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Old December 18th, 2014, 04:11 PM   #141
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@Gusiluz

Producer markets train ETR610 (ED250) as Pendolino - even if it doesn't have tilting system, so this is where the name comes from.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 07:11 PM   #142
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Well, precisely the ETR 600 Pendolino circulating at 250 in the Italian Direttisima with 3 kV with the same power. Other trains at 300.

The maximum speed with ETCS 1 is 300 km/h, with ETCS 2 (indispensable GSM-R): 350.

Until now I always read 230 km/h in the CMK line in 2015.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 08:36 PM   #143
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Hy guys, congratilations for the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arct View Post
PKP AFAIK isn't going to upgrade ETCS 1 to 2 on CMK. ETCS 1 is enough to reach 250 km/h. BTW.

The biggest problem with reaching 250km/h is power supply. (we should change voltage from 3kV DC to 25 kV AC)
+1

ETCS level 1 is suficient for 250 kph if there is not too much traffic, how much trips per hour now and how much ones are expected for next periods?
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Old December 18th, 2014, 11:00 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
Well, precisely the ETR 600 Pendolino circulating at 250 in the Italian Direttisima with 3 kV with the same power.
Yes, the Dirretsima is direct comparison to CMK (Zawiercie - Grodzisk) in Poland mostly due to speed and power supply. But there are many differences between Italian catenaries and Polish ones. In short traction wires in Poland have smaller cross section, catenaries are more flexible and masts are spaced a bit further apart. But despite that tests with Pendolino train sets proved that maximum reached for that setting is 293 km/h while stable run was possible at 250 km/h. But the biggest concern was too low power output of substations due to which two coupled train sets reached only 240 km/h. Additional substations are already on order so from that point everything should be safe and sound for 250 km/h within few years.

Quote:
Other trains at 300
To My knowledge Dirretsima is still allowed for only 250 km/h for all trains. I've only read that FS is studding possibility of rising power supply to allow 300 km/h operations under 3kV DC as an option to re-electrification.

Quote:
Until now I always read 230 km/h in the CMK line in 2015.
Answer for that question is problematic because there are numerous problems and unfortunately also politics involved.

1. As I've written above in a few years when all is finished catenaries and power supply will be fit for 250 km/h.
2. ETCS level 1 is a problem due to stopping distance determined by legacy signalling so here two solutions are evaluated in which maximum speed could be raised to 230 km/h only for Pendolinos due to their shorter stopping distance. Second solution is migration to ERTMS level 2 basically allowing 250 km/h operations.
3. PKP PLK policy is a bit protective so company is more keen to lower speed of 230 km/h and finally was willing to re-electrify CMK line with AC power supply (2x 25 kV 50 Hz) which wouldn't be any time soon.
4. Alstom was even more precautious as reportedly in Pendolino specifications in 3 kV DC only 220 km/h maximum speed was specified (initially this wasn't seen as a problem because CMK re-electrification was evaluated thus trains were fitted also with AC traction equipment allowing for 250 km/h).

So there are numerous problems but it is possible that in a few years 250 km/h may be achievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battuta
how much trips per hour now and how much ones are expected for next periods
Regarding CMK it is something like 4 pairs an hour. The most challenging is fact that Katowice - Warszawa and Kraków - Warszawa trains run in a 5 minute gap between them because in Warszawa they either go alternately to Gdańsk or offer connections to Gdańsk.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 11:41 PM   #145
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Yes, true, the Direttissima only supports 250. I had no hand my notes and I thought of Wikipedia. Error.

With ERTMS can get those speeds although the distances between signals are short, as in Germany.

Thanks for the explanations.
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Old December 19th, 2014, 01:50 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post


So there are numerous problems but it is possible that in a few years 250 km/h may be achievable.


Regarding CMK it is something like 4 pairs an hour. The most challenging is fact that Katowice - Warszawa and Kraków - Warszawa trains run in a 5 minute gap between them because in Warszawa they either go alternately to Gdańsk or offer connections to Gdańsk.

Euh.. 5 minutes i think GSM-R will be necessary to enhance the speed but in waiting speed can be increased without GSM-R on some trips when traffic is low at 6 am for instance it will give the oportunity to people to reach their office in 2 hours. I think Many High speed trains are faster in many countries early in the morning for these reasons.

Last edited by Battuta; December 19th, 2014 at 01:53 PM. Reason: ortho
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Old December 24th, 2014, 03:01 PM   #147
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From Railway Gazette:

Quote:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/h...ail-study.html

Polish borders high speed rail study
23 Dec 2014



POLAND: Infrastructure manager PKP PLK has awarded Idom a 2·3m złoty contract to undertake feasibility studies for possible extensions of the proposed Warszawa – Poznań/Wrocław Y-shaped high speed rail network.

The study will investigate continuing the branches of the future high speed line to the German and Czech borders, assessing whether to would be better to modernise existing routes or build new alignments. Nine potential corridors are to be studied, with a proposed design speed of 200 to 350 km/h.

Plans to build a Y-shaped line from Warszawa through Lódz to Poznan and Wroclaw have remained postponed since December 2011, when the government halted the project. Completion of this first phase is not envisaged until 2030 at the earliest
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Old December 25th, 2014, 02:11 AM   #148
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350 km/h line Berlin-Poznan-Warsaw. Yes, please!
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Old December 25th, 2014, 02:20 AM   #149
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Berlin-Poznań-Łódź-Warsaw
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Old December 25th, 2014, 02:40 AM   #150
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Euh.. I was bad in geography




Source : http://www.reinisfischer.com/first-h...aunched-poland


Question what is colored in blue in the map above?
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Old December 25th, 2014, 03:23 AM   #151
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It's Central Rail Line (CMK). Belive or not, CMK was bulid as second in the world (and firsy in Europe)High Speed Line(!)- 5years before first LGV. Whole engineering of CMK is full of geniousness. Think, how perspectively you had to think, that 40 years later it will allow trains like Pendolino to achive world record in their class (and all of that in communist era!) And that's only one of many examples. Here you can find more anout it:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKP_rail_line_4
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Old December 25th, 2014, 04:09 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arct View Post

It's Central Rail Line (CMK). Belive or not, CMK was bulid as second in the world (and firsy in Europe)High Speed Line(!)- 5years before first LGV. Whole engineering of CMK is full of geniousness. Think, how perspectively you had to think, that 40 years later it will allow trains like Pendolino to achive world record in their class (and all of that in communist era!) And that's only one of many examples. Here you can find more anout it:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKP_rail_line_4
Oh yes finished even before HSR Roma-Firenze !!

No i did not know it before..
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Old December 25th, 2014, 07:44 PM   #153
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Taking into account the gloomy times, it was a real miracle that the CMK project in its modern shape became ever accepted. As the only priority for the communist regime was freight (to transport mostly loads of coal from Silesia region to the ports of Baltic sea), the engineers had to convince (or to cheat if you prefer) the ruling party to get these parameters approved. And indeed, for many years after its completion the line was used almost exclusively for freight.
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Old December 25th, 2014, 08:03 PM   #154
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Quote:
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Taking into account the gloomy times, it was a real miracle that the CMK project in its modern shape became ever accepted. As the only priority for the communist regime was freight (to transport mostly loads of coal from Silesia region to the ports of Baltic sea)...
The original plan was to extend CMK near to Gdansk to create a fast link to the port, as the article says. There must be stub-tracks north of the merger between CMK and the Warsaw-railway heading further north ending nowhere. Don´t know if they still exist. Together with the not finished Olympic highway near to this tracks, the area included two not finished projects of that time.

Edit: The tracks do not exist anymore, but the right-of-way is clearly visibible in Bing. Even the new A2 is prepared for crossing, west of MOP Baranów.
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Old December 25th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #155
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AFAIK The crossing is prepared for Ygrek HSL, not Amber CMK.
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Old December 25th, 2014, 09:29 PM   #156
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Quote:
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AFAIK The crossing is prepared for Ygrek HSL, not Amber CMK.
You must be right. I think CMK going further north is history.

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Old January 1st, 2015, 08:29 PM   #157
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Pendolino on the CMK

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Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:08 AM   #158
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 02:16 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwasny07 View Post
Pendolino on the CMK <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5cW4b5xSGc">YouTube Link</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J32VyO_-Ndk">YouTube Link</a>


In Xmas mode
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Old January 4th, 2015, 08:40 PM   #160
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