NZ | Roads + Infrastructure

[KIWIKAAS]

I don't think NZ has more red tape now than many western countries.
I think the biggest difference is that while most western countries were developing their highway networks at a furious pace in the 1950's-60's-70's and early 80's, NZ pretty much stopped in the mid 70's only to pick up the programme 25 years later. In the meantime the population and traffioc levels had increased enormously along with land aquisition and construction costs. Legeslation had also become far more complexed. All in all NZ is running hard to stand still.
The 4-lane Auckland-Hamilton route should have been completed 25 years ago already. Now basic city to city connections are being delayed because expensive urban routes need to be completed way later and at far greater cost.
In a nut shell, NZ is struggling now because of a quater of a century of transport being put on the backburner by consectutive govts. As a teenager in the 1980's I could clearly see the impending problems then but the government and electorate were focussed on the economic survival of NZ at the time. Developement made way for cut-backs in spending.
Just a wee note. In 1985 the harbour tunnel project in Auckland was costed at $400 million. A 6 lane bridge from Stanley Pt to Mecanics Bay at $1 billion in 1988.

[Svartmetall]

Adjusting those amounts to inflation and current economic climate and they'll sound more rational. It's like the arguement that is often used about petrol prices. In Britain they did an analysis which involved adjusting petrol prices to inflation and up until last year petrol prices had remained much the same across 40 years!!!

You're also forgetting that urban highway structures in Auckland and Wellington are generally well developed anyway! We don't have the population density to require HUGE urban motorway systems. I agree that the Waikato Expressway should be build and the political hand-wringing in regards to this project is rediculous but to say that urban roading structure in Auckland and Wellington is under developed is wrong. What is underdeveloped is public transport infrastructure.

[KIWIKAAS]

Agreed. NZ has pretty well developed urban networks.
Unlike many countries NZ did the urban motorways first.
The development gap of 25 years largely effected the motorway/expresway projects between Auckland and Hamilton and Wellington and Levin.
In the 1980's many motorists argued that due to the lack of funds a motorway connection between Auckland and Hamilton was'nt fesible but a simple 4-laning was. I tend to agree that as an interim measure the govt could have quite cheaply simply added 3.5m on either side of the existing highway (such as SH3 from Hamilton Airport to Te Awamutu) for much of the distance with an eye to future upgrading to expressway standard.

[sensible]

since when were Auckland and Wellington the 'whole of nz'

virtually zero of the planned urban motorways in Christchurch were actually built and that city is now paying for it with incredibly slow average commute times (public transport was run down and had little development during the 1960's, 70's and 80's to allow for the planned motorways that were never actually built!!!).

Actually i think that Christchurch is the perfect example of how screwed up this country can get eg "lets abandon public transport initiatives and build motorways but not actually build them and then sell off all the land 30 years later".

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by sensible

Actually i think that Christchurch is the perfect example of how screwed up this country can get eg "lets abandon public transport initiatives and build motorways but not actually build them and then sell off all the land 30 years later".

You're spot on sensible...

I did quick plot on Google Earth and came up with some interesting facts. My plotting is based on memory from what I remember of the 1962 Master Plan for Christchurch. This plan included the following Motorways which the plan suggests should be completed for a greater christchurch population of 500,000:

1) Northern Motorway - 33km (Waltham to Saltwater Creek) - 6 lane Waltham to Ohoka Road, 4 lane to Saltwater Creek.

2) Southern Motorway - 17km (Waltham to S of Templeton) - 6 lane to Curletts Road, 4 lane to S of Templeton

3) Lyttelton Spur - 2.5km (Waltham to Opawa) - 4 lane

4) Tunnel Road - 6km (Woolston to Lyttelton ) - 4 lane Woolston to Tunnel N portal, 2 lane in tunnel

5) Fendalton-Avonside - 4km (Fendalton to Avonside) - 4 lane

6) Johns Road to Northern Link - 3km (1km west of Belfast to 500m E of Northwood) - 4 lane

7) Spur from Belfast to Northern - 1km (Top end Belfast to Chaneys interchange)

That is a total of 24km of 6 lane motorway and 40.5km of 4 lane motorway and 2km of 2 lane motorway (tunnel)

46 YEARS on from those plans - we so far have:

1) Northern Mwy - 7.5km of 4 lane (inc spur to Belfast) and 3km of 2 lane.

2) Southern Mwy - 2.5km of 2 lane

3) Tunnel Rd - 6 km of 2 lane (part is 3 lane if inc passing lane)

4) Lyttelton Spur - 1km of 2 lane to expressway std

Now the ONLY parts of the 1962 plan that have actually been built to the degree stated in the orgiginal plan is the 2km of the Lyttelton Tunnel and the first 1km of the Northern Mwy from Belfast which was orignally going to just be a 1km spur/on-off ramps joining to the main motorway where Chaneys On-Ramp is now. ALL of the other plans have either been built to a reduced specification, planned but not built, or completely scrapped.

Now I'm not exactly saying that we should have built all those motorways - Some such as the Fendalton-Avonside link I think would have been a bit inappropriate (although the first 500m of it was actually built on the alignment that is now part of Harper Ave).

By and large though, many of the more recent proposals such as the woodend bypass, southern mwy to templeton are much the same as the 1962 plan, but with minor alterations and in most cases, some downsizing.

[sensible]

interestingly i have hand drawn maps of the 1962 masterplan (i drew them myself!!!!!!!!!!). This is because i wasnt allowed to photocopy the original i was looking at (it was quite worn). ill try get them up some time, looked absolutely crazy. I certainly agree its ridiculous how little of what was planned was actually built, when you list it like you have it looks like a joke.

So next time you Aucklanders or Wellingtonians are stuck on your motorways or cursing your late train spare a thought for us on the plains. Were stuck on some pokey two lane road with 178 sets of traffic lights between us and work! Even if we are in a bus!

[KIWIKAAS]

Indeed. Christchurch had a severe bout of Adelaide (and to some extent Sydney)sickness ie: cancelling everything and then selling off all the corridors. You really have to wonder what they were thinking. Typical political buck passing.
An interesting note is that of the 3 main cities, Christchurch would have been the easiest and cheapest of the 3 to build a top-class road and pt network. With nearly 4 decades of urban expansion and the sale of crucial corridors this is now quite a different story.

[KIWIKAAS]

Plans for a arterial road/ expressway through Hagley Park from the 60's, 70's and 1980

[KaneD]

Yes, the council actually started building the section between Fendalton Rd and Salisbury St. They built it much as per the 1967/69 revision of the plan which had the road running along the alignment of the current Hagley Ave, then veering off where the bend in the middle of harper Ave is. The council ditched the Grade Separation of the Fendalton/Deans/Harper intersection however.

If you drive along Harper Ave, you can see that the first bit is built to a more motorway like standard where by the carriageway is a 4 lanes plus a hard shoulder that is a full lane width. At the curve, the road narrows to a 4 lane but no shoulder. By the time the council got to the curve, and before they actually started building the road across the park to Salisbury, the mounting public opposition got too much for the council so they abandoned it.

The thing that really annoys me about all this is that in general, many of the oh-so-important reports and studies that we are doing now are proving that much of the original 1962 plan is still going to be needed anyway. The council and governments should have just got on with the job rather than procrastinating so that they can do another report in 10 years time.

On a similar point, I was looking at transits website last week and was reading about the proposed Cambridge Bypass. The actual designation of the corridor was in place in the early 1970's and was for a full 4 lane motorway style route. Later, the government downgraded it to a two lane route and thus sold off the surplus land. Now, it is interesting to hear that Transit propose to build it initially as a two lane route, with [re]designation for a future 4 lane route. So now the government has to go and buy all that property... again. Go figure!

Its no wonder that we are now struggling to build the required infrastructure now that land prices have increased along with construction costs, court costs, RMA costs and the like.

Hopefully, we will make it rich from the oil fields in the GSB - Then those royalty payments can contribute to building a decent road and rail system.

[NZer]

Have I missed something, it sounds like you guys are saying parts of the Waikato Expressway are being downgraded and that it might not even be four lanes for the entire length?

[minimum chips]

Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS

I had heard that this was once being condsidered. It looks so gruesome in the picture.

This is a road that even I would have objected to.

[deepred]

Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS

I don't think NZ has more red tape now than many western countries.
I think the biggest difference is that while most western countries were developing their highway networks at a furious pace in the 1950's-60's-70's and early 80's, NZ pretty much stopped in the mid 70's only to pick up the programme 25 years later. In the meantime the population and traffioc levels had increased enormously along with land aquisition and construction costs. Legeslation had also become far more complexed. All in all NZ is running hard to stand still.
The 4-lane Auckland-Hamilton route should have been completed 25 years ago already. Now basic city to city connections are being delayed because expensive urban routes need to be completed way later and at far greater cost.
In a nut shell, NZ is struggling now because of a quater of a century of transport being put on the backburner by consectutive govts. As a teenager in the 1980's I could clearly see the impending problems then but the government and electorate were focussed on the economic survival of NZ at the time. Developement made way for cut-backs in spending.
Just a wee note. In 1985 the harbour tunnel project in Auckland was costed at $400 million. A 6 lane bridge from Stanley Pt to Mecanics Bay at $1 billion in 1988.

During that period, the Public Finance Act was passed by Roger Douglas, and not much later Ruth Richardson passed the Fiscal Responsibility Act, under the pretext of preventing another Think Big from bringing the IMF to our doorstep.

In Welly, duplication of the Mt Vic & Terrace Tunnels is back on the table. The pillars for the still-unfinished 2nd Terrace Tunnel can still be seen from the Cable Car.

[KIWIKAAS]

Originally Posted by minimum chips

I had heard that this was once being condsidered. It looks so gruesome in the picture.

This is a road that even I would have objected to.

Yes indeed. Me too

[KIWIKAAS]

Originally Posted by KaneD

Yes, the council actually started building the section between Fendalton Rd and Salisbury St. They built it much as per the 1967/69 revision of the plan which had the road running along the alignment of the current Hagley Ave, then veering off where the bend in the middle of harper Ave is. The council ditched the Grade Separation of the Fendalton/Deans/Harper intersection however.

If you drive along Harper Ave, you can see that the first bit is built to a more motorway like standard where by the carriageway is a 4 lanes plus a hard shoulder that is a full lane width. At the curve, the road narrows to a 4 lane but no shoulder. By the time the council got to the curve, and before they actually started building the road across the park to Salisbury, the mounting public opposition got too much for the council so they abandoned it.
.

Yes. I know the stretch. It always looks a bit curious with it's motorway style shoulders.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by NZer

Have I missed something, it sounds like you guys are saying parts of the Waikato Expressway are being downgraded and that it might not even be four lanes for the entire length?

Yep - thats right. The current proposal is for the Cambridge Bypass section to be built to 2 lane, with land designated (again) for future widening to 4 lane.

A couple of weeks ago, LTNZ stated that the Hamilton and Huntly bypasses would be reduced to two lanes as well, though they made no mention of whether they would still have land designated for future widening to 4 lanes - One would assume so but with our authorities, you can never quite tell what they'll do.

I suppose it depends on whether Transit currently owns the land required for a 4 lane road or not. To quote LTNZ that they are are downgrading it "because they want a cheaper solution as they don't feel that the 500m needed for the Hamilton bypass is justified"

So, OK, maybe a 2 lane option will cost only $300m - That is all well and good since they will save $200m... But in 10 years time, predictable growth in traffic will prove the authorities wrong and they will need to widen it to 4 lanes anyway. Adding the extra 2 lanes will cost say another $700m which will of course take the total price for the full 4 lane route to $1000m ($1b)

So I can't see how LTNZ can back their statement that they want a cheaper solution when clearly, it WILL cost them MORE in the long run.

This is exactly the mentality of authorities of the late 1970s thru early 1990s when most improvements to transport infrastructure was either deferred, half assed, or scrapped, only to come back to haunt us now. In 10 or so years time, we'll be playing the same tune to the planners of the Waikato Expressway.

[KaneD]

Actually, one area that didn't get as starved of roading development to the same degree is Dunedin.

I believe originally, Dunedin was to have a 4 lane southern motorway from the Andersons Bar Road intersection to East Taieri. The Northern Motorway was for 4 lanes from North Dunedin (Pine Hill) to Waitati.

Today, The northern motorway has been generally built to its full length, albeit to only 2 lanes, though they've had a number of curve easements, passing lanes etc added to refine the route over more recent years.

The southern motorway is a 2 lane section for the first couple of km, then it passes through Caversham valley as 4 lane urban arterial. At the top of Lookout Point, the motorway begins again as a full 4 lanes all the way to Mosgiel where it narrows to 2 lane. The extension from Mosgiel to East Taieri has been scrapped, although in some locations, the current 2 lane SH1 carriageway was upgraded and looks like one side of a motorway carriageway where there is a very wide shoulder on one side of the road.

Only recently, was the East Taieri Bypass section officially dropped completely. There are still plans to upgrade the first section of the DSM to 4 lanes, and link the first section to the main part, thus bypassing Caversham Valley urban route.

I don't think there are any plans to upgrade the Northern Motorway from Dunedin to Waitati - The more recent traffic count only shows average daily traffic volumes to be around 7000 vpd so the current road should be adequate for the forseeable future.

I think there was also a small very short motorway style route to better link the city centre with Port Chalmers. It wasn't to be a full motorway all the way out, but mostly was to be a large flyover I think from downtown and running over the railway yards and inner port areas before linking up to the existing road to port chalmers. I think it was dropped completely and instead, the current flyover across the railway was built which I think is an interesting structure.

Now this is all in spite of Dunedins population remaining relatively static since the 1970's - yet they have by and large got most of the motorways that was planned for them. Chch, Akl and Welly have all grown much faster, yet in Chch's case, we haven't got bugger all.

[KIWIKAAS]

I wasn't aware that the East Taieri Bypass had been completely scrapped. That's a shame.
The Caversham Bypass was supposed to be 4-lanes but it was downgraded to 2-lanes at the last moment by the Lange govt. The duplication is planned to take place sometime.
The reservation for the continued motorway running from Caversham up to Lookout Pt still seems to be intact next to Main South Rd.
The Northern Motorway was only ever a motorway by name. It is basically just a normal 2-lane highway and lost it's official motorway status (finally) about 15 years ago.

[UglyBob]

Originally Posted by KaneD

Actually, one area that didn't get as starved of roading development to the same degree is Dunedin.

Now this is all in spite of Dunedins population remaining relatively static since the 1970's - yet they have by and large got most of the motorways that was planned for them. Chch, Akl and Welly have all grown much faster, yet in Chch's case, we haven't got bugger all.

Yes that's true to some extent but also a bit misleading. The scale of motorway development in Dunedin was and still is minimal compared to that required for Akld, Wgtn, Chch along with areas like the Waikato and Tauranga.

The northern motorway hardly warrants its designation and once construction commenced it had to go the full route or it would have been literally a road to nowhere.

The southern motorway has been built in fits and starts since the mid-1960s. The Burnside-Abbotsford section was completed around 1972 (my family home was right next door and I recall as a child walking its rather short length on its opening day). The flyover at Andersons Bay Rd was built in the early 1980s and the Fairfield-Mosgiel stretch in the early 2000s. So far it is over 40 years for an incomplete 12 km stretch of motorway and the current plans to widen the Caversham Valley bypass to four lanes will still not complete the motorway as it won't be 100km all the way to Lookout Point. I believe the original proposal was for a four lane tunnel through Lookout Point into the city.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by UglyBob

Yes that's true to some extent but also a bit misleading. The scale of motorway development in Dunedin was and still is minimal compared to that required for Akld, Wgtn, Chch along with areas like the Waikato and Tauranga.

The northern motorway hardly warrants its designation and once construction commenced it had to go the full route or it would have been literally a road to nowhere.

The southern motorway has been built in fits and starts since the mid-1960s. The Burnside-Abbotsford section was completed around 1972 (my family home was right next door and I recall as a child walking its rather short length on its opening day). The flyover at Andersons Bay Rd was built in the early 1980s and the Fairfield-Mosgiel stretch in the early 2000s. So far it is over 40 years for an incomplete 12 km stretch of motorway and the current plans to widen the Caversham Valley bypass to four lanes will still not complete the motorway as it won't be 100km all the way to Lookout Point. I believe the original proposal was for a four lane tunnel through Lookout Point into the city.

Quite right - but like the Chch plans, they were designed for an eventual greater Chch population of about 500,000 which we are about 70,000 short of. Dunedins master plan would have too been intended for an eventual population of a figure I don't know - presumably somewhere in the vicinity of around 200,000-250,000 perhaps - Something Dunedin is unlikely to get to for many more years yet - if ever.

The point I am making is that of the original motorways planned for the four main centres that were all done in and around the early 1960's, it would be fair to say that Dunedin certainly got a decent share of motorway development. Sure, they are not complete, and some have only recently had major upgrades such as the Fairfield-Mosgiel section.

But when you consider that the last motorway development christchurch had was the 2.5km, 2 lane Southern Motorway which was completed about 1981. It was built around the same time as the 2 lane Andersons Bay-Caversham section. But as you point out as per the Dunedin Northern Motorway - Its construction hardly warrants being called a motorway.

Since then, Dunedin has had two motorway upgrades - The Lookout Point to Burnside which was completed in the early 1990's and the Fairfield Bypass completed early 2000's - both are four laned sections. Christchurch's last four lane motorway section was a 2 km section of the northern motorway between Ohoka and Lineside Road Interchanges - finished somewhere in the late 1960's!

As for Auckland and Wellington - Auckland obviously has had a lot more and it needs it given it's rapid population growth.

Wellington has had a small extension to the the Porirua Motorway by removing traffic lights at Porirua, and some slight rearrangement of lanes etc on the thorndon viaduct, and a small extension along Hutt Road before Upper Hutt turnoff (which isn't a motorway technically, but as a general appearance of one).

[Moveax]

Originally Posted by KaneD

some slight rearrangement of lanes etc on the thorndon viaduct

What kind of changes would that be? It was built as 3 lanes each way and always has been.