NZ | Roads + Infrastructure

[KaneD]

Kaas you have way too much time on your hands. That new ferry terminal design is awesome and worthy of a post to transit and toll/ontrack.

Only one slight criticism of it is that roundabout thats under the ferry exit ramp - The traffic goes around it counter-clockwise.

Not sure how this would work here since half the drivers can't drive around the regular roundabouts properly, let alone a reversed one. Sorry Kaas, not really a criticism of you, but more of the average driver here who got their drivers licenses from a packet of Weet-Bix.

On the point of ferry crossings - why is it that in NZ if you want to get a ferry crossing, you must turn up an hour before departure (and usually have a ticket in advance) whereas in most european ferry services, you just rock on up to the boat with 5 minutes notice, grab a ticket and get on and go.

What's the go? Why is it so slow here?

[KIWIKAAS]

Originally Posted by KaneD

Kaas you have way too much time on your hands. That new ferry terminal design is awesome and worthy of a post to transit and toll/ontrack.

Only one slight criticism of it is that roundabout thats under the ferry exit ramp - The traffic goes around it counter-clockwise.

Not sure how this would work here since half the drivers can't drive around the regular roundabouts properly, let alone a reversed one. Sorry Kaas, not really a criticism of you, but more of the average driver here who got their drivers licenses from a packet of Weet-Bix.

On the point of ferry crossings - why is it that in NZ if you want to get a ferry crossing, you must turn up an hour before departure (and usually have a ticket in advance) whereas in most european ferry services, you just rock on up to the boat with 5 minutes notice, grab a ticket and get on and go.

What's the go? Why is it so slow here?

I like to doodle about with mspaint now and then
Good call on the roundabout. My 17 years driving on the right is beginning to show. I'll do a correction on that.
I made the ramp(s) to and off the ferry 2 lanes (like is the case in Europe) for fast loading and off loading with the exit ramp running straight to connect with the motorway. No shunting on and off the ferry as is now the case.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jarbury

I had a talk about it with other people in my office a year or so ago. We figured the alignment would probably have to be quite far west of the current SH1 route to miss all the mountainous terrain around there. That would mean it would bypass Warkworth (probably a good thing), and might mean a whole new alignment of the Dome Valley Road would be necessary (once again, probably a good thing considering how dangerous that road is).

unfortunately though that mountainous terrain seems to continue all the way west to the Kaipara, any route through there just seems destined at one point to encounter escarpment after escarpment at some point. Though I guess if you went north west directly from Puhoi there may be a route that stays more or less level (by following one of the many creek valleys) to Woodcocks (though just south of Woodcocks is an escarpment which would require a viaduct to overcome) to meet with the North Auckland railway and follow the route of the railway to state highway one near wellsford (though north of Kaipara Flats it gets rugged again after being somewhat level between Woodcocks and Kaipara flats). Warkworth and the Dome Valley road would be almost completely bypassed.

I'm guessing that the current alignment of state highway 1 was chosen because it was the easiest route to deal with (well without bypassing Warkworth that is) I think there is only one major escarpment along that particular route, the one just after Mahurangi West rd. I think this would be the main challenge of a route that stays close to the original alignment (though this could be overcome by a viaduct), though the narrowness of many of the valleys (and the fact that there are several properties along them) would also be a challenge.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS

I like to doodle about with mspaint now and then
Good call on the roundabout. My 17 years driving on the right is beginning to show. I'll do a correction on that.
I made the ramp(s) to and off the ferry 2 lanes (like is the case in Europe) for fast loading and off loading with the exit ramp running straight to connect with the motorway. No shunting on and off the ferry as is now the case.

What would be interesting is if someone actually did a feasibility study of building a Cook Strait Bridge (or Tunnel, or combination).

I think the Muldoon Govt looked at it as an add-on the the think big projects but decided (rather wisely) to drop the idea when at the time as engineers suggested that it couldn't really be done.

Apparently bridging was too difficult because of the pier depths and strong currents (and winds), tunnelling is too difficult due to depth and a suspended/rest on the ocean floor tunnel is probably also too hard due to current and possibly risky since we are in an earthquake zone. (that tunnel would fill with water mighty quick if it ruptured - Major loss of life and chaos... has a certain ring to it doesn't it?

But of course we have moved along 25 years from that, and we have seen many amazing projects spring up abroad so I wonder if they reviewed such ideas, would it now be possible and just how much would it cost?

I'd like to see a four lane bridge + rail line. (The Rail is a MUST) OK, it would have to be tolled at a significant price, but in this day and age where we pay $300+ to take a car on a 3 hour trip to wellington and back does seem a little steep. Surely, a bridge with a 30 minute crossing and even say costing $100 per car (and no big wait at the ferry terminal) would boost economic ties between the North and South Islands. I can see massive boosts to tourism as for both domestic and international. A lot of people in the NI have never been to the SI and vice versa, likewise with foreigners.

Just a thought.

[KingKong1]

WTF is up with LTNZ and Transit, just get the fuck on with it and stop with this secondary investigation bullshit

Anger over Waikato Expressway downgrade

By BELINDA FEEK - Waikato Times | Tuesday, 04 March 2008

Land Transport New Zealand's proposal to downgrade two sections of the Waikato Expressway was thrown back in its face after a meeting with district officials in Hamilton yesterday.

The regional land transport committee was unimpressed with LTNZ's decision to withdraw funding for the $500 million Hamilton bypass through which SH1 traffic would be diverted along the eastern side of the city.

The committee was equally annoyed with a suggestion to downgrade the Huntly bypass from four lanes to two lanes and instead include more passing lanes.

The Hamilton bypass runs from Lake Rd, Horsham Downs, in the north, to south of Tamahere at Discombe Rd. The Huntly section runs from south of Ohinewai to Gordonton Rd.

The $1.2 billion Waikato Expressway is made up of eight bypasses and is designed to move heavy traffic off roads with poor safety records, and to reduce travelling times between Auckland and Hamilton.

In a written decision, LTNZ said it would defer funding of the Huntly bypass until lower cost options were found and it withdrew its funding for the $500 million Hamilton bypass because it was too expensive.

Hamilton city councillor Dave Macpherson said city officials were "appalled" at LTNZ's decision, saying the organisation was completely out of touch with the city's transport needs.

"They've taken no account of all the work that has been done in this year's regional land transport strategy.

"Not only that, the hundreds of thousands of money ratepayers have spent in preparing this strategy."

Mr Macpherson said he couldn't understand why more paperwork had to be done when Hamilton and Huntly were ready for the design phase, and the Te Rapa bypass was ready to be built. "People expect surety and now it's all been thrown back up in the air again."

Waikato district councillor Allan Sanson said previous assurances from LTNZ clearly meant nothing.

"This region has taken ownership (of the issue) but the Government hasn't taken any ownership."

Hauraki Mayor John Tregidga said it was imperative the expressway went ahead to reduce the amount of heavy traffic off SH2 and 27.

"It really concerns me the number of accidents we've been having on that stretch and it's been going on a long time."

Mr Tregidga's concerns were backed by the release of the 2007 regional council road toll figures for which Waikato now holds the title for the highest toll.

Ninety people died on the district's roads, which also include fatals from Taupo.

Even Transit NZ officials struggled to back LTNZ's decision, with representative Barry Dowsett saying its investigations had shown the expressway needed all of its sections to be totally beneficial.

LTNZ representative Myles Andrews said he appreciated the region had been waiting for this project "for quite some time" but it had been hard for LTNZ to complete the project without a "wider strategic view".

"There will be the need for some secondary investigation but by and large it can continue as planned."

The committee agreed to write to Transport Minister Annette King about its concerns over the risk of any delays to the expressway due to LTNZ's resolutions.

National's Hamilton East MP David Bennett said LTNZ's decisions were a huge "slap in the face" for the district.

"People of the Waikato are demonstratively upset and very concerned by the Government's lack of commitment to this region in respect of this issue...this is a strategic road that needs to be built."



http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikatotimes/4425104a6579.html

[KIWIKAAS]

Amazing.
Amazingly stupid

[KaneD]

Come on LTNZ, Transit, Councils, Govt etc

JUST BUILD THE FUCKING THING!

[KaneD]

Just like we've always done huh?

Have a study to decide what to do, then a few years later, we revise the strategy because of changing circumstances, then decide on a cheap option, but which there is still no funding so we wait a few more years then have another study and a few public discussions to find what people want, only to find that they want one of two options, both are too expensive, so they go for a cheaper option which requires land acquisitions, which take time to process, but since they are too tight to get on with it, by the time they do the land is too expensive and construction is too because of inflation and the project gets canned so in another few year we will... have another study to find a suitable alternate option.

I reckon our authorities must almost waste as much time having studies than they do actually building results.

Here in Chch it is quite remarkable how only in the last year or so, the councils did a study to map out future land transport needs in the south of Chch. One of the requirements was for an extension to the southern motorway from Hallswell Junction Road, to the back of Templeton.

Gosh, I wonder how much money they spent analysing traffic models to come up with that!. If one looks back at the 1960's Master Transport Plan, you'll see that our councillors had the right idea all along since that plan too has a motorway to the back of templeton, in virtually the same alignment.

[KIWIKAAS]

Yes, it's funny how they need to hire 101 consultants these days to do the work of a draftsman and an engineer 40 years ago.
Long live outsourcing.
I don't understand why they weren't securing the route back in the 1960s/70s already. Crazy that such a basic connection is still incomplete in 2008

[minimum chips]

Exactly exactly exactly. I dont use the Auckland Hamilton road but I think its strange that a city of 1.5million and a major provincial centre of 150k that are a stones throw away from each other arent joined my a motorway.

The following is a true story- I actually have a vivid memory of reading the Herald back in 1989 as a 7 year old and seeing an article saying that the two cities will be linked a motorway by 1997. Back then I thought 'great, but that is so far away.' 18 years after reading that article it STILL hasnt happened.

A plague on your houses Transit.

So does anybody actually believe a cross Cook Strait bridge would be built? How deep is that channel anyway? It would have to be a major engineering feat- the type that would have its own show on Discovery Channel.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by minimum chips

The following is a true story- I actually have a vivid memory of reading the Herald back in 1989 as a 7 year old and seeing an article saying that the two cities will be linked a motorway by 1997. Back then I thought 'great, but that is so far away.' 18 years after reading that article it STILL hasnt happened.

So does anybody actually believe a cross Cook Strait bridge would be built? How deep is that channel anyway? It would have to be a major engineering feat- the type that would have its own show on Discovery Channel.

Ha ha - Why does that not surprise me?

In 1962, The Chch Master Transport plan had the northern motorway going through the suburb of St Albans. The part of the suburb on the alignment looked al run down since obviously, no-one would want to spend money doing up houses wtc that would be demolished.

After many reviews and strategies and studies later.... in 1993, Transit drops the designation and the land is sold. Now, it's plastered with town houses.

Now, since access to Chch from the north is just crap these days, then I am waiting for yet another study which will recommend reinstating the designation for the motorway. But of course, now that its all built on, it will never be cost effective to construct with all the land acquisitions etc.

I'm interested to see LTNZ find a 'cheaper option' to quote their words in the newspaper article. On the basis that construction costs for roading seem to be going up at about 10% per year - I'm willing to put money on it that 'ultimately' the solution they pick, will be a more expensive one, if only for all the delays and procrastination along the way.

Transit and other parties just don't get it do they?

[Kiwi_Rich]

Has this slipped in under the radar?

Or have not been keeping tabs on these forums enough?

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com...upload_id=2033

[Dion]

hang on, aren't the pedestrian bridges over the Roskill extension cable stayed, so the ormiston Rd bridge wouldn't exactly be the first in NZ as the article says? lol

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by Dion

hang on, aren't the pedestrian bridges over the Roskill extension cable stayed, so the ormiston Rd bridge wouldn't exactly be the first in NZ as the article says? lol

Not sure but although they don't specifically say it, their statement would suggest they were really meaning 'first cable stayed road/vehicle bridge'

Cool - I like these bridges so it's good to see one in NZ. Unfortunately I live in the south island so won't see it often. Maybe we could have a cable stayed Lyttelton Harbour Bridge one day.

[jarbury]

Transit New Zealand

Hamilton Regional Office

Media Release

13 March 2008
Public Information Day for Cambridge Bypass


The people of Cambridge will have an opportunity to find out more about the proposed design for the State Highway 1 Cambridge Bypass later this month.

Transit New Zealand is holding a public information day on Wednesday the 26th of March at the Cambridge Town Hall, from 2 to 7pm. The information day will enable anyone with an interest in the project to find out more about the proposed bypass design and provide the design team with their feedback.

The design of the Cambridge Bypass began in April last year and preliminary geo-technical and land surveys are now almost complete. Transit has also determined approximately how much wider the current route designation needs to be to meet current highway safety design and environmental standards, and to cater for future four-laning.

Transit regional manager, Kaye Clark says Transit hopes to lodge Notice of Requirement (NoR) documentation for the extended land designation required for the bypass by early next year, with Waipa District and Waikato District Councils.

Mrs Clark says, “Public input is a very important part of this project. Anyone who is interested in this project will find the information day useful, and their feedback on the proposed design will be welcomed.”

Representatives from Transit and their engineering, property and resource management consultants will be available at the information day to discuss the design.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by jarbury

Transit New Zealand

Hamilton Regional Office

Media Release

13 March 2008
Public Information Day for Cambridge Bypass


The people of Cambridge will have an opportunity to find out more about the proposed design for the State Highway 1 Cambridge Bypass later this month.

Transit New Zealand is holding a public information day on Wednesday the 26th of March at the Cambridge Town Hall, from 2 to 7pm. The information day will enable anyone with an interest in the project to find out more about the proposed bypass design and provide the design team with their feedback.

The design of the Cambridge Bypass began in April last year and preliminary geo-technical and land surveys are now almost complete. Transit has also determined approximately how much wider the current route designation needs to be to meet current highway safety design and environmental standards, and to cater for future four-laning.

Transit regional manager, Kaye Clark says Transit hopes to lodge Notice of Requirement (NoR) documentation for the extended land designation required for the bypass by early next year, with Waipa District and Waikato District Councils.

Mrs Clark says, “Public input is a very important part of this project. Anyone who is interested in this project will find the information day useful, and their feedback on the proposed design will be welcomed.”

Representatives from Transit and their engineering, property and resource management consultants will be available at the information day to discuss the design.

Not to harp on [again] about how dumb transit and LTNZ are but:

A couple of weeks ago they were told that part of the Waikato Expressway was to be downgraded or if not, scrapped, due to a lack of funds..

So now they are to spend more money doing another study (any surprises here?) for a road that I can't see as being any more beneficial than the one they have just downgraded.

What's the go with that?

[jarbury]

Notice of Requirement is basically like a resource consent application, and gives Transit the right to acquire any necessary property, so it's a little more than just another report.

[KingKong1]

I can't believe the amount of bullshit we have to go through now in NZ to build a fuckn road! its only a road! they are everywhere! what does it matter if we build another one! just get out the fuckn diggers and mow down the countryside because at the end of the day and once all this consultation, numerous reports and investigations are done with its going to be built anyway!

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by KingKong1

I can't believe the amount of bullshit we have to go through now in NZ to build a fuckn road! its only a road! they are everywhere! what does it matter if we build another one! just get out the fuckn diggers and mow down the countryside because at the end of the day and once all this consultation, numerous reports and investigations are done with its going to be built anyway!

I like your way of thinking KingKong1. They should just get out there and do it.

Does anyone know what sort of red tape authorities have to go through in other developed countries to build a road etc? Sometimes I get the feeling that we have far more bureaucracy here than elsewhere.

[1ajs]

laughs gee sounds like winnipeg study the hell outa it to make it go away