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Old December 15th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #181
GreenAlbanian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewrob View Post
@Sign buffs. I'd be happy to have kick ass highways all over the country with signs written in only Chinese than rigidy roads with signs the size of billboards and with so much information that one needs a manual to interpret them. It would be very nice if you all focus the energy on a more productive discussion than on the same old boring recursive balkan...........

Actually it would be great if the mod cleans the thread a bit...

I would be happy that u and any other country have great roads...however, even these roads would need signs, and not in Chinese but in local language/languages!

I would expect u as an open-minded, forward looking Balkano to say, YES my Albanian speaking countrymen should have signs in their own languages too and not English and French while Albanian is missing...however it seems that generating support and respect for "other" languages and cultures in the Balkans for the time being is equal to the one of China!

Don't u think so?!

Cheers!
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Old December 15th, 2008, 06:44 PM   #182
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@dewrob
Thank you for this Information.
@Chriszwolle
I agree with you. In this forum we should discuss only for the highways and about Roads of the respective countries.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 07:56 PM   #183
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@ Green Albanian

First of all let me clear something up - I personally believe that Albanian should be used in Macedonia wherever there is a significant presence of ethnic Albanians, and that is implemented 90%+ of the time.
I don't know the details of the legislature for the signs on national roads, but I don't hear anybody in Macedonia complaining, not even the albanian politicians, and that suggests that the legislature and the extent of the usage of Albanian is agreed on (except in these kind of forums where trolls get their "patriotic" reflex by this stuff and produce 2-3 pages of drama in no time)

The French is retarded though, there is no question about it. I would rather like to see Albanian than French on those signs.


Quote:
there are Macedonian road signs in one or two villages around Prespa and Oher lakes
Excuse me? Do you mind presenting some proof about this? The Macedonians in Albania are so discriminated that they mostly dont get even the most basic stuff from the govermnent, let alone signs in Macedonian language. And they are not "one or two villages" of Macedonians in Albania, like it or not there are much more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenAlbanian View Post
The only way to beat the nationalistic idea is to respect everyones rights on culture and language, music, food, sex whatever...
The multilanguage contries should see its languages as its cultural fortune not a disadvantage or a threat!!!
Agreed. But... same goes both ways, without relativizations. You honestly want the best for Albanians in Macedonia? Then better start respecting the Macedonians in Albania instead of dismissing the size of the minority. For starters Albania should count them properly in a proper census for gods sake! There are more Macedonians from Albania studying in Macedonian universities than total Macedonians in Albania that country actually admits exist.
There are much less Macedonians in Albania than the other way around, but still much more than Albania is ready to admit. And they should get much more rights from their country before anyone from Albania starts voicing his concern about the situation in Macedonia where Albanians already have very extensive rights. They should clean up their own house first.


If any Albanian is honestly concerned about the rights of the Albanians in Macedonia, he should be actively supporting the rights of the Macedonians in Albania. Otherwise the "concern" is nothing more than blind nationalistic bullshit.

Last edited by Realek; December 15th, 2008 at 08:10 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 08:24 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenAlbanian View Post
I would be happy that u and any other country have great roads...however, even these roads would need signs, and not in Chinese but in local language/languages!

I would expect u as an open-minded, forward looking Balkano to say, YES my Albanian speaking countrymen should have signs in their own languages too and not English and French while Albanian is missing...however it seems that generating support and respect for "other" languages and cultures in the Balkans for the time being is equal to the one of China!

Don't u think so?!

Cheers!
One of the reasons why this is my first post on SSC after a really long time is because I found myself spending 90% of my time here talking about political, cultural, social, nationalistic, demographics etc. issues but not about infrastructure, urbanism and architecture. Having this discussion reaffirms my belief that SSC has lost its focus, at least when it comes to our part of the world.

Putting bilingual signs will not upgrade the quality of life for the Albanians just as it won't deteriorate the quality of life for the Macedonians. But good infrastructure would improve the lives of all regardless of the national denominator.

However, generating support to the common well being in the Balkans for the time being is equal to the one in Darfur.

I do expect you as an open minded, forward looking Balkano should be able to recognize the problem I'm referring to. All problems should be addressed, but in a balance manner. When I see 40% of the discussion revolving around linguistics in a thread about highways than something has to be wrong.

Now... the usage of other languages besides Macedonian on the highways is regulated by law and is a non issue in Macedonia for both Macedonians and Albanians. The pace of the implementation of the law was not perfect but nevertheless the implementation itself is pretty much complete. Overall a much more efficient process than for example implementing the law for not smoking in restaurants and bars which kills many poor Macedonian and Albanian second hand smokers each year which is yet again postponed.

I personally like and respect the rule of law and I think it should be a given that I support the laws including the one for bilingual signs (meaning MK/AL in the context of our discussion). I don't think that it is necessary for me to have a signature that says "I support bilingual signs" under each of my posts in order for you not to have doubts about my 'open mindness' don't you agree?
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Old December 15th, 2008, 08:32 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realek View Post
@ Green Albanian

First of all let me clear something up - I personally believe that Albanian should be used in Macedonia wherever there is a significant presence of ethnic Albanians, and that is implemented 90%+ of the time.
I don't know the details of the legislature for the signs on national roads, but I don't hear anybody in Macedonia complaining, not even the albanian politicians, and that suggests that the legislature and the extent of the usage of Albanian is agreed on (except in these kind of forums where trolls get their "patriotic" reflex by this stuff and produce 2-3 pages of drama in no time)

The French is retarded though, there is no question about it. I would rather like to see Albanian than French on those signs.



Excuse me? Do you mind presenting some proof about this? The Macedonians in Albania are so discriminated that they mostly dont get even the most basic stuff from the govermnent, let alone signs in Macedonian language. And they are not "one or two villages" of Macedonians in Albania, like it or not there are much more.



Agreed. But... same goes both ways, without relativizations. You honestly want the best for Albanians in Macedonia? Then better start respecting the Macedonians in Albania instead of dismissing the size of the minority. For starters Albania should count them properly in a proper census for gods sake! There are more Macedonians from Albania studying in Macedonian universities than total Macedonians in Albania that country actually admits exist.
There are much less Macedonians in Albania than the other way around, but still much more than Albania is ready to admit. And they should get much more rights from their country before anyone from Albania starts voicing his concern about the situation in Macedonia where Albanians already have very extensive rights. They should clean up their own house first.


If any Albanian is honestly concerned about the rights of the Albanians in Macedonia, he should be actively supporting the rights of the Macedonians in Albania. Otherwise the "concern" is nothing more than blind nationalistic bullshit.

That is great view, which is how I would like to see everyone in the Balkans and further look at these issues!

I do not know the details of the legislature neither, I just know that there should be road signs in Albanian all the way from Kumanova to Struga or Ohrid, and that its implementation is being postponed for god knows what reasons!

Considering Macedonian road signs, I can not find any photos, and I am not talking bullshit neither, I saw this on an "Macedonian Diaspora" type of program on Macedonian TV (u must know better which program would that be) and there was Macedonian PM meeting Albanian PM in some village, they were talking how great the relations between Albania and Macedonia are and street/road signs they showed in one of the frames were in two languages and the program wasn't so critical about the position of Macedonians there as u say, totally opposite! I do not know if that was for the sake of some "political correctness" or whatever, but that is what I saw!

I definitely agree that there should be a proper population census! I am not even sure when the last one held in Albania was?!
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Old December 15th, 2008, 08:38 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewrob View Post
One of the reasons why this is my first post on SSC after a really long time is because I found myself spending 90% of my time here talking about political, cultural, social, nationalistic, demographics etc. issues but not about infrastructure, urbanism and architecture. Having this discussion reaffirms my belief that SSC has lost its focus, at least when it comes to our part of the world.

Putting bilingual signs will not upgrade the quality of life for the Albanians just as it won't deteriorate the quality of life for the Macedonians. But good infrastructure would improve the lives of all regardless of the national denominator.

However, generating support to the common well being in the Balkans for the time being is equal to the one in Darfur.

I do expect you as an open minded, forward looking Balkano should be able to recognize the problem I'm referring to. All problems should be addressed, but in a balance manner. When I see 40% of the discussion revolving around linguistics in a thread about highways than something has to be wrong.

Now... the usage of other languages besides Macedonian on the highways is regulated by law and is a non issue in Macedonia for both Macedonians and Albanians. The pace of the implementation of the law was not perfect but nevertheless the implementation itself is pretty much complete. Overall a much more efficient process than for example implementing the law for not smoking in restaurants and bars which kills many poor Macedonian and Albanian second hand smokers each year which is yet again postponed.

I personally like and respect the rule of law and I think it should be a given that I support the laws including the one for bilingual signs (meaning MK/AL in the context of our discussion). I don't think that it is necessary for me to have a signature that says "I support bilingual signs" under each of my posts in order for you not to have doubts about my 'open mindness' don't you agree?

Point made!
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Old December 15th, 2008, 08:51 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenAlbanian View Post
Considering Macedonian road signs, I can not find any photos, and I am not talking bullshit neither, I saw this on an "Macedonian Diaspora" type of program on Macedonian TV (u must know better which program would that be) and there was Macedonian PM meeting Albanian PM in some village, they were talking how great the relations between Albania and Macedonia are and street/road signs they showed in one of the frames
That's good news then.

I generally agree with dewrob about the priorities - the bilingual signs are secondary to the quality of the infrastructure. But in the current situation where we must build confidence and mutual respect I think they have a bigger role to play.

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Old December 15th, 2008, 09:34 PM   #188
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Quote:
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I definitely agree that there should be a proper population census! I am not even sure when the last one held in Albania was?!
In 2001, but the question about nationality was simply not included.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 09:47 PM   #189
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Quote:
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In 2001, but the question about nationality was simply not included.
Really?! I was just looking at the instat.al on the statistics and it shows only how many male/female there are and numbers of household and found that strange!

I bet there was no question on the religion neither since there was no data on it on that page!

Do you know what did EU have to say on this?
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Old December 15th, 2008, 09:56 PM   #190
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What M-number does the bypass of Skopje get? M4?
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Old December 15th, 2008, 10:00 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewrob View Post
Actually it would be great if the mod cleans the thread a bit...
Agree.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 10:02 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What M-number does the bypass of Skopje get? M4?
Yes M4 atm

But I hear talk about re-numbering the whole network in Macedonia
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:41 PM   #193
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Can somebody post me a picture from Speed Limits in Macedonia? Thanks
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Old January 31st, 2009, 01:27 PM   #194
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why the old motorways has yellow lines and the new white?
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Old January 31st, 2009, 01:40 PM   #195
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Old Yugoslav markings?
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Old March 16th, 2009, 10:42 AM   #196
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Hello! Which part of Macedonian highways is finished and which part is being planned or constructed ATM?

I made map from information i got from the web, mostly http://motorways-exitlists.com , wikipedia and http://www.roads.org.mk/ .

But i am not sure they are all up to date. Motorways - exitlists seems to be but it doesnt show exactly which parts are finished (or at least i cant figure it out)

I made map of my findings, can you use it to help me get latest info?

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...,0.154495&z=13

Thanks in forward!
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Old March 16th, 2009, 10:45 AM   #197
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As far as I know only the ones visible on Google Earth + bypass of Skopje are completed at the moment.
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Old March 16th, 2009, 06:52 PM   #198
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Quote:
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As far as I know only the ones visible on Google Earth + bypass of Skopje are completed at the moment.
actually, i think that section Negotino - Demir Kapija is completed (it is u/c at GE), just as Skopje bypass.
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Old March 16th, 2009, 08:12 PM   #199
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It is
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Old March 16th, 2009, 08:17 PM   #200
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Why the fyrom forum is locked?
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