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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:16 PM   #1101
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Actually they can make change on the height. I hope they will decide to make WTC3 taller. 3 meters will be enough to make it a supertall.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:39 PM   #1102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fettekatz View Post



I'm surprised that there's still discussion about that... shouldn't they know the height before starting the constructions?
They are only just starting the foundation


...and Tower 3 is already a supertall, taller than the ESB.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:49 PM   #1103
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From Curbed.com

Delays are nothing new for the redevelopment of the World Trade Center, but at least this one is for a good reason. The Port Authority just issued a statement saying the authority has granted developer Larry Silverstein a six-month extension to get Towers 3 and 4 done—moving the completion dates to mid-2012 for Tower 3 and spring 2012 for Tower 4—because Silverstein Properties is in negotiations with Merrill Lynch to move the firm to Tower 3. According to Silverstein, Tower 3 would need to be redesigned (though the extent of that redesign is unclear) to suit Merrill, and the foundation plans for Towers 3 and 4 would have to be amended. Hence, the extension. A deal with Merrill Lynch to fully occupy the building would be a major coup for Silverstein, given the lengthy courtship of the firm by several developers. Work on Towers 3 and 4 is already underway. A look at Sir Richard Rogers' 71-story WTC Tower 3, aka 175 Greenwich Street, is presented above.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 11:26 PM   #1104
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^Told ya'll.

Perhaps it will be 1,370' tall or taller or the same. I am sure it will be unmatched when completed. Let's not start making stupid posts with crazy ideas or stuff like they should get rid of the spires or make it a mile high.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 04:38 AM   #1105
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I'm sure they want make it taller then tower two. And I'm sure the roof height will be shorter then the Freedom tower. If tower three get to be 1,370 feet or so spire or not. Then tower two should be at less 1,450 feet. And sense we know tower one height isn't going to change, none of the other tower should be taller. But what about tower four is it a supertall yet?
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:17 PM   #1106
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news posted by NYguy on SSP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Seems like a taller version could get built afterall...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/ny...on&oref=slogin

Merrill Lynch Weighs Putting Headquarters at Ground Zero

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
May 23, 2008


Merrill Lynch is negotiating a deal to build a 70-story headquarters at ground zero, a plan that would make it the first financial firm to return to the 16-acre former World Trade Center site since the terrorist attack destroyed the complex in 2001.

A major step toward a deal was taken Thursday, when the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey voted to change the construction schedule for the towers at ground zero, enabling the developer Larry A. Silverstein to continue talks with Merrill Lynch about the building.

Officials of the Port Authority, the state and the city are optimistic about a Merrill deal, which the officials and the developer hope will spark other corporations’ interest in moving to the site. But the company is also looking for a sizable government subsidy, officials say, which could prompt some stormy bargaining sessions.

Another investment bank, Goldman Sachs, sidestepped the 16-acre trade center parcel, deciding instead to build a $2.4 billion, 43-story headquarters across West Street at Battery Park City.

Merrill is considering a move to what would be a 3 million square foot skyscraper at the northwest corner of Cortlandt and Church Streets. A tower that size would allow Merrill to consolidate 10,000 employees now at 2 and 4 World Financial Center and 222 Broadway. Merrill would prefer to own the building, rather than lease it from Mr. Silverstein, who would nevertheless build it.

Merrill Lynch’s lease at the World Financial Center, across West Street from ground zero, expires in 2013.

“We needed to move quickly to ensure that Merrill Lynch’s plans downtown can in fact be realized,” said Chris Ward, executive director of the Port Authority, which owns the land. “We’re working hand-in-glove with Larry Silverstein to see if that is possible.”

On Thursday, the Port Authority voted to extend the construction deadlines for two towers at ground zero, including Tower 3, the one under consideration by Merrill.

Mr. Silverstein’s development agreement with the Port Authority required him to complete the two office towers along Church Street by the end of 2011. The Port Authority moved the completion date for Tower 3 to June 2012, to allow him time to redesign the foundation for the proposed Merrill tower, which is larger than the building originally planned there. The deadline for Tower 4 was extended to April 2012.

“The six-month schedule adjustment approved today by the Port Authority clearly makes sense," said Janno Lieber, who oversees the trade center project for Silverstein Properties. "Merrill Lynch is downtown’s largest private-sector employer. This extension gives us the time to design and construct a modified building foundation that could accommodate Merrill’s specialized requirements."

Last fall, Merrill was in serious negotiations to move its headquarters from its longtime downtown home to the Penn Station area, where Vornado Realty Trust offered to build a skyscraper on the site of the Pennsylvania Hotel.

But the company abandoned the move after suffering billions of dollars of losses in the subprime mortgage crisis. It appeared that Merrill’s fallback plan was to remain as a tenant at the World Financial Center.

But in recent weeks, Merrill began talking in earnest with Mr. Silverstein about a new tower. There are a number of tax breaks and other incentives available at the trade center site. But Merrill wants a more generous deal, similar to the one given to Goldman Sachs — a deal that state and city officials have vowed never to repeat.

Goldman got $1.65 billion in tax-free Liberty Bonds, which will save the bank at least $9 million a year in interest, as well as $115 million in tax breaks and cash grants, leading critics to describe it as an egregious example of corporate welfare.

JPMorgan Chase got a smaller package last summer, when it signed an agreement to move its investment banking operations from Midtown to a site near ground zero, where it planned to build a 42-story, 1.3 million-square-foot tower at the corner of Greenwich and Cedar Streets. However, it recently bought Bear Stearns and Bear Stearns’s Midtown headquarters, where it now plans to put the investment bank. JPMorgan insists that it still wants the downtown development site, where the former Deutsche Bank building is being demolished.

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This would be the largest, though not the tallest WTC tower.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:28 PM   #1107
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That is great news. That is one full tower.
These are the ones you need to attract more companies to the WTC.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:29 PM   #1108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Densetsu View Post
Actually they can make change on the height. I hope they will decide to make WTC3 taller. 3 meters will be enough to make it a supertall.
That must be WTC4 you're talking about. 3m extra would be nice.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 04:39 PM   #1109
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PATH better hurry up in preparing the site for WTC2 if they're going to make the deadline for handing it over. They've got a lot excavated but there is still a substantial amount waiting to be removed.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 09:23 PM   #1110
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You mean PANYNJ. PATH is the name of the subway that runs the majority of it's stops in New Jersey (with a stop at this site, and a 3 uptown).
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Old May 24th, 2008, 06:29 AM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramvid01 View Post
You mean PANYNJ. PATH is the name of the subway that runs the majority of it's stops in New Jersey (with a stop at this site, and a 3 uptown).
Yeah it was late.


About tower 3. Assuming they don't radically alter the building how many new floors would be needed to get that extra 500k square feet?
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Old May 24th, 2008, 07:04 AM   #1112
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I have heard that they would make an overhang (no worries it wouldn't look as bad as the one in 5 WTC) and that they would add 7 additional floors.
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Old May 25th, 2008, 12:19 PM   #1113
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WTC 2 excavation work by Juan Xavier, taken yesterday:
image hosted on flickr


On its deepest point they only need to dig a few meters
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Old May 25th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #1114
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Are they building yet another secant wall over by the Tower 4 site?
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Old May 25th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #1115
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I saw the piling rig too. I don't think they will build another secant wall between the subway and the 'old' secant wall. Maybe there's still a small section left open between the subway and the begin of the slurry wall of the east bathtub. Another possibility is that the piling rig drills some foundation piles for the substructure between tower 4 and the west bathtub. I don't know, but I'll guess we know the answer in a couple of months.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 05:11 AM   #1116
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/ny...on&oref=slogin
Exposing the Wall Between the River and New York City

By DAVID W. DUNLAP
Published: May 25, 2008




David W. Dunlap/The New York Times

Parts of the river wall are visible north of Chambers Street, but the excavation at the trade center will show it at greater depth.



Port Authority of New York and New Jersey

Newly exposed granite blocks from the historic river wall that lies just west of the World Trade Center site.


To the builders of the 21st-century World Trade Center it is both an obstacle and an engineering marvel of 19th-century New York: the massive granite river wall that opened Manhattan’s edges to a world of seagoing commerce.

The river wall near the trade center was long ago cut off from the Hudson River by the landfill on which Battery Park City stands. But the wall’s granite and concrete blocks are very much in place under the western edge of West Street and have posed an engineering and archaeological challenge to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

That is because part of the river wall must be removed to allow construction of an underground passageway between the new World Trade Center and the World Financial Center in Battery Park City. But at the same time, by agreement with state preservation officials, the river wall must also be treated as the historical resource it is. The New York State Office of Historic Preservation has deemed it eligible for the National Register of Historic Places.

As a result, archaeologists will be given the chance to monitor, inspect and document the river wall as it is being dismantled. And for a week or two early next year, before it is removed, the section of wall will be visible from the Winter Garden, its rough-hewn but handsomely coursed granite blocks exposed to a depth of perhaps 15 feet below street level.

The top of the wall, which runs from the Battery to 59th Street, can currently be seen from many places along the shoreline. Just walk out on a pier and look back. But the chance to see a whole section of the wall — dry — will be exceptional.

“The beauty of it is that they’re going to be able to view an entire length,” said Clarelle DeGraffe, the project manager for the Port Authority. “About 80 feet of granite wall section will be exposed. It’s awesome.”

Awesome, but little known.

By restraining the land mass behind it, a bulkhead allows large vessels to dock at the island’s edge, rather than at the end of piers or wharves hundreds of feet off shore.

The depth and sturdiness of the shoreline is taken for granted now, but in 1873, the waterfront was so dilapidated and unnavigable as to “awake the amazement and indeed scorn of the foreigner,” The New York Times said. “What is wanted is a broad thoroughfare clear round the City, stone-faced, with all necessary piers, solid and imperishable.”

The river wall, formally known as the Hudson River bulkhead, was built under an improvement plan proposed in 1870 by Gen. George B. McClellan, the chief engineer of the city’s Department of Docks, who was far better known as a Union leader during the Civil War and Abraham Lincoln’s Democratic challenger for the presidency in 1864.

McClellan’s plan was “as ambitious, in its way, as the Brooklyn Bridge” and “the greatest public-works project of its period,” Phillip Lopate wrote in “Waterfront: A Journey Around Manhattan.”

It took six decades to complete.

According to an archaeological report prepared in 2006 by the Louis Berger Group, the bulkhead nearest the trade center was built with granite blocks atop concrete blocks atop vertical piles and lateral braces. The method suggests it was installed between 1899 and 1915.

But only physical inspection can determine the dimensions of the wall for certain, and only exploration can uncover artifacts behind the bulkhead or evidence of an earlier river wall or piers. Among materials that might be found, the Berger report said, are “historic ceramics, curved glass (bottle, table and furniture glass), pipes, small finds/architectural, bone, floral, shell and aboriginal (prehistoric).”

Ultimately, demolition of part of the river wall is needed to permit a clear path under West Street between the trade center and Battery Park City. One day, a commuter getting off the subway along William Street will be able to walk underground as far as the World Financial Center.

To prevent flooding during construction — the water table is only about 10 feet below street level — the passageway under West Street will be built in three phases, with barrier walls between each segment. It is the second barrier wall that will displace the bulkhead.

“No matter what, we’ve got a dam between us and the river,” said Raymond E. Sandiford, chief geotechnical engineer at the Port Authority.

While Mr. Sandiford’s enthusiasm is obvious for the passageway project, so is his admiration for the engineering feats of an earlier age. He noted that a preliminary excavation had disclosed the possibility of coming across timber structures from the early 19th century that were used in cribworks that functioned like a bulkhead.

“We may be uncovering even more of the historic waterfront,” Mr. Sandiford said, sounding hopeful that he would.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #1117
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The spires on WTC 3 will be taller than the entire WTC 2 with the changes brought from Merrill Lynch buying the scraper. Remember if this deal follows through Merrill Lynch is not going to lease from the Port Authority, they will buy and own WTC 3 altogether.

One problem I have with the changes is WTC 4 will look like a stump compared with the other three giants. Maki must make changes or some modifications for tower 4 or the site won't appear in alignment as it is now.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 05:40 AM   #1118
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http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252008...ing_112505.htm
GROUND ZERO IS BECKONING

May 25, 2008 -- WHAT hath Mike wrought?

More than is immediately apparent, but much less than he would have liked.

But all is not lost.

His mayoralty maintains for 585 more days, enough time (though barely) to forge a legacy worthy of the intelligence, energy and imagination of Michael R. Bloomberg.

As it stands, he'll be remembered for rezoning reform (huh?), the congestion-pricing debacle and a naive reliance on Albany to keep its word regarding mayoral control of the public schools.

And, yes, he's been a competent keeper of the city's books.

But they don't build monuments to accountants - and, besides, posterity is beckoning from Ground Zero.

Chaos has morphed into toxic stasis downtown.

No one seriously believes that the current schedule of construction deadlines is remotely achievable, and things are only getting worse.

Just last week, the Port Authority (the bi-state blob responsible for rebuilding on the World Trade Center site) pushed back projected completion dates for two of developer Larry Silverstein's Ground Zero office buildings - allegedly to give Merrill Lynch time to consider moving into one of them.

Here's hoping.

Much more likely, though, is that Merrill is on a subsidy-scrounging expedition; it lost billions last year, it needs desperately to recapitalize - and some believe it barely can afford its current Battery Park City digs.

Bottom line?

On Friday, Silverstein had six months longer - and likely longer than that - to complete his buildings, penalty-free, than he did on Wednesday.

Oh, and don't be looking for a 9/11 memorial dedication until well into the second term of Mayor Mike's successor.

Bloomberg can do something about this.

Yes, he's been deaf, dumb and blind on Ground Zero almost since he took office. It has essentially been his position that the heavy reconstruction lifting is properly to be done in Trenton and Albany - which technically is correct. But so what?

Mayors have no real power - absent their ability to inspire, cajole or bully.

Lawyers in Washington and Albany saved New York from the fiscal crises of the '70s - but Ed Koch's ebullient optimism convinced Gotham that the bitter medicine was worth swallowing. And so it was.

And Rudy Giuliani, through sheer force of will, saved the day two decades later.

Mike needs to focus on Ground Zero. He needs to poke and prod and holler and scold - to mount the world's bulliest pulpit and forge his legacy with, yes, intelligence, energy and imagination.

If not him, who?

If not now, when?

History looms, Mr. Mayor.

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Old May 27th, 2008, 10:51 PM   #1119
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http://www.nypost.com/seven/05272008...ver_112709.htm
DARK SIDE TO MERRILL'S MANEUVER


TOWER 3

Bigger footprint.


May 27, 2008 -- THERE are two ways to look at the news that the Port Authority is giving Larry Silverstein a few months longer to finish Ground Zero's Towers 3 and 4, so he can first try to woo Merrill Lynch to the site:

1) Nothing would be better for Ground Zero than a completed Tower 3 occupied by a Wall Street tenant from day one.

2) Nothing would be worse than yet another construction delay with nothing to show for it if Merrill doesn't come.

Silverstein and the PA - for once acting as partners rather than as squabbling relatives - are swinging for the fences with No. 1. But the risk is that they'll be caught looking at No. 2 in a game where they're already way behind.

The biggest question is: Can Merrill, battered by writedowns new CEO John Thain has fought to contain, afford to buy or even lease a new, 2.5 million square-foot building that will cost nearly $2 billion to construct?

Of course, a Merrill move to the WTC site would be the best news since 9/11. But if the financial giant doesn't bite, Silverstein and the PA will have only found another way to push back overdue reconstruction.

Just a few months ago, Silverstein and the PA declared that the 2012 dead- lines for the office towers were good as gold.

Anthony Shorris, former PA executive director, said, "By the end of 2012, as they say, it'll all be over but the shouting."

But now, maybe not. If you missed the news in the pre-Memorial Day exodus, the PA just gave Silverstein an additional six months to complete Tower 4, and four months more on Tower 3, before he'd have to forfeit the buildings to the PA.

The agreement gives Silverstein until mid-2013 to finish Tower 3, where Merrill Lynch is considering moving, vs. the earlier deadline of Dec. 31, 2012.

The Tower 4 extension was necessary because excavation for both foundations is being done in tandem.

The added wiggle time allows Silverstein to enlarge Tower 3's foundation so it can accommodate a redesign of the building to suit Merrill's needs.

(Richard Rogers' original design is striking, but it's basically guesswork as to what a tenant might want.)

Having redesign flexibility is necessary for Merrill to even consider moving to Tower 3 - but it does not guarantee the firm will decide to do that.

In asking the PA to extend construction deadlines, Silverstein presumably found Merrill's interest to be sincere - not a ploy to gain leverage with its current landlord, Brookfield Properties, in talks over renewing Merrill's World Financial Center lease, which is up in 2013.

Merrill, represented by Jones Lang LaSalle's sure-handed Peter "Big Rig" Riguardi - who's also an adviser to the PA - could lead Silverstein on a merry chase. The firm is already deep into talks with Brookfield to extend its WFC lease until 2018.

Besides the cost to Merrill of moving to Ground Zero, there are a lot of other "ifs" to factor in.

There's no telling how Merrill's inevitable request for subsidies beyond those already available to it if it moves to the WTC site will play at City Hall and in Albany.

Nor is it easy to believe that even slightly altering Tower 3's current design won't mess up plans for Tower 4, the new PATH terminal and the memorial - all of them linked in a Gordian knot of subterranean infrastructure.

With so many imponderables, it would not seem out of the question for Silverstein and the PA to one day declare yet another postponement beyond mid-2013. If that happens, who can guess when anything might be finished?

None of this means a Merrill Lynch deal for Tower 3 is not worth pursuing. But Silverstein and PA chiefs Anthony Coscia and Christopher Ward are going to need a lot of luck.

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Old May 27th, 2008, 11:06 PM   #1120
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2 weeks old, but worth positing imo. Look at the massive amount of rock drillers for tower 3
image hosted on flickr
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