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Old October 26th, 2010, 08:31 PM   #161
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^ as I see it, this family went from economically poor to sensibility poor. I can see one rather chooses to be poor of the latter, but that doesn't necessarily make the transition an overall success story.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #162
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Better to be the latter than the former.

There's nothing new about what's happening in India - the same thing went on in USA over a century ago. But then it's easy to be a socialist country when you've got plenty of wealth lying around to distribute evenly and there's no other country whose people live better lives than yours. Much more difficult for poor countries whose middle classes look up to Europe and USA as examples of how to live their lives.

Imagine if there was a country "X" whose citizens lived for an average of 150 years, never suffered from diseases and didn't have to work a single day of their lives. Would the people of Denmark (for example) be satisfied with their lives? I don't think so.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 10:37 AM   #163
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haha how tasteless.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 06:27 PM   #164
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It's hilarious... if the guy were to spend the same amount of cash building a huge mansion on a 400 acre plantation in the countryside -- the same thing ALL people of his wealth do EVERYWERE in the world -- no one would've batted an eyelash.

The fact he chose to encourage the needed verticalization of Mumbai and follow through on his commitment to urbanization is..... somehow bad?


I thought this was skyscrapercity, not Chateaucity.
What a bunch of hypocrites.


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for all those who say i never put up any pics

cc - myself

scroll --->




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Old October 30th, 2010, 06:32 PM   #165
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BTW, a lot of people are forgetting that the building structure itself has just been completed. The currently-bare sides of the building will be covered in a 'vertical wall' of plant growth:



Should look a lot better once the vines or whatever take root
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Old October 30th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jai View Post
It's hilarious... if the guy were to spend the same amount of cash building a huge mansion on a 400 acre plantation in the countryside -- the same thing ALL people of his wealth do EVERYWERE in the world -- no one would've batted an eyelash.

The fact he chose to encourage the needed verticalization of Mumbai and follow through on his commitment to urbanization is..... somehow bad?


I thought this was skyscrapercity, not Chateaucity.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Completely agree, the absolute height of hypocrisy.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Marathaman View Post
Is it really much different than entire countries in the developed world that wall themselves off from "immigrants" and consume far, far more resources than they need? Does it matter if the poverty is a few hundred meters away or a few thousand kilometers?

At least Mumbai doesn't wall itself off from the poorest corners of India, which is why you have people from those parts coming into the city in their thousands every single day, building shanties and earning a living. Funny how such an open heart ends up giving the city a bad name.

Charity is not a magic wand to cure poverty. People need to work hard to earn a living and generate wealth. This building is a symbol of the success that a poor family from rural India can achieve within a couple of generations and the strength of that message is worth much more than anything that socialist ideologues have to say.
Brilliant ratiocination MM - Some critics consider their "holier than thou" sensibility as a gold standard or ultimate prescription for the developing world. If the "first world citizens" care so much for the poor why do they throw Mexicans out by the droves? After all their 1000+ acre Ranches, Oil wells and haciendas can support hundreds of thousands. And why on earth do they sue generic drug makers from Asia who supply life saving drugs for HIV in Africa.
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Old October 31st, 2010, 03:17 AM   #168
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One of the coolest skyscraper.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 08:03 AM   #169
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I think there are many myths about this building, but part of the blame goes to the Ambanis who have been secretive about the project probably because of security concerns and privacy.

Is the building really 173 m or is it 150 m?

Who will actually stay in this building? Just 5 people? Or hundreds more?

Will this be a residential building with facilities for private entertainment or will it have semi commercial usage and guest house facilities?

There is a lot of unknowns. Hence all kinds of speculation.

Not a green expert although now a days everybody is green (I like green shirts too). So cannot comment on sustainibility of the skyscraper based on several unknown facts. 99.9% of the journalists who are writing about the project may not know the details. A huge chunk may not know where Mumbai is on the map and Malabar Hills is as good as next to Dharavi for them (thank god for wikimapia for coming to our rescue) - no wonder many an aspiring journalist can confidently spy massive slum views as far as the eye goes from this skyscraper even without setting foot in the building.

Coming to the caste system (Is the UN an example of caste system with its five Brahmins?), and Indian culture (it's too diverse) - there is very little link to those things in this skyscraper. Indian culture has Gopurams and Minarets - but skyscrapers in their modern form are a western cultural import (and not necessarily a bad one). It's just like jeans. In India we just add a Kurta on top to make it look ethnic and not necessarily a polo. So the architects added some vastu - feng shui mumbo jumbo (sorry not wanting to insult anyone) to add the ethnic / mysterious value. Don't many of us love "gated" communities or pricey police force or "secured" high tech homes that keep out "unwanted" folks? So why this rolling of eyes about the "system".

Mr Mukesh Ambani is no angel. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he is the devil incarnate just because he built a luxury pad for himself. Why does he have to feel guilty for the poor folks? When I buy a car on a loan (because I cannot afford to buy in one shot) do I have to feel guilty about the world's hungry? Maybe it is selfishness. But it is nobody's business what car I drive (as long as I make my monthly payments) and nobody has the right to question my charity instincts.

It's not like Mr M Ambani is unfamiliar with skyscrapers. He already lives in one (surprise for those who didn't know this). He is just moving to this new one and his younger brother can keep the older one all to himself. Maybe the Ambanis are secret admirers of this website (you never know). So should we put them in the gaol for dreaming to build a skyscraper instead of us mortals who only dream of skyscrapers we can never build or own? I don't think as fans of skyscrapers (sustainabilty apart) we should be that critical.

At least for a change, Mr Ambani, unlike many other billionaires, is building a nice home for himself in India and not in some far away island or stashing it all in Swiss banks. So critics should be happy that at least some money has been invested here rather than in foreign shores.

Does this building represent a vulgar display of wealth? Just 16 hours away on a non stop flight is a city whose display of wealth is a symbol of global disparity. And why 16? Just fly for 4 hours and you will have another example. So should they start feeling guilty about global disparity and stop building skyscrapers? Should Mr Ambani start feeling guilty about Indian disparity and not buy a couple of planes? Should many of the foreign players in the cricket team owned by him stop playing as they earn thousands of times more than the average Indian? Should people stop staying in luxury hotels in India because most people cannot afford them? It's not an easy question. We should leave that to a person's conscience and not preach about it.

Does this building represent a growing disparity between rich and poor in India. That's what many "experts" have been claiming. As the only non expert in this world, I would say that is BS. Before they stashed away the cash in mattresses, in basements, within double walls and lockers or in Zurich (if you could manage to wear a suit). Now the rich are spending more openly in India. It's a good thing. They are also slowly opening up their purses for charitable work ("Indians spent about $7.5 billion on charity in 2009, according to a March report by Boston, Massachusetts-based business consulting firm Bain & Co. That compares with $300 billion contributed by the U.S. in the period".)

Will this tower make poor people jealous and revolt against this tower? Nobody revolted against the Taj Mahal (quite an expensive masoleum). Not sure if the Pyramids evoked awe or revolt. Nobody will revolt against this tower either. There will be the desi chatterati class and the media snobs (desi or videshi) and the variety of "experts" who will dissect a thousand mutinies in their articles. But then they will move on to something else. And we here will move on too - to the next skyscraper built by the next billionaire (It could be any one of us in this forum. Right?)
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 08:50 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jai View Post
It's hilarious... if the guy were to spend the same amount of cash building a huge mansion on a 400 acre plantation in the countryside -- the same thing ALL people of his wealth do EVERYWERE in the world -- no one would've batted an eyelash.

Amen.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 01:45 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncity View Post
I think there are many myths about this building, but part of the blame goes to the Ambanis who have been secretive about the project probably because of security concerns and privacy.

Is the building really 173 m or is it 150 m?

Who will actually stay in this building? Just 5 people? Or hundreds more?

Will this be a residential building with facilities for private entertainment or will it have semi commercial usage and guest house facilities?

There is a lot of unknowns. Hence all kinds of speculation.

Not a green expert although now a days everybody is green (I like green shirts too). So cannot comment on sustainibility of the skyscraper based on several unknown facts. 99.9% of the journalists who are writing about the project may not know the details. A huge chunk may not know where Mumbai is on the map and Malabar Hills is as good as next to Dharavi for them (thank god for wikimapia for coming to our rescue) - no wonder many an aspiring journalist can confidently spy massive slum views as far as the eye goes from this skyscraper even without setting foot in the building..................
Too good. What a rationale!
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:24 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Having seen babies laying next to dog turds and sheep head on the side walk not too far from this, my guess would be that there is more satisfaction in helping out some of your fellow countryman than it is to build something like that for yourself if you have that kind of money. To be honest I think this building is a disgrace to humanity. I don't know why Indian culture seems to tolerate these kind of extremes. Maybe its about time to toss that caste system out of the window.
+1, what i would like to know was how badly the construction workers were payed.
also what is this obsession with secrecy? terrible looking building btw
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:59 AM   #173
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for the record

Mukesh Ambani did not just inherit his fathers wealth. He started to run big chunks of the company from when they were Vimal textiles. Right out of UDICITY (chemical college). He along with Dhirubhai made Reliance what it is today.



and as far as the caste system goes. The Ambani's are OBCs. Or other backward class. His accent to the top represents the decline of the caste system as the time has flown by. The the global Indian elite were dominated by Marwadis and Parsi people, this OBC man's father broke every barrier and monopoly to ensure india had a free climate.

So i recommend to Jan that he read in detail on

(a) What Ambani's are

(b) what the caste system is.



The bottomline is that Ambani has earnt his money in a legit way. So he is free to do what he pleases with that.


the reason Ambani's wealth has been soaring is cause western mutual funds and foreign funds keep pouring funds into his companies and buying his stocks at inflated prices.

Not the fault of the indian government that people chose to invest in the Indian stock markets. The west cares so much about poverty, maybe they should stop subsidising their farmers and open the agricultural sector up.

Now that would really lift millions out of poverty.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:59 AM   #174
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I highly doubt that there are babies lying next to dog turds and sheep heads on Altamount Road and its vicinity. Especially the sheep heads.
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+1, what i would like to know was how badly the construction workers were payed.
also what is this obsession with secrecy? terrible looking building btw
What secrecy?

I think you're on the wrong thread.

Oh, and for those referring to the caste system, Mukesh Amabani isn't even from a high caste (if I recall correctly).
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:02 AM   #175
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Get_Smart, Thanks. Appreciate your feedback. Just visit the Detroit downtown to see some people standing on each and every traffic light holding cardboards that read "Homeless and Hungry. Please Help" (even in cold) besides some good looking buildings or how about a guy "getting excited" in public in Chicago downtown on Michigan Avenue. At least you won't be afraid to be robbed at a gunpoint at night in Mumbai nor you would come across the above scenario.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:04 AM   #176
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That's true. Mumbai is overall a pretty safe city. Even in the poorest areas I wouldn't feel uncomfortable venturing there at night.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:08 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinfishjoe View Post
I highly doubt that there are babies lying next to dog turds and sheep heads on Altamount Road and its vicinity. Especially the sheep heads.

What secrecy?

I think you're on the wrong thread.

Oh, and for those referring to the caste system, Mukesh Amabani isn't even from a high caste (if I recall correctly).
dude he is an OBC from what i just said in my post above.

Its become like a mantra of people who dont know jack in detail about indian to use some half based truths to come out with balony.

The fact of the matter is that most of the chief ministers from Narendra Modi to Mayawati to Shivraj Chauhan are from the lower castes.

the west simply overlooks those facts or just cant be bothered to research about them.



Let Ambani build what he wants. Cause the bottomline is that its the people in the west who are lining up to fund his company. Dont think he cares one bit what the "socially conscious" in the west think, cause those with the power and money in the west sure as hell dont care what he does.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #178
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Exactly.

Yes, it's true the caste system is a problem in India but people are bringing it in to pretty much every subject related to India whether it has any relevance to that topic or not.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:10 AM   #179
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Quote:
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Exactly.

Yes, it's true the caste system is a problem in India but people are bringing it in to pretty much every subject related to India whether it has any relevance to that topic or not.
Let them dude....these guys need something to fillin their useless life...We as indians know how well we are progressing ..if these guys still believe that India is land of snake charmers or caste system still prevails ..let them...I bloody care about it
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:09 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Having seen babies laying next to dog turds and sheep head on the side walk not too far from this, my guess would be that there is more satisfaction in helping out some of your fellow countryman than it is to build something like that for yourself if you have that kind of money. To be honest I think this building is a disgrace to humanity. I don't know why Indian culture seems to tolerate these kind of extremes. Maybe its about time to toss that caste system out of the window.
When I see Westerners talking about the caste system based on their "knowledge" from a few documentaries, it smacks of ignorance and arrogance. This man Mukesh Ambani, is in fact from a so-called 'backward caste'. Instead of just treating the problem like a gap between rich and poor that needs to be fixed, just like in several other developing countries, why bring in nonsense about 'caste system' and all that? And when I hear this patronizing tone of 'its time to toss it out of the window', I wonder if these people even know about India's 'affirmative action' program and the anti-discrimination laws.

And to all those who are questioning this man for building this, I'll repost something I posted a few weeks back:

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Originally Posted by Bangalore_Geek View Post
Again: this guy's industries provide employment to tens of thousands of Indians, and indirect employment to millions. Why don't the keyboard warriors who are sooo concerned about slum-dwellers, do something like this: next time, instead of buying a sedan buy a small car,and donate the difference to some good cause. Instead of buying that 32 inch LCD, make do with a TV tuner card in your PC and give the difference to some good cause. Any good cause anywhere in the world.

But no, you won't do that. You will continue to live your selfish lives and satisfy your desires to the maximum possible limit that your resources allow you to. Yet you will continue pontificating about a man who has done more for humanity that you ever will be able to.
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