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Old September 4th, 2013, 03:32 AM   #101
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The new L2 will open today at around 14:00.

Hereīs an updated map made by TRAM_space:

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Old September 4th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #102
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Line 4L (Puerta del mar - Sangueta) was cancelled?
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Old September 4th, 2013, 04:21 PM   #103
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On July the 1st, shuttle line 4L (Puerta del Mar-Sangueta) will be closed.
OK, I've found it.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 11:31 AM   #104
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Could someone that speaks Spanish explain us the current situation please? I read something that inauguration was cancelled due to some demonstration, but it is not clear whether the line started to operate or did not.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 11:40 AM   #105
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Was cancelled only the opening travel with politicians. They did the same travel two years and a half ago and closed the line since yesterday.


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Old September 5th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #106
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and closed the line since yesterday
Sorry, what do you mean by that? So, the line is in operation, right?
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Old September 5th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #107
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Yes since yesterday is in operation, but before that was closed two years and a half after test the line because there's no money to keep it operative, the government tried to privatice it twice but any company were interested.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 01:46 PM   #108
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I see. Thank you very much for the clarification!
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Old September 5th, 2013, 05:28 PM   #109
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vichase made a mistake, sorry. He meant this:

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Was cancelled only the opening travel with politicians. They did the same travel two years and a half ago and closed the line sincetill yesterday.
Itīs not like no company was interested, some actually were, but with the requirements that the regional government had set, no private wanted to operate it.

So the region has kept the line halted for two years and a half.

It is believed that they wanted to privatize the line to some "friendly company" (we donīt know which one), but they failed, and finally they came to their senses and acknowledged that the operation by FGV, like the rest of the network, was the most reasonable thing, since that was better than having the line halted until some private agreed the regionīs requirements.

Hence the demonstrations, people in Alicante are extremely angry because of that, because itīs one of the provinces with the worst rail services, despite it being the fourth most populated province in Spain after Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #110
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Btw, seems like the opening of L2 has proven successful, and that it has become the busiest line in just one day of operation, and its opening has even boosted the ridership of the other lines.

Aand... on the first day, two accidents already!!
It hit a woman (injured, but no life danger), and then some passengers of another tram had to go to hospital after an accident with a car.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #111
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Quote:
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Btw, seems like the opening of L2 has proven successful, and that it has become the busiest line in just one day of operation, and its opening has even boosted the ridership of the other lines.
It would be a joke if it didn't, the line serves the main hospital and also the second most important. It also serves the main shopping center and the University.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 08:01 PM   #112
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Itīs not like no company was interested, some actually were, but with the requirements that the regional government had set, no private wanted to operate it.
Only Subus and Vossloh (together) at the first time, the second time no company were interested...
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Old September 5th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #113
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It would be a joke if it didn't, the line serves the main hospital and also the second most important. It also serves the main shopping center and the University.
Well, youīre right.
But I wasnīt expecting that since day one, and with frequencies that are not top notch, and that I suspect people will demand to increase very soon...
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Old September 6th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #114
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Are there any plans to extend the system southwards as well? The city still lasts for a while South of the central train station and there are smaller towns along the coast as well.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 10:48 PM   #115
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Yes, one line will go to the south of the city (with an underground section) and the airport, other will continue to Elche.

I don't know if my grandchildren will see it , nowadays theres no money to build them.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 03:38 AM   #116
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The new L2 transported 7,615 passengers ont its first full day of operation.
On the day of the opening (with service limited from 14:00 to 23:00) it transported 4,156 passengers.

Source: Diario Información (in Spanish)
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Old September 7th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #117
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Quote:
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The new L2 transported 7,615 passengers ont its first full day of operation.
On the day of the opening (with service limited from 14:00 to 23:00) it transported 4,156 passengers.

Source: Diario Información (in Spanish)
I can't for my life understand why trams are so underused in Spain. Even the most used systems/lines are pathetic compared to average tram lines in France/Germany/Holland/Poland or even the nordic countries.

I mean, this line goes thrugh VERY dense neighbourhoods. It should have a patronage above 20,000 daily passenger from day one. Normal numbers would be between 30 and 40,000 daily passengers if Alicante was a French city.

And all other tram lines in Bilbao, in Vitoria, in Madrid, In Barcelona and in Seville all have very poor numbers for a modern tram line. I mean, tram baix in barcelona should have triple the numbers of passengers, just look at the tram in Paris and compare.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 11:53 PM   #118
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sadly my country is full of cars
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Old September 8th, 2013, 01:55 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
I can't for my life understand why trams are so underused in Spain. Even the most used systems/lines are pathetic compared to average tram lines in France/Germany/Holland/Poland or even the nordic countries.

I mean, this line goes thrugh VERY dense neighbourhoods. It should have a patronage above 20,000 daily passenger from day one. Normal numbers would be between 30 and 40,000 daily passengers if Alicante was a French city.

And all other tram lines in Bilbao, in Vitoria, in Madrid, In Barcelona and in Seville all have very poor numbers for a modern tram line. I mean, tram baix in barcelona should have triple the numbers of passengers, just look at the tram in Paris and compare.
a) Fraud. Sad but true. I donīt see them emptier than the French trams, though. But fraud exists in France, too.

b) Little or no preference at traffic lights (Saragossa is the exception).

c) Bad frequencies: the Alicante new line starts with a top frequency of 8 minutes at peaks (17 minutes off-peak). Austerity and debt are a handicap, of course, but even in the good days that should have been better managed, and it wasnīt.

d) In all cities except Saragossa and to a lesser degree, Murcia (I donīt know about the Tenerife case), authorities have not reorganized the bus lines, or they have done it but not to the scale that should have been required.

e) Unfinished networks, yet to be developed (which is the case in Murcia, Barcelona, Vitoria, Seville... and nearly all the others).

f) The Seville tram has a very short line. The Bilbao line is not long either. And the Vitoria tram is beginning, there are more extensions to come.

g) The Saragossa tram is well used (the most used tram in Spain). As far as I know, the Tenerife tram too.

h) Trams have been out of use for many years, with the exception of two touristic and very short tram lines, one in Majorca, and another in Barcelona.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 02:34 AM   #120
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Quote:
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a) Fraud. Sad but true. I donīt see them emptier than the French trams, though.
Fraud exist also outside of Spain, however it can not explain how the spanish tram lines doesn't even reach 30% patronage of similar lines in cities in other countries.

For example, Nantes line 1 transport 30 million passengers per year while Zaragoza line 1 transport 12 million. This despite the fact that Zaragoza line 1 has far more residents living at a much higher density alongside its route, it is not even comparable.

If patronage was the same in Zaragoza as in Nantes, then I would expect 50 million passengers on Zaragoza line 1, not 12.

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b) Little or no preference at traffic lights.
This can not explain why Trambaix in Barcelona is only used by students and pensioners, I've used that line many times (both in and outside of rush hour) and I have never seen any commuters in any sgnificant numbers, only students and pensioners.

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c) Bad frequencies: the Alicante new line starts with a top frequency of 8 minutes.
This I only accept as an excuse when the frequenzy is less than 10 min.

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d) In all cities except Saragossa and to a lesser degree, Murcia (I ignore the Tenerife case), authorities have not reorganized the bus lines, or they have done it but only just.
This is a good excuse and an area of improvment, but still is not good enough of a reason.

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e) The Seville tram has a very short line. The Bilbao line is not long either. And the Vitoria tram is beginning, there are more extensions to come.
Ok, but what about Murcia, was it 7 million last year? Compare that to say Bordeux or Montpellier and you will cry when you see the difference. And I talk about individual lines, not the whole networks. Both smaller cities with 3-4 times the number of passengers on lines with less inhabitants and much lower density.

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f) the Saragossa tram is well used (the most used tram in Spain). As far as I know, the Tenerife tram too.
Only compared to other Spanish systems, as I wrote above, if Zaragoza had a patronage comparable to French or Dutch cities then I would expect for such a large and dense city with no other public transport alternatives, atleast 100.000+ passengers per day on weekdays but more like 150-200.000.

Last edited by gincan; September 8th, 2013 at 02:41 AM.
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