NZ | Roads + Infrastructure

[Svartmetall]

We know that National are very, VERY keen on roads based upon good old Mr. Williamson, General Motors wet dream incarnate.

[jarbury]

Does anyone here realistically see the Waterview Connection being built without a $5 toll? I certainly don't.

You drive it 10 times a week, there's your $50.

[kegan]

$5+ is pretty realistic - with $2, I don't imagine there would be much left over after paying for collection, enforcement, etc. Apparently to cover the full cost of Tranmission Gully a toll of $10 per trip is required.

Nats on toll roads: the plot thickens - was Williamson really over enthusiastic?

in a bizarre twist, Progressive leader Jim Anderton raised doubts about Mr Williamson's sincerity, after exposing embedded electronic formatting in the Williamson statement to uncover an earlier draft in which it appeared his comments about "over-enthusiasm" were added later.

[Source: The DomPost Nats in damage mode over tolls]

It was rather silly to release a statement containing the draft version - plain text is the way to go for press releases - another Nat stuff up. And to think this bunch has a fair chance of running the country.

[KaneD]

a few years ago when fuel taxes increased throughout the country I recall numerous people bitching and moaning that "why should we pay for Aucklands roads?"

Now of course that National have basically blurted out their plan to make it more of a user pays system, intentionally or otherwise, it is interesting that we hear the backlash from the public again.

I say bring it on. I would like to see more toll roads because with the current economic climate from the fossil fuel reliance perspective, maybe if people have to start paying the real cost of their travel, it might make them think twice about buying the gas guzzling SUV or that nice pompous mantion on that lifestyle block out in the sticks etc.

Maybe this will only help encourage more denser living spaces which of course makes constructing and running a commuter rail system far more economic

As for pricing of the waterview connection, I will put my money that it will be $7 per private car. We only need to look at Sydney's motorway developments to figure out that it is going to cost more than Nationals $2

[jarbury]

Yeah if $2 half funds a $365 million road (Alpurt B2) then I don't see how the same amount can fully fund a $1.89 billion road.

Do the maths.

[Richard7666]

Something I've always wondered after seeing the motorway in Napier-Hastings (it's apparently called that, even though it's all in Napier) is what constitutes a motorway? I mean, that thing is only one lane each way...what gets it the special title of 'motorway' as opposed to any other semi-urban piece of state-highway? I had a quick look and there are roads that seem just like that (albeit not as long, but many have more lanes) in New Plymouth, Palmerston North, Invercargill, Tauranga...probably every small city in the country, but there seems to be something special about this Hawke's Bay one =/

[KIWIKAAS]

It's called the Hawke's Bay Expressway hense not a motorway.
The rules governing motorway designation were changed in the 1990s so that no only a true motorway can be called as such -divided,min 2 lanes per direction (with exception of the Terrace Tunnel), no peds/ cyclists, grade seperated junctions.
Examples of formerly motorway designated roads that are no longer so designated:
1. Dunedin's Northern Motorway
2. SH3 New Plymouth (a short stretch of 1km just before entering the urban area from the north)
3. Christchurch's Southern Motorway (will become a motorway in a few years)
4. Pakuranga Hwy (Waipuna Bridge), Auckland

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS

It's called the Hawke's Bay Expressway hense not a motorway.
The rules governing motorway designation were changed in the 1990s so that no only a true motorway can be called as such -divided,min 2 lanes per direction (with exception of the Terrace Tunnel), no peds/ cyclists, grade seperated junctions.
Examples of formerly motorway designated roads that are no longer so designated:
1. Dunedin's Northern Motorway
2. SH3 New Plymouth (a short stretch of 1km just before entering the urban area from the north)
3. Christchurch's Southern Motorway (will become a motorway in a few years)
4. Pakuranga Hwy (Waipuna Bridge), Auckland

The designation of the term "Motorway" still actually stands on those above roads, but only really as a legal designation rather than as a physical one - In a round-about way, it is a bit like a paper road - That is, the "Route" is still designated a motorway - or paper-motorway if you like, but the physical road may not be built as such.

These roads used to have the green "Motorway Begins" and "Motorway Ends" signs, but were removed to try and avoid confusion with the public since most people (NZ and abroad) typically expect a motorway to be of a higher grade than the road actually is. Interestingly, The Chch Northern Motorway has a 3km 2-lane section of motorway just before Woodend. This is sign-posted accordingly.

But they are still technically motorways - Well, at least this is true of the Dunedin, Christchurch and probably part of the Napier-Hastings route.

The reason that the "motorway" designation still exists is so that they can continue to enforce the "No Pedestrians, No Horses, No Bicycles" rule.

In Tauranga, they are not motorways, even though they seem to be built of a higher standard than many motorway sections - They are Expressways. This is because these roads permit cyclists and pedestrians.

In Hawkes Bay, I'm not sure but from memory, the "original section" still has a "Motorway Designation", but the rest was built as an Expressway as it permits cyclists etc. I think the original middle bit still has the "No Cyclists etc" restriction which technically makes that bit a motorway. In name however, to keep it consistent, It is officially known as the Napier-Hastings Expressway

In NZ, the grades of roads are:

1) Controlled Access Road - (Motorways) which have no side access, grade separted junctions, no pedestrians, no horses, no bicycles. Typically they have two or more lanes each way. (Examples: Auckland Motorways, Wellington Motorway, Chch Northern Motorway)

2) Limited Access Road - Expressways which have "restricted amounts" of side access but do permit pedestrians and cyclists. These roads usually have grade separation of major intersections, or high capacity at-grade intersections such as large roundabouts and multi-lane traffic signals. Roads often have more than one lane each way (Tauranga Expressways, Nelson Stoke Bypass, Most of Napier-Hastings Expressway)

3) Limited Access Road - A regular part of State Highway where the addition of extra side access points (property access) is generally not permitted as doing so poses long term route performance problems. A significant percentage of NZ's state highways fall into this category but usually they are busier roads near cities. Most new "Highway Realignments" around towns are usually designated as such.

4) Regular State Highway - Anything else that is a state highway that doesn't fit the above categories.

[KIWIKAAS]

That's interesting. I thought the designations had been changed since they removed the signs.
Well atleast they did remove the signs. It was a little rediculous

[Tasman]

Yeah the Napier-Hastings Motorway is a funny one. Most locals wouldn't know the difference. I think its officially called the Napier-Hastings Expressway but locals always call it the 'motorway'. It was built so Hastings residents could have a direct route to the Airport, as one of the conditions of building it north of Napier. Otherwise Hastings people would have to go via Clive or Taradale.

It is built to be eventually widened to a duel carrigeway in the future, when traffic justifies duplication. It really should be done now as too many useless people don't drive the speed limit but prefer to sit at 70km for the 20km journey and there's not much opportunity to overtake, well at least not during work hours.

The expressway was first built in 1961 and has taken a bloody long time to finish. In fact in probably won't finish for years, with the southern extension and the Havelock arterial being stalled. There is provisions for new over passes at Kennedy and Meanee Roads, with proposals for flyovers at the northern end near the airport. I think they've gone for the big roundabouts for any future intersections, as they're much cheaper and pretty efficient provided useless drivers stay in their lane.

Originally Posted by Richard7666

(it's apparently called that, even though it's all in Napier)

Oh yeah it not entirely in Napier at all. In fact the far majority lies in Hastings District. It goes right through the plains and finishes at York Rd in Flaxmere on Hastings' southern side.

[kegan]

The bit that was designated as a motorway was from Taradale Road to Pakowhai Road only - not quite all in Napier, but nearly so. It is still labeled as Napier - Hastings Motorway on some maps (eg Google Maps). AFAIK the rest of the expressway has not been considered as a motorway at all.

Personally, I'd like to see the name changed to Hawkes Bay Expressway throughout and only changed back to motorway when it is motorway standard.

Also, I've cycled the bit between Kennedy Rd and Meeanee Rd when I lived in Napier - there were no signs banning cycling and AFAIK are none now.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS

That's interesting. I thought the designations had been changed since they removed the signs.
Well atleast they did remove the signs. It was a little rediculous

I think the removal of the signs was mostly done to avoid confusion - Most people in the world term motorway as a high speed, multi lane, divided highway.

As more and more tourists opt for self drive travel, it would be conceivable that a tourist might travel in the right hand lane thinking it was the same direction of travel as the left lane... because "I'm on a motorway"

So maybe it was purely for clarity reasons that the signs were taken down.

I think the designation of 'motorway' might have been uplifted on some parts of 'two lane' motorway where it is envisaged that a true motorway would never be required nor justified. Possibly the Dunedin Northern Motorway could be one such example as could the original section of the Napier-Hasting Expressway.

Certainly the easiest way to tell is to see if pedestrians and cyclists are prohibited from the main traffic carriageway... If they are, then the legal motorway designation still stands. I know this is true for the Chch Northern and Southern Motorways, and the Tunnel Road Motorway. I think it is also true for the two lane section of the Dunedin Southern Motorway.

[Richard7666]

Yeah, the Dunedin Motorway (I still don't know how anyone every considered that road going out of town to the north on SH1 a motorway...it has a passing lane somewhere and that's about it) is definately well segregated in that regard, and resembles a 'proper' motorway.

[KIWIKAAS]

Actually there are 2 at grade intesections on that road as I recall and 4 overbridges.

[KaneD]

Correct, Is there two at-grade intersections? Or one?

I know one is at the top of a saddle, don't know about the other

[KIWIKAAS]

There is another one down at the flat about 2km from Waitati

[KaneD]

Correct again... I do remember now.

[Richard7666]

I shall take notice of this on my way up to Iron Maiden...I do recall overbridges now that you mention it, but they looked to me like cycleways/walkways =/

[KIWIKAAS]

2 are road bridges and the other 2 are driveways/access roads to farms

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS

2 are road bridges and the other 2 are driveways/access roads to farms

I think they are all single lane bridges from memory? Maybe one of them is two lanes.