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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:30 AM   #81
E2rdEm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Looking at the map you posted I cannot help but to feel the guys at PKP are constantly high. [...] I am personally convinced that our national railway administration in its present shape is simply unable to build and administer such a project.
That's where I have to agree with you. Those old granddads in PKP should be put as far away from this project as possible. The only thing they are able to do is delay it, screw it and say "niedałosię" [it couldn't be done] in the end. I think it should be done by Public-Private Parnership with a new company with some fancy way to ensure that profit for that company only comes when the project is delivered on time, then operations are well organized, and the line is well mantained (i.e. avoid the UK's Railtrack fate). At least for a few years, until the current crew of PKP ... well... retires.

And it also would be the way to avoid what you wrote in the rest of your post - taking the money away from maintaining and upgrading current infrastructure. I mean, the money for other routes shoud come at least at current levels, the money for HST project should be found elsewhere.

Now, a rant about some of your points:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
In short, this line is IMHO completely unnecessary in present situation, i.e. there are much better ways to spend the money.
This line is about to be put in operation around 2020. So we're not talking about present situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
* Poznań- Gorzów... great, but there is NO train connection. Well, in theory one could go to Krzyż and transfer, but locals from FGW never do that - they take the bus.
Ok, they take the bus, while there's almost straight rail route through Krzyż. You say this is normal and we shouldn't do anything about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
* Poznań - Zielona Góra - there is a connection, but it requires the train direction to be switched, it takes some 30 minutes?, so instead of sniffing speed guys at PKP, spend the money on improving the situation by e.g. building an additional pass around C... (sorry, forgot the name of the place), so that trains can skip it, or at least go through without the change of direction.
It's Czerwieńsk.
The bypass of Czerwieńsk is just about to be built with fund coming from the province. The Lubuskie Voivodeship needs it to run direct regional trains between Sulechów, Zielona Góra and Nowa Sól (they call it "Tricity in Lubsz" ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
* Warszawa - Lublin - heard that section needs urgent upgrade
No urgent upgrade needed. The line is quite well maintained at 120 km/h (100 and 80 near Warsaw). The average speed (including stops) of typical D train between Warszawa and Lublin is 72 km/h.
Anyway, the locals just started lobbying for the upgrade of this line to 160-200 km/h... Hope we succeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
* Łódź - Katowice : poor connection, there are direct trains, but one needs usually 1 or 2 transfers
That's one point where only HSL project can help. The project includes fast (although not HS) connection from Łódź to CMK to run trains Poznań - Kraków, Szczecin - Katowice etc. The trains Łódź - Kraków wouldn't be too profitable. But if they are part of the longer route - then Łódź gets a chance for quite frequent connections to Kraków and Katowice. And it's impossible to run such trains via Łódź on currently available tracks - they would be too slow.

In general, Łódź would benefit a lot on the HSL going right through it. The current railway connections around Łódź were mostly built before the city's period of fast growth. So the city lies away from main railway corridors - they have to go to Kutno to catch a train to Poznań, or to Koluszki to catch a mainline train from Warszawa to Częstochowa and Katowice. It's high time to change that. After 150 years!
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Old February 28th, 2009, 01:34 AM   #82
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Guys, here the latest rumour:

Von Berlin nach Warschau per ICE
19.02.2009

Von Berlin nach Warschau per ICE – laut der Tageszeitung Dziennik könnte das schon 2011 möglich sein. Dem Blatt zufolge soll die Deutsche Bahn dem polnischen Zugunternehmen PKP den Kauf von ICE- Zügen angeboten haben. Das Angebot wird zur Zeit analysiert. Ob das Reisen zwischen Warschau und Berlin tatsächlich noch schneller und bequemer wird, erfahren wir voraussichtlich innerhalb von einigen Wochen.

Derzeit verkehren verkehren drei Züge täglich zwischen den beiden Hauptstädten. Die Fahrt mit dem "Berlin-Warszawa-Express“ dauert ca. 6 Stunden.

Dziennik/mn/adn

http://www.polskieradio.pl/zagranica...kul102707.html

--

Google translation:

From Berlin to Warsaw by ICE
19.02.2009

From Berlin to Warsaw by ICE - according to the daily newspaper Dziennik 2011 could already be possible. The sheet indicates that the Deutsche Bahn, PKP Polish Zugunternehmen buying ICE trains have offered. The offer is currently being analyzed. Whether traveling between Warsaw and Berlin actually even faster and more convenient, we expected to learn within a few weeks.

Currently operate three trains operate daily between the two capitals. The ride with the "Berlin-Warszawa-Express" will take approximately 6 hours.

Dziennik/mn/adn Dziennik / mn / ADN
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Old February 28th, 2009, 01:53 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve87 View Post
The ride with the "Berlin-Warszawa-Express" will take approximately 6 hours.

On the one hand one can say that there is room for improvement (in the ballpark of 500 kms, so it would average below 100 kph...)

On the other hand, München is closer to Berlin and yet takes the same time......
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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve87 View Post
Guys, here the latest rumour:

Von Berlin nach Warschau per ICE
19.02.2009

Von Berlin nach Warschau per ICE – laut der Tageszeitung Dziennik könnte das schon 2011 möglich sein. Dem Blatt zufolge soll die Deutsche Bahn dem polnischen Zugunternehmen PKP den Kauf von ICE- Zügen angeboten haben. Das Angebot wird zur Zeit analysiert. Ob das Reisen zwischen Warschau und Berlin tatsächlich noch schneller und bequemer wird, erfahren wir voraussichtlich innerhalb von einigen Wochen.

Derzeit verkehren verkehren drei Züge täglich zwischen den beiden Hauptstädten. Die Fahrt mit dem "Berlin-Warszawa-Express“ dauert ca. 6 Stunden.

Dziennik/mn/adn

http://www.polskieradio.pl/zagranica...kul102707.html

--

Google translation:

From Berlin to Warsaw by ICE
19.02.2009

From Berlin to Warsaw by ICE - according to the daily newspaper Dziennik 2011 could already be possible. The sheet indicates that the Deutsche Bahn, PKP Polish Zugunternehmen buying ICE trains have offered. The offer is currently being analyzed. Whether traveling between Warsaw and Berlin actually even faster and more convenient, we expected to learn within a few weeks.

Currently operate three trains operate daily between the two capitals. The ride with the "Berlin-Warszawa-Express" will take approximately 6 hours.

Dziennik/mn/adn Dziennik / mn / ADN
Yeah, those unreliable, old turbodiesel ICEs? I've heard about it and no, thx We have electrified lines so we don't need it. It would be one of the most stupid choices of PKP to buy those trains
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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:33 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
On the one hand one can say that there is room for improvement (in the ballpark of 500 kms, so it would average below 100 kph...)

On the other hand, München is closer to Berlin and yet takes the same time......
http://www.intercity.pl/?page=szczeg..._to=15566#ceny
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Old January 10th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #86
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Will there be a Gdansk-Warsaw-Krakow line eventually? What about the Eastern Part of Poland; Bialystok, Olsztyn, etc.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 09:24 AM   #87
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I'd very much suggest a "French solution" for the Mezzogiorno: cities and regions that are persistent net recipients of subsidies from the rest of the country get starved of infrastructure so as to induce people to move to parts of the country that ARE economically viable.
I think you are not thar familiarized with Italian issues and Italian settlement and economic industrial organization patterns. Most of the economic migration that should occur already happened in the post-war years. Still, the "Mezzogiorno" is not like Limousin, for instance. It is not even an historical and economic well-definied region, but indeed a legal ficition created for purposes of resource and investment management.

In Italy, where these days there is a heat debate about what to do about tax money distribution, the only "net contributing" regions are Lombardia (Milano), Piemonte (Torino) and Lazio (Roma). Every other single regions takes more money than it receives, even the proud Veneto.

Moreover, the importance of the three or four major Italian cities (Roma, Milano, Napoli, Torino) to either economic activity or settlements is far lower than in Spain or France, for instance. So, it is quite impossible and it is not even advisable, to push a "French Solution" in Italy: many Italian small, rural and innficient communities are already depopulated enough, while major cities like the ones I mentioned and also Bologna, Bari, Palermo, Trieste, Firenze, Genova etc. already attracted many people displaced from the Alps, the overcrowded Po River plain farms and the rugged mountains of Sicilia and Calabria.

This said... let me write something about the Germans, where spatial economic and populational organization resembles more Italy than France or Spain. I don't really understand why people are complaining that Germany focus its spending in their own interests when it comes to rail services.

Surely, I'd like to have faster train services to travel there, but Germany was somehow spoiled when EU didn't help them with modernization of ex-East Germany when they reunited. Germany already had better GDP, per capita GDP, standards of living, commercial surplus etc., and England and France were not willing to foot the bill for improving the "my sudden bigger neighbor" economy as they did with smaller Spain, Portugal and to a certain degree Greece. Nonetheless, they built/improved a lot of Authobahns up to the borders with Checz and Poland.

So, I think my Polish friends are overreacting. There are reasonable routes that can link Poland to Berlin and other cities. If the Germans prefer to increase their competitiveness and access of their hinterland at expense of providign a link that will benefit much more Polish than Germany itself, then the European Union should step in to fund a "fast" Polish border-Berlin link. It is my guess (and only that, I don't have thata on the issue) that German economic benefits of improvign access to Poland is far lower than linking the country together.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:25 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylver View Post
Will there be a Gdansk-Warsaw-Krakow line eventually? What about the Eastern Part of Poland; Bialystok, Olsztyn, etc.
You know as much as we do, probably even PKP doesn't know. However on most maps they show Warszawa-Białystok 200 kph line as future development after constructing 'Y'. Gdańsk-Warszawa is being modernised now
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Old April 8th, 2010, 12:39 PM   #89
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(About Berlin-Warszawa by ICE)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvenking View Post
Yeah, those unreliable, old turbodiesel ICEs? I've heard about it and no, thx We have electrified lines so we don't need it. It would be one of the most stupid choices of PKP to buy those trains
Yes, that was exactly it. And the reason was simple: to refill in Poland. Seriously, the idea was to have that route in order to buy cheap diesel.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 02:29 PM   #90
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http://www.rynek-kolejowy.pl/foto_ne...df701d78_d.png

high speed railways in poland in 2040
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 01:22 AM   #91
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Japanese delegations are also visiting and pushing their HSR systems for the Y-Route, trying to get a foothold in Europe I guess.

Would be interesting, their trains are quite out there:





The Japanese also want to help build HSR in Poland

First, the Chinese, the Japanese now. Japan External Trade Organization JETRO, together with the Embassy of Japan, organized a seminar on business, presenting advanced technologies, products, installations and systems of high-speed rail.

The meeting is intended to foster contacts between representatives of the Japanese government and the local Japanese business-related technologies, the HSR and the people involved in the construction of high-speed rail in Poland. Presented technical solutions, which may result in the potential contribution of Japanese technology in the rapid construction of rail transport in our country.

- Japanese railway system is known throughout the world due to its safety, punctuality, speed and friendliness towards the passenger. Has always been synonymous with the latest technology and efficient functioning - said Japan's ambassador to Poland, Yuichi Kusumoto.

- By the end of 2020, almost all European capitals will be linked by high-speed rail system. We have aspirations to join the system. CMK modernize and are working on a feasibility study for the "Y". We also invest in the modernization of the northern part of the E65 line - said Deputy Minister for Infrastructure, prof. Juliusz Engelhardt.

- Investment in CMK and the lines of "Y" will bring significant shortening travel time between cities, not only that but also will connect the entire network, for example, such relationships as Rzeszów - Poznan. At the moment our efforts are focused on the preparatory work. PKP PLK signed a contract for a study with a consortium of Spanish IDOM. In managing such a large project we seek to foreign entities because we do not have the relevant experience - said Engelhardt.
(Source: lm / mg, Railway Market, 30 November 2010)

http://www.rynek-
kolejowy.pl/20066/Japonczycy_tez_chca_pomoc_w_budowie_KDP_w_Polsce.htm

Pendalino's look all but a cert now as well.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 03:07 AM   #92
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No one has posted it (only one small clause in previous post), so I post this news (now it's a bit outdated ): On 16th September was signed contract for feasibility study of high-speed rail Warsaw-Lodz-Poznan/Wroclaw between PKP PLK company (owner of railroads in Poland) and Spanish-Polish consortium leaded by IDOM company. More information (in Polish):
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...1&postcount=34
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Old December 7th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Japanese delegations are also visiting and pushing their HSR systems for the Y-Route, trying to get a foothold in Europe I guess.
Getting EU funds to buy Japanese trains? I personally don't see any problem, but I wonder what the big (and very protectionist) EU members (Germany, France etc.) would say about that. Poland is already in the spotlight for politically being 'too close' to US for EU's taste, buying Japanese trains could strain even further its relations with the big 2.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 12:36 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think you are not thar familiarized with Italian issues and Italian settlement and economic industrial organization patterns. Most of the economic migration that should occur already happened in the post-war years. Still, the "Mezzogiorno" is not like Limousin, for instance. It is not even an historical and economic well-definied region, but indeed a legal ficition created for purposes of resource and investment management.

In Italy, where these days there is a heat debate about what to do about tax money distribution, the only "net contributing" regions are Lombardia (Milano), Piemonte (Torino) and Lazio (Roma). Every other single regions takes more money than it receives, even the proud Veneto.

Moreover, the importance of the three or four major Italian cities (Roma, Milano, Napoli, Torino) to either economic activity or settlements is far lower than in Spain or France, for instance. So, it is quite impossible and it is not even advisable, to push a "French Solution" in Italy: many Italian small, rural and innficient communities are already depopulated enough, while major cities like the ones I mentioned and also Bologna, Bari, Palermo, Trieste, Firenze, Genova etc. already attracted many people displaced from the Alps, the overcrowded Po River plain farms and the rugged mountains of Sicilia and Calabria.

This said... let me write something about the Germans, where spatial economic and populational organization resembles more Italy than France or Spain. I don't really understand why people are complaining that Germany focus its spending in their own interests when it comes to rail services.

Surely, I'd like to have faster train services to travel there, but Germany was somehow spoiled when EU didn't help them with modernization of ex-East Germany when they reunited. Germany already had better GDP, per capita GDP, standards of living, commercial surplus etc., and England and France were not willing to foot the bill for improving the "my sudden bigger neighbor" economy as they did with smaller Spain, Portugal and to a certain degree Greece. Nonetheless, they built/improved a lot of Authobahns up to the borders with Checz and Poland.

So, I think my Polish friends are overreacting. There are reasonable routes that can link Poland to Berlin and other cities. If the Germans prefer to increase their competitiveness and access of their hinterland at expense of providign a link that will benefit much more Polish than Germany itself, then the European Union should step in to fund a "fast" Polish border-Berlin link. It is my guess (and only that, I don't have thata on the issue) that German economic benefits of improvign access to Poland is far lower than linking the country together.
Portugal has a densely populated corridor just 400km long and 50km wide ... the reamaining territory if any has a couple of 40.000 hab towns(a single 600km route would serve some 90% of the population, most of the HSR projects here in fact are just means to reach the border with spain).
Spain is Madrid in the center , smaller metropolis 500km away and half a dozen middle-of-nowhere cities in between large plains and empty hillsides(great terrain to built those Ave routes anyway)
Poland will have a lot of work if it even tries to build/upgrade such a large network ... they will have a lot of work to just achieve something like a 50% HSR nationwide coverage.


My sugestion ??? Poland should concentrate first in upgrading most of its current core network to 160/200 km/h intercity travell.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 05:11 PM   #95
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Sotavento, Poland should do both.
Wroclaw-Warsaw line can't be upgraded/modernised because it consists out of two local lines just conected, its very curvy and goes through some small villiges. So either way it has to be build from scratch, building line for 200km/h and later for real HSR is plain stupid.
But lines with good geometry will be modernised or are underway like warsaw-Gdansk one (tough for little more money we could have had second CMK line -CMKbis going straight up to Gdansk)
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Old December 10th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #96
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Pic of the Pendalino:

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Old January 4th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #97
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Locke, you are showing us a variety of modern, fast trains, which according to you would ride in Poland ...

It sounds like a beautiful dream!
But it is only a dream

Over a year has passed since the last entry here. Authorities decided, it was better to do a lot of repairs on the network than spent money on just one or two high-speed lines. Pendolino (without rocking) will manage the EURO 2012, or not. They will ride the normal network (perhaps restored to its state from 20-30 years ...).
Call me a pessimist. But unfortunately, it's just like we do. This is the reality. And of course the financial crisis. EU does not give us more money, because she needs to save Greece, Portugal Ireland...
I'm not complaining though. Decades of neglect reaping the harvest. Well that restores the state of the track from before 20 years, when there wern't so many local speed limits.

From Kraków to Pzemyśl (the Ukraine border) will go to the euro, even slower than usual, because the repair is not made ​​on time and will only be one lane open.

So you can freeze the subject, for the next 20 years.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #98
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Quote:
Railway Hubs in the cities of Wrocław, Poznan and Łódz (Poland)
Client: PKP PLK

Country: Poland


Start date: 2012

End date: 2014



Feasibility study for the adaptation to high speed of the railway hubs in the cities of Wrocław, Poznan and Łódz ensuring interoperability with other transport modes.

The objective of this project is the creation of multimodal transport hubs of different types of transport means with the key element being a supraregional high-speed rail.

The feasibility study has as its mission to determine the adaptation of railway hubs to the needs, scale and structure of rail transport services (in relation to the quality and quantity), in order to ensure effective integration of the various means of transport in terms of the predefined hubs.

The objective of performing Feasibility Studies - selected issues:

•Increase the availability of each agglomeration in transport, and ensure a balanced development through the improvement of public transport.
•Improve the operating conditions of the rail corridors in the international system.
•Stimulate economic growth nationally and regionally by increasing the availability of transport.
•Increase the capacity to attract investment from areas located in the vicinity of modernized railway lines.
•Lay out of the high-speed line route within the area of the hub in a collision-free manner in order to enable maximum short travel through the hub.
•Protection of the natural environment.

The main difficulties of the projects awarded are, on the one hand, the capacity limitations of the railway hubs and, to a lesser extent, to lines connecting them. On the other hand, these works are challenging as all the junctions are located in large centers of population with high-density urban development and historically shaped communication systems.
http://www.sener-civil-architecture....totalperpage=5
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Old July 11th, 2013, 05:24 AM   #99
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PKP Intercity signs Pendolino contract
31 May 2011

POLAND: PKP Intercity and Alstom Transport signed a €665m contract on May 30 for the supply and maintenance of 20 New Pendolino trainsets.




They are to be delivered from Alstom's Savigliano plant in Italy from 2014, and along with ongoing infrastructure upgrades will cut the fastest Warszawa - Gdansk journeys to 2˝ h from more than 4 h. Warszawa to Krakow and Katowice will be reduced from around 2ľ h to 'slightly more than 2 h'.

Part of Alstom's 'service proven' Pendolino family, of which more than 400 trainsets have been sold since the 1970s, the seven-car trains for PKP Intercity will be designed for a maximum speed of 250 km/h, but will not be equipped to tilt. Each train will be able to carry 402 passengers.

They will be fitted with ERTMS as well as Polish, Austrian, Czech and German signalling systems, and will be able to run under 3 kV DC, 15 kV 16·7 Hz and 25 kV 50 Hz electrification. They will be equipped for regenerative braking, and will meet the latest European standards for noise emissions.

Alstom will maintain the trains for 17 years at a 12 000 m2 depot to be built in Warszawa, which will have around 100 staff.

Half of the cost of the contract is being met from the EU's Operational Programme Infrastructure & Environment. The rest is to be covered by a government-guaranteed EIB loan. This is subject to European Commission approval of the 15-year monopoly operating contract signed by the government and PKP Intercity on February 25..
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...-contract.html
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Old July 11th, 2013, 05:27 AM   #100
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First Polish Pendolino presented to PKP Intercity
20 Jun 2013


POLAND: The first Pendolino for Poland was presented to PKP Intercity at Alstom’s Savigliano plant on June 17. The Polish and Italian deputy transport ministers attended the event.






The train, branded as EIC Premium, is made up of seven cars and is 187·4 m long. It will feature 402 seats in three classes. The interior was designed by maradDesign and Alstom.

In May 2011 Alstom was awarded a contract for 20 trainsets, the construction of a depot in the Grochów district of Warszawa and 17 years of maintenance.

The trains will be tested in Żmigród near Wrocław before entering commercial service in December 2014. They will initially run between Gdynia, Warszawa, Kraków and Katowice, with future services to Wrocław, Rzeszów and Bielsko-Biała. The maximum speed of 250 km/h means that journey times between Warszawa and Kraków would take 2 h 15 min, around an hour less than currently..
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...intercity.html
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