TAMPA | The Epicurean Hotel (by Bern's) | 5 stories | 145 Rooms | U/C - Page 3

dmpeek77 · February 26th, 2008, 06:58 PM

Nice... now a dirt lot with a large parking garage... Beautiful

jonknee · February 26th, 2008, 07:29 PM

Well to be fair it was a dirt lot before, one that was too small for parking as it was. They could add some landscaping and it won't be too bad. It's right against the Crosstown anyway, not exactly a great view either way.

dmpeek77 · February 27th, 2008, 07:42 PM

I would think you would get financing before constructing any part of the project but that's just me. Now they have a parking garage sitting there which will prob sit for 5 years before anything happens.

Just seems quite a few of these projects which are underway, fall apart with cranes and dirt moving. I am not an expert in financing but seems like a waste of time and money to start work on projects which never materialize... examples, Trump Tower, The Project that was on Gandy and Westshore forgot the name and now this project.

jonknee · February 27th, 2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmpeek77

I would think you would get financing before constructing any part of the project but that's just me. Now they have a parking garage sitting there which will prob sit for 5 years before anything happens.

Just seems quite a few of these projects which are underway, fall apart with cranes and dirt moving. I am not an expert in financing but seems like a waste of time and money to start work on projects which never materialize... examples, Trump Tower, The Project that was on Gandy and Westshore forgot the name and now this project.

But in Bern's case they really needed the parking anyway. Between Bern's and SideBern's, there are a lot of cars to park. Bern's has 40 people just in the kitchen during the evening.

Atl Dan (via Tampa) · February 27th, 2008, 09:03 PM

Like I said before I really wish this had gone through, but alas thats the market today. A friend of mine in real estate lending for a major southeast bank (rhymes with funtrust) saw this whole mess coming about 18 months ago. They were starting to really crunch numbers and trying to make sure if they did the loan it was damn near guaranteed. So basically they stopped doing large scale real estate loans 18 months ago.

But I don't think it would kill Bern's to line the perimeter of the dirt lot with better landscaping. Something to screen off the lot would be nice. I don't think they could do anything formal because the city plan review would kill them and they would probably lose spaces.

Jasonhouse · February 27th, 2008, 11:22 PM

I wonder if the garage went through as its own standalone project with the city, or if it was part of a single overall plan, and is thus just a step in the process? And how's that work with the C/O for the structure?

Surely the city codes make stipulations that in such occasions as this, the property owner is obligated to ensure compliance with both the city codes, and the rules of the historic district they are a part of?

Indeed, they should be required either to finish the facade of the garage, or at least spruce up the rest of the parcel to shield the garage from view in the interim before construction resumes. Everyone else has to maintain their property and keep it up to snuff in SoHo, so should Bern's.

Atl Dan (via Tampa) · February 28th, 2008, 03:06 PM

I'd bet it was a separate permit. They probably cobbled together the money for it and then were relying on bank financing for the hotel. I would also bet that because it was never supposed to be viewed from the street that there are no plans for finishing the elevation and any attempt to do so now will be a cluster F of a half assed design. Whenever I am working on a large project I always divide up my permits so that the construction side can get started on something while I finish up the details on the major portion of the job. Generally site work permits are done that way because they take so long. It took about a year for all the various approvals for the site work on a townhome development I worked on in Pennyless Park. We basically told the site designer how large the buildings would be and where they would be and he took care of the rest (h2o retaining, drainage, lighting etc...). The rest of us could then work on the details of the buildings. So long story short, get used to the big concrete box.

FloridaFuture · January 21st, 2009, 01:56 AM

Bern's Sued Over Food-Themed Hotel Project
By TOM BRENNAN | The Tampa Tribune
Published: January 20, 2009

TAMPA - The consulting firm behind Bern's proposed food-themed luxury hotel has sued the restaurant, saying it's still owed about $380,000.

Beck Development LLC sued Bern's Properties LLC and Bern's Steak House in Hillsborough County Circuit Court.

Beck was the development services manager for The Epicurean, a boutique condo-hotel that was to be built across from the landmark restaurant on South Howard Avenue.

The 75-unit project has been on hold since February, when Bern's owner David Laxer announced he had been unable to secure financing.

Laxer couldn't be reached for comment today.

Beck officials said they completed 90 percent of the contracted work but were only paid for about 45 percent. They said they finished the preliminary design and construction drawings and helped shepherd the project through city regulatory agencies, according to the lawsuit filed this month.

Beck wants a construction lien placed on the restaurant and is seeking $334,058 in unpaid services, $34,066 in additional services and $4,651 in interest.

The hotel was to feature a spa, wine store, rooftop pool, sun deck and parking for about 380 vehicles. It would host wine and cooking demonstrations and a culinary school.

The condo concept meant units would be available for purchase in the mid-$200,000 range. Owners would have access to the unit 45 days a year and also share in the rental income.

The plan was to have the hotel open by the Super Bowl on Feb. 1.

http://southtampa2.tbo.com/content/2...-project/news/

DShenise · January 21st, 2009, 04:35 PM

At an average of $35.00 a steak dinner, thats about 10850 steak dinners to pay that off. But if you consider they are open 365 days a year, they should be able to pay it off via only 29 diners a night. Assuming drinks, appetizers, and deserts can carry the rest of the overhead, I don't see where they can't come up with the cash for the services they were rendered.

jonknee · January 21st, 2009, 04:58 PM

When was the last time your bill for a steak dinner at Bern's was $35?

randommichael · January 21st, 2009, 06:30 PM

Never.

DShenise · January 21st, 2009, 06:57 PM

I said just the steak (and I check the current menu for a medium to low priced steak). Now if you want soup, salad, appetizer, drinks, deserts, I expect about $125-$175 per person depending on how much they drink (I'm usually good for two beers with dinner). So again the calcs work out to $380K divided by $35 per low end steak divided by 365 days in a year = 29.7 steaks sold per night to pay off that amount. If you consider they ONLY have 29.7 seats in the chairs per night, each spending my $175 per seat low ball estimate they would earn ~ $18.97M.

Which means that they ought to be able to pay their design/build firm for the work they produced.

jonknee · January 21st, 2009, 07:19 PM

Pro-tip for those of you like me that enjoy Bern's but don't enjoy paying for Bern's, you can get a *killer* steak sandwich or burger if you sit at the bar. Comes with fries or onion rings and costs like $12. It's the trimmings from their really expensive steaks and like everything else there, cooked to perfection.

DShenise · January 21st, 2009, 09:11 PM

Back in my single days "sitting at the bar" was one of the best ways to class-up an evening and save a few dollars. Generally it was pretty easy to meet women at some of the nicer places in town and generally by the time conversation started going in the right direction, I would be off the hook for buying two dinners as the woman I was talking to had either finished dinner as well, was just interested in drinks or was about to eat with friends and wanted to meet up with me later. Made my days in grad school much more interesting.

Jasonhouse · January 21st, 2009, 09:27 PM

lol... I've done something similar to that... Though in my case, it was more like, go get dinner some place else, and then go to Bern's for dessert.

TampaMike · March 1st, 2009, 08:17 PM

Any updates on this one? Is the project basically dead or just on hold? Because the feel from the last article made it feel like Bern's wasn't holding up.

tampasteve · March 2nd, 2009, 01:55 PM

Berns is fine. As for the hotel...I beleive that they lost financing. Essentially this project is dead. Now Bern's has a large garage for their restaurant. Eventually it is likely something will get built on to of the garage, but not for 5 years, IMO.

Steve

jonknee · March 2nd, 2009, 05:17 PM

Bern's actually just got rated the top steakhouse in America by Rachael Ray's magazine (I loathe her, but the mag has a 1.5m+ circulation). So yea, doing well.

TampaMike · March 2nd, 2009, 05:46 PM

That's good. Shame the hotel didn't happy though. I don't expect them to give up either on their plans, just thought the situation was worse than expected.

WeatherChannel · March 2nd, 2009, 07:27 PM

They should at least paint it nice and landscape it or FINE them! They have the money.

February 26th, 2008, 07:29 PM	#42
jonknee Downtown resident Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,285 Likes (Received): 0	Well to be fair it was a dirt lot before, one that was too small for parking as it was. They could add some landscaping and it won't be too bad. It's right against the Crosstown anyway, not exactly a great view either way. __________________ What I've been up to in the kitchen

January 21st, 2009, 04:58 PM	#50
jonknee Downtown resident Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,285 Likes (Received): 0	When was the last time your bill for a steak dinner at Bern's was $35? __________________ What I've been up to in the kitchen

January 21st, 2009, 07:19 PM	#53
jonknee Downtown resident Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,285 Likes (Received): 0	Pro-tip for those of you like me that enjoy Bern's but don't enjoy paying for Bern's, you can get a killer steak sandwich or burger if you sit at the bar. Comes with fries or onion rings and costs like $12. It's the trimmings from their really expensive steaks and like everything else there, cooked to perfection. __________________ What I've been up to in the kitchen

March 1st, 2009, 08:17 PM	#56
TampaMike Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 6,142 Likes (Received): 5	Any updates on this one? Is the project basically dead or just on hold? Because the feel from the last article made it feel like Bern's wasn't holding up. __________________ Corporations Are People Too - Mitt Romney For the People that dress up like Corporations.

March 2nd, 2009, 01:55 PM	#57
tampasteve Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,365 Likes (Received): 2	Berns is fine. As for the hotel...I beleive that they lost financing. Essentially this project is dead. Now Bern's has a large garage for their restaurant. Eventually it is likely something will get built on to of the garage, but not for 5 years, IMO. Steve __________________ Homer: Face it, Marge, Catholics rule! We got Boston, South America, the good part of Ireland, and we're makin' serious inroads in Mozambique, baby! "My badger's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

February 26th, 2008, 06:58 PM	#41
dmpeek77 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago also Tampa Bay Posts: 206 Likes (Received): 0	Nice... now a dirt lot with a large parking garage... Beautiful

February 27th, 2008, 07:42 PM	#43
dmpeek77 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago also Tampa Bay Posts: 206 Likes (Received): 0	I would think you would get financing before constructing any part of the project but that's just me. Now they have a parking garage sitting there which will prob sit for 5 years before anything happens. Just seems quite a few of these projects which are underway, fall apart with cranes and dirt moving. I am not an expert in financing but seems like a waste of time and money to start work on projects which never materialize... examples, Trump Tower, The Project that was on Gandy and Westshore forgot the name and now this project.

February 27th, 2008, 09:03 PM	#45
Atl Dan (via Tampa) Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 150 Likes (Received): 0	Like I said before I really wish this had gone through, but alas thats the market today. A friend of mine in real estate lending for a major southeast bank (rhymes with funtrust) saw this whole mess coming about 18 months ago. They were starting to really crunch numbers and trying to make sure if they did the loan it was damn near guaranteed. So basically they stopped doing large scale real estate loans 18 months ago. But I don't think it would kill Bern's to line the perimeter of the dirt lot with better landscaping. Something to screen off the lot would be nice. I don't think they could do anything formal because the city plan review would kill them and they would probably lose spaces.

February 27th, 2008, 11:22 PM	#46
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,272 Likes (Received): 8	I wonder if the garage went through as its own standalone project with the city, or if it was part of a single overall plan, and is thus just a step in the process? And how's that work with the C/O for the structure? Surely the city codes make stipulations that in such occasions as this, the property owner is obligated to ensure compliance with both the city codes, and the rules of the historic district they are a part of? Indeed, they should be required either to finish the facade of the garage, or at least spruce up the rest of the parcel to shield the garage from view in the interim before construction resumes. Everyone else has to maintain their property and keep it up to snuff in SoHo, so should Bern's.

February 28th, 2008, 03:06 PM	#47
Atl Dan (via Tampa) Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 150 Likes (Received): 0	I'd bet it was a separate permit. They probably cobbled together the money for it and then were relying on bank financing for the hotel. I would also bet that because it was never supposed to be viewed from the street that there are no plans for finishing the elevation and any attempt to do so now will be a cluster F of a half assed design. Whenever I am working on a large project I always divide up my permits so that the construction side can get started on something while I finish up the details on the major portion of the job. Generally site work permits are done that way because they take so long. It took about a year for all the various approvals for the site work on a townhome development I worked on in Pennyless Park. We basically told the site designer how large the buildings would be and where they would be and he took care of the rest (h2o retaining, drainage, lighting etc...). The rest of us could then work on the details of the buildings. So long story short, get used to the big concrete box.

January 21st, 2009, 01:56 AM	#48
FloridaFuture Former Mod Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tampa/Gainesville Posts: 5,234 Likes (Received): 0	Bern's Sued Over Food-Themed Hotel Project By TOM BRENNAN \| The Tampa Tribune Published: January 20, 2009 TAMPA - The consulting firm behind Bern's proposed food-themed luxury hotel has sued the restaurant, saying it's still owed about $380,000. Beck Development LLC sued Bern's Properties LLC and Bern's Steak House in Hillsborough County Circuit Court. Beck was the development services manager for The Epicurean, a boutique condo-hotel that was to be built across from the landmark restaurant on South Howard Avenue. The 75-unit project has been on hold since February, when Bern's owner David Laxer announced he had been unable to secure financing. Laxer couldn't be reached for comment today. Beck officials said they completed 90 percent of the contracted work but were only paid for about 45 percent. They said they finished the preliminary design and construction drawings and helped shepherd the project through city regulatory agencies, according to the lawsuit filed this month. Beck wants a construction lien placed on the restaurant and is seeking $334,058 in unpaid services, $34,066 in additional services and $4,651 in interest. The hotel was to feature a spa, wine store, rooftop pool, sun deck and parking for about 380 vehicles. It would host wine and cooking demonstrations and a culinary school. The condo concept meant units would be available for purchase in the mid-$200,000 range. Owners would have access to the unit 45 days a year and also share in the rental income. The plan was to have the hotel open by the Super Bowl on Feb. 1. http://southtampa2.tbo.com/content/2...-project/news/

January 21st, 2009, 04:35 PM	#49
DShenise Designer, 1404designs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Monica Posts: 1,133 Likes (Received): 0	At an average of $35.00 a steak dinner, thats about 10850 steak dinners to pay that off. But if you consider they are open 365 days a year, they should be able to pay it off via only 29 diners a night. Assuming drinks, appetizers, and deserts can carry the rest of the overhead, I don't see where they can't come up with the cash for the services they were rendered.

January 21st, 2009, 06:30 PM	#51
randommichael Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,414 Likes (Received): 0	Never.

January 21st, 2009, 06:57 PM	#52
DShenise Designer, 1404designs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Monica Posts: 1,133 Likes (Received): 0	I said just the steak (and I check the current menu for a medium to low priced steak). Now if you want soup, salad, appetizer, drinks, deserts, I expect about $125-$175 per person depending on how much they drink (I'm usually good for two beers with dinner). So again the calcs work out to $380K divided by $35 per low end steak divided by 365 days in a year = 29.7 steaks sold per night to pay off that amount. If you consider they ONLY have 29.7 seats in the chairs per night, each spending my $175 per seat low ball estimate they would earn ~ $18.97M. Which means that they ought to be able to pay their design/build firm for the work they produced.

January 21st, 2009, 09:11 PM	#54
DShenise Designer, 1404designs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Monica Posts: 1,133 Likes (Received): 0	Back in my single days "sitting at the bar" was one of the best ways to class-up an evening and save a few dollars. Generally it was pretty easy to meet women at some of the nicer places in town and generally by the time conversation started going in the right direction, I would be off the hook for buying two dinners as the woman I was talking to had either finished dinner as well, was just interested in drinks or was about to eat with friends and wanted to meet up with me later. Made my days in grad school much more interesting.

January 21st, 2009, 09:27 PM	#55
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,272 Likes (Received): 8	lol... I've done something similar to that... Though in my case, it was more like, go get dinner some place else, and then go to Bern's for dessert.

March 2nd, 2009, 05:17 PM	#58
jonknee Downtown resident Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,285 Likes (Received): 0	Bern's actually just got rated the top steakhouse in America by Rachael Ray's magazine (I loathe her, but the mag has a 1.5m+ circulation). So yea, doing well. __________________ What I've been up to in the kitchen

March 2nd, 2009, 05:46 PM	#59
TampaMike Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 6,142 Likes (Received): 5	That's good. Shame the hotel didn't happy though. I don't expect them to give up either on their plans, just thought the situation was worse than expected. __________________ Corporations Are People Too - Mitt Romney For the People that dress up like Corporations.

March 2nd, 2009, 07:27 PM	#60
WeatherChannel Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Tampa Posts: 211 Likes (Received): 0	They should at least paint it nice and landscape it or FINE them! They have the money. __________________ I'm New Be Kind

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