiple Units for the Bosporus Line Halkali-Gebze



Bosporus Line Alignment



(Second from right, to the left)

Yeo-Sung Lee, Executive Vice Chairman & CEO of Hyundai Rotem, Binali Yildirim Head of Ministry of Transportation, Ahmet Arslan, Head of the Directorate of Railways,Harbors and Airport Construction of Turkey, signing contract






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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:20 AM   #56
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EUROPE meets ASIA underwater under the Bosphorus.Railway for metro and highspeed train.

Documentation on Discovery Channel.Serie : Mega constructions of the world.

In Spanish










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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:57 PM   #57
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I stand corrected on the comparison with Paris, Hans; I fell for the Istanbul municipality propaganda which compares its own hodge-podge of incompatable rail systems with the Paris metro only, not incl. the RER, local trains, trams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messi View Post
Lights rails aren't on the agenda of Istanbul anymore, any new metro line is build to cope with high capacity use.
I wish that were so: of the 4 lines where construction is due to start next,
that is:
1. Üsküdar-Ümraniye-Çekmeköy Metro line : 19 Km. 17 stations.

2. Bakırköy İDO Sahili-Bağcılar (Kirazlı) Metro lines: 9Km. 8 stations.

3. Kabataş-Beşiktaş-Alibeyköy-Mahmutbey Metro line : 25 Km. 19 stations

4. Bakırköy- Beylikdüzü Metro line: 25 Km. 18 stations.

both the Üsküdar and the Beylikdüzü line are planned as light capacity metro. It makes no sense, as the Beylikdüzü line is actually a branch of a future extension of the existing line M2, which is real metro. Therefore, the Bakirköy line is destined to remain a stub, with no connection to the city center.
Light capacity metro is a solution for cities around 1 million inhabitants or so, such as Cologne or Bursa, but they are insufficient for mega cities.
It is true that the muncipality has moved its metro construction efforts to the outer districts. This is mostly because construction has been very slow in the center, because of long breaks to accomadate for archaeological digs, plus almost inevitable rows about how to preserve the cultural heritage. The extension across the Golden Horn of M2 has been stalled for years because of the municipality's plan of an oversized bridge which would block the view of the major mosques of the city. In the suburbs, there is no skyline to be respected, land acquisition is cheap, and chances of archaeological finds are rare. While it might seem laudable to connect emerging neighborhoods such as ikitelli to rail, many of us would of course be happy if the municipality would not abandon the inner city to permanent traffic jam and especially for the above listed Üsküdar and Besiktas lines to be built. Let us cross our fingers.
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Old September 5th, 2009, 01:05 AM   #58
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light rail is not light metro. Light rail is meant to describe tram lines. There isn't such a thing as light metro, this may be a techincal term. No city in Europe has two kinds discribtion of metro such as metro and light metro. Some lines may have higher capacity than other but this doesn't make other lines "less" metro. Istanbul used this term for a decade in order to distinguish both lines from each other but now the official term is M1 and M2.

People call that "metro" in Germany and not "extreme light metro"

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Old September 5th, 2009, 03:24 PM   #59
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[QUOTE=Messi;42608884]light rail is not light metro. Light rail is meant to describe tram lines. There isn't such a thing as light metro, this may be a techincal term. No city in Europe has two kinds discribtion of metro such as metro and light metro. Some lines may have higher capacity than other but this doesn't make other lines "less" metro. Istanbul used this term for a decade in order to distinguish both lines from each other but now the official term is M1 and M2.

People call that "metro" in Germany and not "extreme light metro"

Nope, let's be specific here. Technically, the "light Metro" is an overlong tram on a track that is completely seperated from other traffic. The coaches used on Istanbul's M1 were formally used on Tram line 1. The technique evolved in other cities where existing trams were upgraded by going through a tunnel for a short bit in congested downtown areas before resurfacing and continuing on tram lines. People in Germany are aware of the difference, and citizens of Hamburg or Berlin (cities with "real" metro) sneer at the funny underground trams of Cologne or Stuttgart, which are officially called "stadtbahn" (urban rail) and not "U-Bahn" (subway, metro). In Istanbul, light rail was adopted as a cheap and easy to build solution; later the muncipality started building its second line as "real" metro, having double the potential capacity of the former. The incompatibility of the 2 systems will become problematic once the 2 systems have interchange stations. Imagine in 2011 people trying to go home after a sold out match in Olympic stadium. They take the high capacity metro (70,000 passengers per hour) for 6 stations, where the line ends and they have to change to the low capacity line to Esenler Central Bus Station (35,000 passenger/h). Only half of the incoming passengers will fit into this connecting metro, and all the while, the metro from Olympic Stadium is bringing in new fans on their way home, and piling up at the interchange station, because there is no other way to continue. That, plus exchange of carriages, alternative routes... Mixing up two incompatible systems, especially now in its pioneer phase is not wise for Istanbul Metro.
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Old September 5th, 2009, 05:44 PM   #60
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Light metro is still not light rail, this is for sure and among the projects shown above there isn't any plan to build a light rail, those shown above are all metro lines and if you divide metro lines in two groups such as "high capacity" metro and "low capacity" metro this is something else but you can't say they are light rail because their capacity is lower than other lines.

The same cars as in M1 are used in Vienna as well but no one calls them light metro there. I haven't seen any city beside istanbul that used to distinguish between metro lines due to different capacities. Anyway it's M1 and M2 now like everywhere else and not light metro and metro.

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