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Old September 8th, 2013, 02:41 AM   #121
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Another possible explanation: Spanish cities tend do be more dense than other European cities, thus needing less room, and allowing more foot trips.

How about the comparison with Italian and Portuguese trams, btw? You only named France and northern countries, which usually are less dense than Spanish cities (take Paris out of the sentence, alright)...
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Old September 8th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Another possible explanation: Spanish cities tend do be more dense than other European cities, thus needing less room, and allowing more foot trips.

How about the comparison with Italian and Portuguese trams, btw? You only named France and northern countries, which usually are less dense than Spanish cities (take Paris out of the sentence, alright)...
I hink the main problems are down to

A Fares that are to expensive

B Perception of public transport in general

C Poor integration with other modes of transport

Some years ago a young woman was interviewed on Spanish public television about how the economic crisis affected her traveling routines. The interviewer asked her if she now that her disposable income had dropped would switch from driving to using the Madrid metro, to which she replied that she would rather stop spending her money on food before she would stop driving (buying gasoline for her car).

I don't think this an isolated case, but rather a common attitude amongs the general population. I think PT should be more promoted as a eco frendly transport alternative in Spain. The attitude is almost like in the USA, unless you drive your own car you are not free and that public transport is for tourists and the poor.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 09:20 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
I hink the main problems are down to

A Fares that are to expensive
This may vary from one network to the other.
A single ticket for the Saragossa tram costs €1.35, with the integrated Card €0.75, is that expensive?
In Alicante, a 1-zone ticket costs €1.35 too.
In my town, buses are more expensive than that.

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B Perception of public transport in general
I donīt think so.

Quote:
C Poor integration with other modes of transport
Well... I think it depends of the city and the particular case, really.

Quote:
Some years ago a young woman was interviewed on Spanish public television about how the economic crisis affected her traveling routines. The interviewer asked her if she now that her disposable income had dropped would switch from driving to using the Madrid metro, to which she replied that she would rather stop spending her money on food before she would stop driving (buying gasoline for her car).

I don't think this an isolated case, but rather a common attitude amongs the general population. I think PT should be more promoted as a eco frendly transport alternative in Spain. The attitude is almost like in the USA, unless you drive your own car you are not free and that public transport is for tourists and the poor.
Arenīt you a bit too dramatic about it? Dunno, itīs not like the Alicante tram is running empty.
Itīs no secret that Spain is one of Europeīs most car-oriented countries, but I donīt think trams, buses and trains are that empty...
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Old September 8th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #124
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1,45 € in Alicante city (A), the other zones 1,35 € (B, C, D, E, F).

With the 10 travel "bonus" 0.82 € integrated with all urban busses and some metropolitan lines.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #125
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An article in English:

Quote:
Alicante expands light rail network

The light rail network in Alicante became Spain's largest on September 4 with the official opening of the city's fourth line, which links the city centre with the university and the nearby town of San Vicente del Raspeig.


Line 2 services share tracks with the three existing lines (1, 3 and 4) on the 1.6 km underground section between Luceros and Museo Arqueologico, where they diverge onto the 7.4 km, 11-station branch to San Vicente.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=526
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Old September 9th, 2013, 12:35 AM   #126
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Even in the US, there are cities where people don't look down on using mass transit and even encourage it. But I agree that the US in general looks down on mass transit for various reasons and doesn't invest much money for maintenance, expansion, improved services etc. I haven't been to Spain, but I think it's ridiculous to compare that country to the US when it comes to mass transit.

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Old September 20th, 2013, 02:26 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
I mean, this line goes thrugh VERY dense neighbourhoods. It should have a patronage above 20,000 daily passenger from day one. Normal numbers would be between 30 and 40,000 daily passengers if Alicante was a French city.
Whatever it is, itīs not doing bad, in just one week it has already become the busiest line of the Alicante network.
Numbers are 82,000 passengers per week, but thatīs just the first week of operation, I think thereīs plenty of room to grow.

Source (in Spanish): Diario ABC

Iīll take a look at it very soon.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 01:33 PM   #128
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Stats passengers in July and August, the months with more passengers: 1.385.675

July: 714.063
23.034 daily average.

Train: 264.638
Tram: 449.425

L1: 238.746
L3: 270.122
L4: 137.578
L9: 67.618

August: 671.612
21.664 daily average

Train: 250.837
Tram: 419.422

L1: 227.972
L3: 255.745
L4: 123.943
L9: 63.952


Night service (Fridays and Saturdays of both months): 54.238

http://www.elperiodic.com/palicante/...pasajeros.html
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 03:55 AM   #129
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A tram on the new L2.

L2 is starting to get very crowded at peak hours, people are starting to demand longer trams or better frequencies.

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Old October 3rd, 2013, 01:00 PM   #130
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 05:20 PM   #131
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I suspect this pics were taken before the opening of L2.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 04:58 AM   #132
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I suspect this pics were taken before the opening of L2.
I visited in June 2011.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 03:51 AM   #133
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Any news on the extension of the underground section from Luceros to the RENFE station?
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Old October 18th, 2013, 04:57 AM   #134
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No news isnīt always good news.

Btw, thatīs not the top priority anymore, since Luceros is less than 10 min on foot from the main railway station.
And itīs not the priority because works didnīt start, and because that is a very expensive investment, that the Valencia Region canīt afford right now.

The priority is to finish the unfinished, the works that had to be stopped because of the cuts.
So in this respect, itīs got to be the Serra Grossa tunnel, located between Sangueta and La Isleta stops, which will allow the doublé-tracking on that sector. Having a sector in single-track right there is rather penalizing for frequencies.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 08:05 AM   #135
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I have some questions about the line between La Marina and La Isleta. When this line was electrified, was it always intended to be replaced by a new double-track line on the other side of the highway, once the line to Mercado was open?
South of La Isleta a tunnel was constructed under the highway to bring the new line back over to join the original line. This section will be replaced by the Serra Grossa tunnel. It seems a big expence building one tunnel to be replaced by another, or was the Serra Grossa tunnel a later addition to the plan?
Lastly, the Sangueta station seems to be pretty much in the middle of nowhere (isolated), was it's main purpose to transfer passegers to the Puerta del Mar 4L shuttle?
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Old October 18th, 2013, 10:18 AM   #136
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No, when Mercado was opened that tunnel wasn't planned yet.

When you travel from Sangueta to La Isleta, the first tunnel was made to link the new line with the old line (where single track begins), when Serra Grossa tunnel be operative that tunnel will be for cars.
Arriving to La Isleta there's other tunnel next to the new one, wich was made (60s or 70s) for isolate the buildings in that zone because the noise and vibrations.

Yes, and to link the new line with La Marina, wich have maintenance workshops, but not for a long time, they want to move all the activity to El Campello garaje and maintenance workshop.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 11:22 AM   #137
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Thanks, do you think the 4L shuttle will reopen when the economy recovers?
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Old October 18th, 2013, 04:41 PM   #138
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I don't know, nowadays is not very useful, La Marina is less than 200m from Sangueta and Puerta del Mar serves mostly to the beach, the seaport, and other zones that are very close to Mercado.

When it was opened the passangers were mostly tourists and old people. I think they could open the line in summer months, its when the beach and seaport have more movement of people.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 12:50 AM   #139
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Quote:
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Thanks, do you think the 4L shuttle will reopen when the economy recovers?
That can only be envisaged as a part of a further extension into San Gabriel os some other southern quarter.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #140
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I don't think we'll ever see that happen
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