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Old November 19th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #5781
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhirgataZFs1694 View Post
Per both according to source. 33% truck traffic is quite plausible for this road.
Of course, I thought so! But why have you written:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhirgataZFs1694 View Post
That means 18000AADT.
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Old November 20th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #5782
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thanks for nice posts on tunnels on previous page.

can anyone from you guys from Bulgaria give an opinion on it, primary I'm wondering why it has to be a tunnel of this length? I drove through that area, and while it's true that terrain isn't easy, it didn't look that combined viaducts and smaller tunnels couldn't do the job to bypass Kresna gorge.

What I'm interested for is some analysis (Chriss?) on how this long tunnel could be more cost-effective than few smaller tunnels and viaducts? For a country as Bulgaria is, constructing this tunnel sounds a bit megalomaniac, unless funding is totally on the EU side?
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Old November 20th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #5783
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The Kresna Gorge is too narrow and windy for a decent motorway alignment. Any motorway there would have to run on viaducts and through short tunnels. This would have a huge impact on the gorge, although it would be very spectacular. The current plan seems to be to bore a tunnel through the western side of the gorge along the entire length from Krupnik to Kresna.

Are there any indications as to how much this tunnel would cost?
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Old November 20th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #5784
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Constructing of motorway through Kresna gorge is out of question for terrain configuration reason but also for environment issues and historical reasons. That's why I said bypass. What I'm not getting quite clear is determination to construct a single tube tunnel through bypass area western of the gorge, instead of constructing several shorter tunnels with viaducts. Some nice example of construction costs somewhere else where the case of terrain was similar would be nice, if someone can help.

For example, Dimitrovgrad (SRB) bypass has three shorter tunnels and couple of huge viaducts, but they could simply go with a single tube tunnel as well. Not sure about maths behind these decisions, that's what I'm interested for in Kresna case.
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Old November 20th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #5785
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Well, it's all about protection of the enviroment. I would prefer to bypass the gorge from east - a platеau and hills lie there, just at the foot of Pirin mountain. A system of viaducts and shorter tunnels could deal with the terrain, but the enviromental decision approves only building this long tunnel. Several protected areas are situated in the gorge or close to it.

Pity, because the long tunnel is quite expensive and along with lots 3.1 and 3.3 will take (or even exceed) all EU funds allocated for building motorways in 2014-20. Moreover, we cannot choose to build other motorway sections instead of lot 3 of A3 Struma, because the Commission had approved all lots of A3 as one integral project.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 12:48 AM   #5786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Kresna Gorge is too narrow and windy for a decent motorway alignment. Any motorway there would have to run on viaducts and through short tunnels. This would have a huge impact on the gorge, although it would be very spectacular. The current plan seems to be to bore a tunnel through the western side of the gorge along the entire length from Krupnik to Kresna.

Are there any indications as to how much this tunnel would cost?
Your knowledge always fascinates me. Where do you know this from?
Because it's true. The experts in our Road Agency said that a motorway with many tunnels connected with viaducts in between would be unsafe because of risk of ice on bridges. Although, the bigger problem they had seen was the huge impact of the construction of these viaducts on animals and plants in the gorge.
However, some of our forumers reckon that the construction of this huge tunnel would have almost equal or even bigger impact on the area.

The cost of the tunnel would be 600-1 000 mln euro.
Construction of underground tunnels with TBM(a likely tehnology due to time frame) in Bulgaria costs around 43mln euro per km.
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Constructing of motorway through Kresna gorge is out of question for terrain configuration reason but also for environment issues and historical reasons.
Historical?
Kresna gorge is unique because it's a transitional territory between mountainous, continental and mediterranean climates and biospheres. There are many protected birds, plants and animals.

The EU wants desperately this motorway because of Greece and does not want to be accussed of environmental mayhem by greenies. To make matters worse our politicians are unwilling to fight for changing the project and we are stuck with this world record breaking madness.

Last edited by PhirgataZFs1694; November 21st, 2013 at 10:32 PM.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 01:28 AM   #5787
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Then I was probably mis-informed about significance of the area in both environmental and national history way. I refered to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresna-Razlog_Uprising

anyway, thanks for the useful info. By the way, I think Trace Holding won for construction of Predejane - Caricina Dolina 1100m tunnel in Serbia for apr. 42-43 mil. Euros, what's almost exactly how you quoted it.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 07:37 AM   #5788
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First layer of asphalt on a small segment of lot 1 of A4 Maritsa motorway.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 12:18 AM   #5789
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The cost of the tunnel would be 600-1 000 mln euro.
Construction of underground tunnels with TBM(a likely tehnology due to time frame) in Bulgaria costs around 43mln euro per km.
A tunnel between valley SW of Polena and valley N of Gorna Breznitsa was not considered? That tunnel would be almost 4 km shorter (with some additional shorter tunnels more south)
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 02:36 AM   #5790
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Question, will the long Kresna tunnel be a half profile motorway 1+1 with escape tunnel or a full profile 2+2 with escape tunnel??
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 07:39 AM   #5791
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2x2, probably w/o hard shoulder. There will be cross connections b/n the tunnels for safety reasons.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 01:24 PM   #5792
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when it will be fully completed motorway E-80 Sofia - Serbian border ?
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 03:06 PM   #5793
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when it will be fully completed motorway E-80 Sofia - Serbian border ?
The tender for 31 km of Kalotina motorway was cancelled, due to lacking financing. According to the minister of transport the section will be re-tendered in 2014 and will be financed by the Connecting Europe Facility.

More in Bulgarian: http://infrastructure.bg/show.php?storyid=2179764
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 06:24 PM   #5794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gogo3o View Post
The tender for 31 km of Kalotina motorway was cancelled, due to lacking financing. According to the minister of transport the section will be re-tendered in 2014 and will be financed by the Connecting Europe Facility.

More in Bulgarian: http://infrastructure.bg/show.php?storyid=2179764

few more questions...

- deadline for Kalotina - Dragomir is ?
- Dragomir - Slivnitsa ( 14km ) deadline ?
- Slivnitsa - Sofia is 2 x 2 ?
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 07:24 PM   #5795
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There is no deadline, because there is no tender

Sofia-Slivnitsa is 2+2, without median and without hard shoulder.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:36 PM   #5796
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Thanks

...about deadlines...that means, summer 2016. status quo
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:41 PM   #5797
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A4 Marica motorway Great photos by galin_gradev...again! The beginning of the motorway around Chirpan:
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21.11
В репортажа няма да видите панорамни снимки, защото цял ден в района беше мъгливо, за сметка на това пък има повече "социален" елемент.
Специални благодарности на Полетар за напредъка, защото неговите отговорности не са никак малки.
Както ви би споменал по лявото платно в участъка от км.5+120 до км.6+140 е положен 1-ви пласт БО.
На следващите снимки наблюдавате изпълнение на 2-ри пласт битумизирана баластра:
От км.5+200:




На км.5+360:






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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:41 PM   #5798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galin_gradev View Post
Тео, да знаеш, че на поговорки от типа "Скромността краси човека" актуалността им е отминала.



На км.6+780 с изглед на юг върху минералбетон по лявото платно и първи битумен разлив:




На км.7+000 край на минералбетона по лявото платно, а дясното е без изменение:


От км.7+000 на юг до почти ССП-то на км.8+420 е положен минералбетон по дясното платно, а лявото е без изменение:


На км.7+920:
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:44 PM   #5799
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And photos of the second section of the same motorway which is under construction between Dimitrovgrad and Harmanli. Thanks to National Road Agency and rockobarocko
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 12:50 AM   #5800
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Quote:
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A tunnel between valley SW of Polena and valley N of Gorna Breznitsa was not considered? That tunnel would be almost 4 km shorter (with some additional shorter tunnels more south)
No. Maybe because of protected areas near Gorna Breznitsa?
However, as I said, there was an eastern route-combination of tunnels and viaducts near Rakitna and Stara Kresna.

Last edited by PhirgataZFs1694; November 24th, 2013 at 11:12 AM.
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