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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:20 AM   #21
Umhlanga
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For sure the ridership figures are exaggerated highly. Although the proposed route map is fairly small, it doesn't look as if the route will cover most of Soweto. But even if the route winds all over Soweto (and that's a big if), the proposed ridership figures require 750,000 Sowetans to make a daily roundtrip. Estimating Soweto's population has never been easy, but let's assume for the sake of argument that 1,5 million people live there. (I think the official census gives a much lower figure.) Subtract the elderly, the young & the unemployed. Basically, these proposed ridership figures are based on an assumption that every able-bodied, employed Sowetan will ride the monorail daily. Crazy.

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Originally Posted by kulani View Post
Its possible that they may simply be an SPV (special purpose vehicle) with an ambition to enter the public transport sector and the financial muscle to invest in this project. For me the most important thing is that they have the financial muscle to do this as well as experienced partners and/or sub-contractors. Anyone with enough money can put together the required experience to make this happen. They may very well have been relying on subcontractors and consultants for the EIA, economic and technical feasibility studies. I guess time will tell. I am watching them though.
I agree that as long as they have the money to back this project, then that's a good thing. But I also agree that they must be watched, because this company have no published track record whatsoever. There are no media mentions of them available via the Internet, and their own website contains no details at all of their role in any completed project anywhere in the world. Gauteng people should watch these okes like hawks. Kulani, you should be Head Hawk.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:16 AM   #22
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guys dont buy those train tickets just yet. Remember that RENONG one of the biggest Malaysian developers and part of the Berhard group bought the Durban waterfront many year ago. 10 years later noting had happened and they were looking at the land value increase and not to fund.
its a big undertaking and 12 bil is a lot ot fund, even with a 60-40 debirt equity ratio they need 8 Bil to bring to the table ie $1bil. Not too many companys have that in petty cash.

Just be sceptical till you see the excavators
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:20 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=kulani;13205816]Guys, looks like this thing is for real and they are damn serious about it!!!

Construction to start in September for R12bn Jo'burg-Soweto monorail

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article.php?a_id=


The monorail system will be able to carry about 1,5-million passengers from Soweto to Johannesburg on a daily basis.




WHY IS THE MONORAIL IN DURBAN THEN AS IN TEH PICTURE?
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:13 AM   #24
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After reading all your comments I must say that it raise much to be desired. Remember that it was announced that Metrorail will introduce "Soweto-Train" in April 2007, but we haven't heard anything about it since then. The say that the train will be high class where by there will be cabin cre and news papaers will be provided to the passengers? Where's that, we still waiting.

I also question the issue of number of passengers, 1.5 million is rediculous. Are they taking buses and the taxi industry out of business?

We having a problem with eNatis, because some stupid company with no good track record was given a contract to develop it. The motor industry is loosing billions of rands.

Well its a matter of wait and see.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:18 AM   #25
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I dont think the Taxi's are going to like this, even if they do express their views & vote not for the monorail, it will go ahead. But then I hope they dont start stoning the thing when its complete, & the last thing we'll want is 1 of these derailing & falling onto the roads, that could be nasty!

but its a very good project & I would like to see this happen
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Old May 17th, 2007, 10:34 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA BOY View Post

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article.php?a_id=





WHY IS THE MONORAIL IN DURBAN THEN AS IN TEH PICTURE?
I also noticed that ...obviously taken from Durban's proposal a few years back. Awesome news for Joburg though!
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Old May 17th, 2007, 11:49 AM   #27
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Sigh... I live in hope. Guess we'll just have to see what happens in September.

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3835151

Malaysian loan crisis overshadows R12bn link
May 17, 2007

By Sibongile Khumalo

Johannesburg - As the agreement launching a R12 billion monorail link between Johannesburg and Soweto was being unveiled, the Kuala Lumpur system that the local link is modelled on was being repossessed by Bank Pembangunan Malaysian for defaulting on loans.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joburg;
Sigh... I live in hope. Guess we'll just have to see what happens in September.

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=

Malaysian loan crisis overshadows R12bn link
May 17, 2007

By Sibongile Khumalo

Johannesburg - As the agreement launching a R12 billion monorail link between Johannesburg and Soweto was being unveiled, the Kuala Lumpur system that the local link is modelled on was being repossessed by Bank Pembangunan Malaysian for defaulting on loans.
Eish!!!
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Old May 17th, 2007, 01:25 PM   #29
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I see he gives more information in the business report article about the composition of his consortium. Hopefully Akuna mathatha.

Quote:
He explained that the South African project would initially be funded entirely by Newcyc Vision, a consortium of Malaysian property developers, electronics companies and others.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kulani View Post
well, if you think about the fact that this is going to have 39 stations, most of which i hope will be in Soweto and the fact that people may use this to travel between different townships that makes up Soweto (there are about 79 townships in total) then there may be many trips made within Soweto on the monorail that might explain the unusually high figure of 1,5 million trips the MEC is talking about. So ultimately the trip between Soweto and Johannesburg may be simply a fraction of the total trips made on this Monorail.
ya that makes sense these guys will also cash in on 2010 as the fnb staduim is in soweto so are a couple of training grounds for 2010 e.g. orlando stadium

ps: joburg the taxis are bitching about how this is going to steal their jobs but its progress what do think the rickshaw guys said when they invented cars?
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:15 PM   #31
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ah well its something it keep us interested for a couple of weeks personal i believe the figures are poo! last see in September then
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:33 PM   #32
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lol they used a picture of downtown durban for the monorail! hehe.

Personally i think its a nutty idea to do a monorail for such a long distance. As was discuss in the Durban monorail/tram thread long ago, the cost of building monorails are by far the most expensive form of transport per metre built. As such they are mainly used as gimics for tourist related area's with stations in very close proximity and the entire system covering a small area.

To develop it over many many km's as would be the case in this instance it would more than likely dwalf the costs of the gautrain, and not even carry the same number of people. For monorail is not a high volume transport system anywhere, really.

Its a good plan to give a good transport structure to the soweto area, but i think improved rail and fast bus type infrastructure would be a far better and cost effective method.

and as giles says, look how the malaysians F-d up the durban point for many years.

Why were there no public participations if this is be signed??? A project if this magnitued would def need them too
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:33 PM   #33
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Does this mean designs have already being drawn, Check this out


An artist's impression of the monorail station at the Jabulani mall
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Old May 17th, 2007, 04:55 PM   #34
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I wouldn't worry too much about the loan debacle surrounding the Kuala Lumpur monorail. As the CE points out, this company have nothing to do with that project.

But the reason to worry about this project is because this company seem to have nothing to do with any completed monorail project - anywhere.

The CE says they've built monorails in India and Sri Lanka. Where?

Search the Internet for any pictures or references to monorails in Sri Lanka. You'll find a few references to projects proposed several years ago. But you'll find no references or pictures of a completed or under construction monorail anywhere in Sri Lanka. And Newcyc's own website gives no details about a Sri Lankan monorail. All it shows is a photo of a monorail parked at a station; the same photo used throughout the site for all of Newcyc's 'monorail achievements' Oh, and if you look closely at the sign above the station, you'll see that photo happens to be of the Las Vegas monorail! (And not even this bunch are willing to claim that they built the Las Vegas monorail.)

Same for their alleged Indian monorail. Where is it? Their website lists 3 possible spots: Pune (a city), Kerala (a state) & Tamil Nadu (another state). The fact that Newcyc can only give a state-size location is dodgy in and of itself. They can't be more specific? But let's look at the possible locations:
  • Pune once floated the idea of building a 'SkyBus', but as of the beginning of this year, the project hadn't started, and the technology doesn't even have a safety certificate from the Indian government. And the proposed SkyBus technology is very different than the technology that Newcyc claims to use. (The Indian SkyBus is suspended from an overhead rail. There is a test track in Goa (not Pune), but that's it. And there's no mention of Newcyc in any article.)
  • There's no record of a monorail operating or under construction anywhere in Kerala.
  • There's no record of a monorail operating or under construction anywhere in Tamil Nadu. There are references to a controversial 2006 plan to build a monorail in Madras. Newcyc have a page with an animated picture of a monorail rising above a street in Chennai (Madras). But that's it. Why? Because there is no monorail in Madras!

Why can't Newcyc provide any details of any completed project anywhere in the world? The most they can claim is involvement in a sports stadium that opened 13 years ago, and a highway in Sri Lanka. But they make no mention of what role they played in either project. Beyond those two projects, they can claim a letter of intent to engage in methane exploration up at Hwange, and now they can point to a letter of intent in Jo'burg.

As far as the station design goes, I got suspicious once I realised that Newcyc's monorail photo is of a project that not even they claim to have been involved in. So I did an image search for 'monorail station'. Sure enough, the 4th image found is of the Bukit Bintang station in Kuala Lumpur. Look at the double-level balconies on either side in each picture. They're identical.


The 'Jabulani Mall Station' photo probably isn't based on the Bukit Bintang station, but I'll bet R500 that the Jablulani photo is based on a photo from somewehre along the Kuala Lumpur monorail line, but with a new name added in via Photoshop. But the Jabulani Mall photo is hosted on a Jo'burg website, so we can't blame Newcyc for it.

But set aside the station photos. Look at track record. Look for visible proof of Newcyc's capabilities. This company seem very dodgy. They're especially dodgy given the sorry history that SA BOY points out: look what Malaysian investors 'did' to the Durban Point.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:34 PM   #35
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Interesting.. Well i doubt the Gauteng province would sign a deal with a company that doesnt really exist or is making fraudulent claims.. I'm sure they've done their homework
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Old May 17th, 2007, 10:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Why were there no public participations if this is be signed??? A project if this magnitued would def need them too
Yup.. i think the taxis are gonna have a fit. They are the ones who I think would require the most consultation, since Soweto-Joburg is very much their busiest corridor.

Anyway.. seeing all these renders make me excited ass.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 08:35 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umhlanga View Post
.


The 'Jabulani Mall Station' photo probably isn't based on the Bukit Bintang station, but I'll bet R500 that the Jablulani photo is based on a photo from somewehre along the Kuala Lumpur monorail .

Yep you right, that is right near Bhukit Bintang plaza, out side Sung Wei shopping center, I scored with a hot aussie chick there on news years eve at the street party ........ so I should know
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Old May 18th, 2007, 11:03 AM   #38
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haha!!! seems they taking pictures from everywhere
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Old May 18th, 2007, 04:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durbsboi;
Yep you right, that is right near Bhukit Bintang plaza, out side Sung Wei shopping center, I scored with a hot aussie chick there on news years eve at the street party ........ so I should know
I will be awaiting the Jabulani Mall station's completion in Soweto and maybe i too could score a hot Soweto chic like Durbsboi, lol.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Durbsboi View Post
Yep you right, that is right near Bhukit Bintang plaza, out side Sung Wei shopping center, I scored with a hot aussie chick there on news years eve at the street party ........ so I should know
That is my FAVOURITE part of KL...
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