Bangalore Update II - project news from Bangalore - Page 6

Sridhar · April 24th, 2006, 03:47 AM

Most maglev technologies, including the one in Shanghai, can technically be classified as monorails. I guess that is what is being referred to as high speed monorail. I don't personally see this coming up with purely private capital - if it all it comes up, it will involve significant Government subsidies and a recognition that it will not make money for some time to come. But of course, it would be a huge infrastructural leap for the Bangalore-Mysore corridor in particular and Bangalore in general.

magestom · April 24th, 2006, 04:02 AM

Shanghai Maglev goes at 450-512km per hour!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sridhar

Most maglev technologies, including the one in Shanghai, can technically be classified as monorails. I guess that is what is being referred to as high speed monorail. I don't personally see this coming up with purely private capital - if it all it comes up, it will involve significant Government subsidies and a recognition that it will not make money for some time to come. But of course, it would be a huge infrastructural leap for the Bangalore-Mysore corridor in particular and Bangalore in general.

Tintin27 · April 24th, 2006, 06:55 AM

High speed trains wont work well in india because of very high maintenance.. Japan has bullet trains but they also charge like Airlines (if not more!) for travelling on them. Not many ppl will be able to afford them here. Secondly, U have to build high speed, dedicated track fully with full fencing as well as very high starndard signalling system. In india, the driver still has to watch for a signal where as u get notified when to stop/slowdown on the dashboard of the driver abroad.. thirdly, what is the use of building highspeed tracks for running trains of around 250kph, when it will take us decades to build the tracks and when there are already trains running over 300kph elsewhere around the world.. you cannot run a 400kph train on a track made for 250kph..
Maglev is the only solution for highspeed trains around the world and few countries are working on tests.. I think India should also be researching on Maglev, which can run on indian condition and also maybe get involved with foreign consertiums researching on maglevs.. After all if there is a maglev service from say bangalore to mumbai, why would ppl pay so much on a 250kph train where this one will easily mroe than 500kph.... Maglev is currently very expensive to build but in long term its much cheaper than traditional high speed tracks, mainly because of the contactless atmosphere it uses to travel... So, the cost of travelling can be subsidised knowing the long term benefits

drwho · April 24th, 2006, 07:31 PM

Construction of Residential Towers for Prestige Shantiniketan Township in Bangalore (20060331)

http://www.prestigeconstructions.com...otogallery.htm

pding · April 24th, 2006, 10:16 PM

such super fast trains are going to prove disastrous for our culture, even in the cities. we should follow the same bottom-up formula. increase the avg. speed for all major sections of the country to 120-150 kmph.

vadi · April 25th, 2006, 12:24 AM

pding,
i did not understand your statement about super fast trains affecting our culture. can you explain.

with BIAL going to devanahalli in north and ITPL to whitefield east, i think for BMIC it is more of a business decision than a fancy.
It may not be super fast trains. but fast trains on bmic will actually improve the BMIC prospects.

pding · April 25th, 2006, 09:12 PM

for everybody it's gonna be a disaster when they see a super-fast train flying right by the side of a main road, for example. i wouldn't be surprised if ppl start protesting, saying "what if the damn bridge falls off, and this train falls on the road."

also, it will be over-investment if we go for super fast trains at this stage. expect for the fact that we can show off, it's neither practical and nor required.

adheet · April 25th, 2006, 11:04 PM

I suspect that high speed railway may never be implemented in India due to the economics of it. I dont think our constraint is our technology, or our ability to build the required infrastructure.

Inter city: high speed railway, given its huge infrastructure, maintenance, and operational costs, would not be able to complete with low cost avaition.
Intra city: high speed railway can only be implemented for point to point non-stop access. That may not make sense for most Indian cities.

But airport access is an interesting scenario. If all airlines have a city check in capability, then there could be a good business case for this. But the airport would have to be extremely far off for people to feel like NOT wanting to use the road.

Tintin27 · April 26th, 2006, 07:48 PM

Speaking of Highspeed, this is what I found from NEw Indian Express
This is from SKYTRAN website..

Alternative to Metro showcased
New Indian Express

BANGALORE: Even as the Government has decided to go ahead with the Metro rail project, a group of city engineers has come up with a faster and cheaper system to solve Bangalore’s traffic problems.

Named Sky Tran, the system is the brainchild of Douglas Malewicki of US. The system involves elevated guideways on which small, computer-controlled, magnetically elevated vehicles provide point-to-point on-demand transit service.

Sky Tran vehicles can travel at a speed of 100 miles an hour within the city and at 150 miles an hour between cities. It costs a tenth of a light train, and one guideway is equal to a three-lane freeway. Further, the system uses electricity and is virtually noiseless and eliminates the possibility of surface traffic collisions. The Sky Tran project, however, has remained a dream since 1990 as no Government has come forward to implement it. This is what provoked Stanley Ravi, who was working as a studio manager with UAE Air Force, to come down to Bangalore five years ago. He started looking for a team of engineers to build a prototype.

Since then Stanly has teamed up with engineers Rajashekar, Nagaraj and Anand. They are building a prototype of the Sky Tran model for the first time in the world, currently being assembled at Precise Engineering Models at Chowdeswarinagar.

The project head says he wants to produce many prototypes of Sky Tran to draw public and government attention to the unique system. The group has pooled in its savings and also received contributions from the public.

The unique system will have citywide off-line stops where you can board a waiting vehicle at the head of a queue. The destination can be selected with the help of a display menu or by voice activation, and payments can be made by credit card or a RFID device.

Before departure, sensors will determine the dynamic position of all oncoming Sky Tran vehicles on the high speed guide-way. At a precisely calculated moment, the off-line vehicle will accelerate and merge safely with mainline traffic. Once on-line, the vehicles go non-stop till the destination is reached.

UniModal Incorporated in Montana, USA, owns the key enabling technologies of the Sky Tran system.

vadi · April 26th, 2006, 09:05 PM

ideas one fancier than the other.
hey but atleast the man puts his money where his mouth is.

oth BMTC is trying real stuff right here right now.
direction based grid routes. local shuttles. bio fuels. distribution and stuff like that. its the one of the few govt agencies that is seen to be trying to innovate.

rest are all crooks. the mayor wants to wash streets. meanwhile thousands of gallons of tertiary processed water(almost portable quality) is going down the drains because another agency does not want to lay pipes. then people build on watersheds and throw crap in it and then complain of clogged streets.

bda tried to streamline tendering process and the whole idea promptly got court stayed by the contractor lobby.

bda lays roads and right next day like the neighbourhood rat in gutter, BSWWB comes and digs up. people violate bye laws and BMP snores.

the other sustainable idea in blore is the swabhimana movement of koramangala, malleshwaram etc. and the janaagraha type groups.
but it is a pity, these guys have to do what the govt agencies are paid for.

Babji · April 28th, 2006, 01:50 AM

URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2006/04/28/s...2824640100.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Centre gives green signal to Bangalore Metro Rail project

... The Union Cabinet on Thursday finally gave the green signal for the much-awaited Bangalore Metro Rail Project.

The project would have a debt-equity ratio of 70:30. The Centre and the Karnataka Government would contribute to the equity portion, each providing 15 per cent equity...

Govind D. Belgaumkar reports from Bangalore: Work on the biggest infrastructure project to decongest Bangalore's roads "can now actually begin" with the Union Cabinet approving the metro rail project.

The BMRC, which is implementing the project to provide 36.5 km of urban rail network, "can now start spending money," BMRC sources told The Hindu...

The project provides for two lines - one from Jalahalli Circle to R.V. Teachers' College in Jayanagar, and the other from Mysore Road to Byappanahalli...

The JBIC had pointed out that the problem of traffic congestion was serious with the population of Bangalore (over 60 lakhs now) doubling in over the past two decades...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bangalore Metro gets cabinet nod
[ Friday, April 28, 2006 12:03:22 amTIMES NEWS NETWORK ]

...S Jaipal Reddy said the Rs 6,395-crore project, to be completed by 2011, would cover a length of 33 km in two corridors...

Babji · April 28th, 2006, 02:12 AM

Congratulations, BLR folks!
there are several positive aspects with this MRTS plan:
1. Its a DMRC like model - partly underground, partly surface, mostly elevated
2. No monorail hassel - its rail based - efficient, economical, affordable
3. this approval is like attaining financial closure - so they can now call tenders for actual works.
4. originally planned only east-west corridor, now they got north-south also.
5. BLR may as well be the first metro in south to have the (new) MRTS operational (by 2011).
* * * * *

Hindustani · April 28th, 2006, 02:18 AM

Babji.............This is a great news for Blore. Sooner they get the financial closure the better. Pretty soon, Bangalorians will zip from UB city to suburbs in no time.

Babji · April 28th, 2006, 02:26 AM

Thats right, Hindustani!.
I hope,Hyd folks will also look at the affordability factor and think of an underground rail based MRTS for Sec'bad - Narayanaguda- Charminar - Falknuma corridor, as against a monorail model.

adheet · April 28th, 2006, 02:33 AM

Great news regarding Bangalore's metro. Hope its implemented soon and Bangalore's infrastructure can boast of a new airport and a metro system.

A truly well deserved breakthrough for Bangalore.

vadi · April 28th, 2006, 02:19 PM

babji,
they have always spoken of both north-south and east-west corridors.
now all attention on CMH road and kuvempu road traders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babji

Congratulations, BLR folks!
there are several positive aspects with this MRTS plan:
1. Its a DMRC like model - partly underground, partly surface, mostly elevated
2. No monorail hassel - its rail based - efficient, economical, affordable
3. this approval is like attaining financial closure - so they can now call tenders for actual works.
4. originally planned only east-west corridor, now they got north-south also.
5. BLR may as well be the first metro in south to have the (new) MRTS operational (by 2011).
* * * * *

metalfan · April 28th, 2006, 07:25 PM

The cost of maglev is pretty high. There are plans to build a bigger airport here in San Diego and one of the proposals involved a high-speed maglev to a remote desert site where there is ample space and the airport authority wouldn't have to deal with 15 years of lawsuits, but the cost of the maglev and infrastructure improvements is likely going to rule that site out.

- KC

Babji · April 29th, 2006, 01:35 AM

Can any one post a fare comparison btn rail based MRTS and Monorail from any location please.

case 1:
PATH train (Newark Penn stn - WTC ~ 20 mile) single ride fare: $1.50.
Monorail (Newark Intl Air Port train stn - Newrk Intl Airport ~ 5 mile) single ride fare: $5.00

vadi · April 29th, 2006, 01:51 AM

babji,
that would be unfair comparison simply because the network sizes are not even comparable. may be we should look at japanese rates.

Babji · April 29th, 2006, 01:54 AM

Could any one post some comparative study from Japan/ Malyasia/anywhere please.

ps: Honestly, I am not against monorail in a personal way.
but I sincerely beleive that an average Indian has to pay heavily for generations to come, for this technology.
Once they commit, they have to go with it and also have to expand for future needs.
This is indeed a major decision, from the personal commuting expenses point of view.
(majority of regular commuters are those who do not drive or who do not want to drive for various reasons, including economics). I know several people who own a personal car (as in not sharing with any family member) and still commute by local trains/Metro/MRTS to work. This may or may not apply to all locations - but still a point of consideration. (reasons: gas (petrol), tolls, parking, traffic etc - mostly economics).

Hot summer day temperatures are another factor which could impact the efficiency of this system in Southern states. It uses hard rubber tires with pneumatically controlled traction. three sets of tires move on three sides (top, left and right) of the monorail (usually made of steel or RCC, which could absorb heat).

if you travel to airport to catch a flight once in a while, you don't feel the pinch.
if you travel to work 5 days a week, every thing counts
(most employers do not reimburse commuting expenses).

April 24th, 2006, 07:31 PM	#104
drwho slacker oui! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 4,175 Likes (Received): 1	Construction of Residential Towers for Prestige Shantiniketan Township in Bangalore (20060331) http://www.prestigeconstructions.com...otogallery.htm __________________ ,Saab Turbo JL Racing

April 25th, 2006, 12:24 AM	#106
vadi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 361 Likes (Received): 0	pding, i did not understand your statement about super fast trains affecting our culture. can you explain. with BIAL going to devanahalli in north and ITPL to whitefield east, i think for BMIC it is more of a business decision than a fancy. It may not be super fast trains. but fast trains on bmic will actually improve the BMIC prospects. Last edited by vadi; April 25th, 2006 at 12:35 AM.

April 26th, 2006, 07:48 PM	#109
Tintin27 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 449 Likes (Received): 0	Speaking of Highspeed, this is what I found from NEw Indian Express This is from SKYTRAN website.. Alternative to Metro showcased New Indian Express BANGALORE: Even as the Government has decided to go ahead with the Metro rail project, a group of city engineers has come up with a faster and cheaper system to solve Bangalore’s traffic problems. Named Sky Tran, the system is the brainchild of Douglas Malewicki of US. The system involves elevated guideways on which small, computer-controlled, magnetically elevated vehicles provide point-to-point on-demand transit service. Sky Tran vehicles can travel at a speed of 100 miles an hour within the city and at 150 miles an hour between cities. It costs a tenth of a light train, and one guideway is equal to a three-lane freeway. Further, the system uses electricity and is virtually noiseless and eliminates the possibility of surface traffic collisions. The Sky Tran project, however, has remained a dream since 1990 as no Government has come forward to implement it. This is what provoked Stanley Ravi, who was working as a studio manager with UAE Air Force, to come down to Bangalore five years ago. He started looking for a team of engineers to build a prototype. Since then Stanly has teamed up with engineers Rajashekar, Nagaraj and Anand. They are building a prototype of the Sky Tran model for the first time in the world, currently being assembled at Precise Engineering Models at Chowdeswarinagar. The project head says he wants to produce many prototypes of Sky Tran to draw public and government attention to the unique system. The group has pooled in its savings and also received contributions from the public. The unique system will have citywide off-line stops where you can board a waiting vehicle at the head of a queue. The destination can be selected with the help of a display menu or by voice activation, and payments can be made by credit card or a RFID device. Before departure, sensors will determine the dynamic position of all oncoming Sky Tran vehicles on the high speed guide-way. At a precisely calculated moment, the off-line vehicle will accelerate and merge safely with mainline traffic. Once on-line, the vehicles go non-stop till the destination is reached. UniModal Incorporated in Montana, USA, owns the key enabling technologies of the Sky Tran system. Last edited by Tintin27; April 26th, 2006 at 08:02 PM.

April 28th, 2006, 01:50 AM	#111
Babji Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,709 Likes (Received): 1	URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2006/04/28/s...2824640100.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------- Centre gives green signal to Bangalore Metro Rail project ... The Union Cabinet on Thursday finally gave the green signal for the much-awaited Bangalore Metro Rail Project. The project would have a debt-equity ratio of 70:30. The Centre and the Karnataka Government would contribute to the equity portion, each providing 15 per cent equity... Govind D. Belgaumkar reports from Bangalore: Work on the biggest infrastructure project to decongest Bangalore's roads "can now actually begin" with the Union Cabinet approving the metro rail project. The BMRC, which is implementing the project to provide 36.5 km of urban rail network, "can now start spending money," BMRC sources told The Hindu... The project provides for two lines - one from Jalahalli Circle to R.V. Teachers' College in Jayanagar, and the other from Mysore Road to Byappanahalli... The JBIC had pointed out that the problem of traffic congestion was serious with the population of Bangalore (over 60 lakhs now) doubling in over the past two decades... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bangalore Metro gets cabinet nod [ Friday, April 28, 2006 12:03:22 amTIMES NEWS NETWORK ] ...S Jaipal Reddy said the Rs 6,395-crore project, to be completed by 2011, would cover a length of 33 km in two corridors... Last edited by Babji; April 28th, 2006 at 02:03 AM.

April 28th, 2006, 07:25 PM	#117
metalfan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 139 Likes (Received): 0	Maglev is infeasible The cost of maglev is pretty high. There are plans to build a bigger airport here in San Diego and one of the proposals involved a high-speed maglev to a remote desert site where there is ample space and the airport authority wouldn't have to deal with 15 years of lawsuits, but the cost of the maglev and infrastructure improvements is likely going to rule that site out. - KC

April 24th, 2006, 03:47 AM	#101
Sridhar Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,505 Likes (Received): 0	Most maglev technologies, including the one in Shanghai, can technically be classified as monorails. I guess that is what is being referred to as high speed monorail. I don't personally see this coming up with purely private capital - if it all it comes up, it will involve significant Government subsidies and a recognition that it will not make money for some time to come. But of course, it would be a huge infrastructural leap for the Bangalore-Mysore corridor in particular and Bangalore in general.

April 24th, 2006, 06:55 AM	#103
Tintin27 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 449 Likes (Received): 0	High speed trains wont work well in india because of very high maintenance.. Japan has bullet trains but they also charge like Airlines (if not more!) for travelling on them. Not many ppl will be able to afford them here. Secondly, U have to build high speed, dedicated track fully with full fencing as well as very high starndard signalling system. In india, the driver still has to watch for a signal where as u get notified when to stop/slowdown on the dashboard of the driver abroad.. thirdly, what is the use of building highspeed tracks for running trains of around 250kph, when it will take us decades to build the tracks and when there are already trains running over 300kph elsewhere around the world.. you cannot run a 400kph train on a track made for 250kph.. Maglev is the only solution for highspeed trains around the world and few countries are working on tests.. I think India should also be researching on Maglev, which can run on indian condition and also maybe get involved with foreign consertiums researching on maglevs.. After all if there is a maglev service from say bangalore to mumbai, why would ppl pay so much on a 250kph train where this one will easily mroe than 500kph.... Maglev is currently very expensive to build but in long term its much cheaper than traditional high speed tracks, mainly because of the contactless atmosphere it uses to travel... So, the cost of travelling can be subsidised knowing the long term benefits

April 24th, 2006, 10:16 PM	#105
pding Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,136 Likes (Received): 0	such super fast trains are going to prove disastrous for our culture, even in the cities. we should follow the same bottom-up formula. increase the avg. speed for all major sections of the country to 120-150 kmph.

April 25th, 2006, 09:12 PM	#107
pding Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,136 Likes (Received): 0	for everybody it's gonna be a disaster when they see a super-fast train flying right by the side of a main road, for example. i wouldn't be surprised if ppl start protesting, saying "what if the damn bridge falls off, and this train falls on the road." also, it will be over-investment if we go for super fast trains at this stage. expect for the fact that we can show off, it's neither practical and nor required.

April 25th, 2006, 11:04 PM	#108
adheet Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 98 Likes (Received): 0	I suspect that high speed railway may never be implemented in India due to the economics of it. I dont think our constraint is our technology, or our ability to build the required infrastructure. Inter city: high speed railway, given its huge infrastructure, maintenance, and operational costs, would not be able to complete with low cost avaition. Intra city: high speed railway can only be implemented for point to point non-stop access. That may not make sense for most Indian cities. But airport access is an interesting scenario. If all airlines have a city check in capability, then there could be a good business case for this. But the airport would have to be extremely far off for people to feel like NOT wanting to use the road.

April 26th, 2006, 09:05 PM	#110
vadi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 361 Likes (Received): 0	ideas one fancier than the other. hey but atleast the man puts his money where his mouth is. oth BMTC is trying real stuff right here right now. direction based grid routes. local shuttles. bio fuels. distribution and stuff like that. its the one of the few govt agencies that is seen to be trying to innovate. rest are all crooks. the mayor wants to wash streets. meanwhile thousands of gallons of tertiary processed water(almost portable quality) is going down the drains because another agency does not want to lay pipes. then people build on watersheds and throw crap in it and then complain of clogged streets. bda tried to streamline tendering process and the whole idea promptly got court stayed by the contractor lobby. bda lays roads and right next day like the neighbourhood rat in gutter, BSWWB comes and digs up. people violate bye laws and BMP snores. the other sustainable idea in blore is the swabhimana movement of koramangala, malleshwaram etc. and the janaagraha type groups. but it is a pity, these guys have to do what the govt agencies are paid for.

April 28th, 2006, 02:12 AM	#112
Babji Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,709 Likes (Received): 1	Congratulations, BLR folks! there are several positive aspects with this MRTS plan: 1. Its a DMRC like model - partly underground, partly surface, mostly elevated 2. No monorail hassel - its rail based - efficient, economical, affordable 3. this approval is like attaining financial closure - so they can now call tenders for actual works. 4. originally planned only east-west corridor, now they got north-south also. 5. BLR may as well be the first metro in south to have the (new) MRTS operational (by 2011). * * * * *

April 28th, 2006, 02:18 AM	#113
Hindustani Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,015 Likes (Received): 7	Babji.............This is a great news for Blore. Sooner they get the financial closure the better. Pretty soon, Bangalorians will zip from UB city to suburbs in no time.

April 28th, 2006, 02:26 AM	#114
Babji Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,709 Likes (Received): 1	Thats right, Hindustani!. I hope,Hyd folks will also look at the affordability factor and think of an underground rail based MRTS for Sec'bad - Narayanaguda- Charminar - Falknuma corridor, as against a monorail model.

April 28th, 2006, 02:33 AM	#115
adheet Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 98 Likes (Received): 0	Great news regarding Bangalore's metro. Hope its implemented soon and Bangalore's infrastructure can boast of a new airport and a metro system. A truly well deserved breakthrough for Bangalore.

April 29th, 2006, 01:35 AM	#118
Babji Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,709 Likes (Received): 1	Can any one post a fare comparison btn rail based MRTS and Monorail from any location please. case 1: PATH train (Newark Penn stn - WTC ~ 20 mile) single ride fare: $1.50. Monorail (Newark Intl Air Port train stn - Newrk Intl Airport ~ 5 mile) single ride fare: $5.00

April 29th, 2006, 01:51 AM	#119
vadi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 361 Likes (Received): 0	babji, that would be unfair comparison simply because the network sizes are not even comparable. may be we should look at japanese rates.

April 29th, 2006, 01:54 AM	#120
Babji Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,709 Likes (Received): 1	Rail based MRTS Vs. Monorail - personal commuting expenses Could any one post some comparative study from Japan/ Malyasia/anywhere please. ps: Honestly, I am not against monorail in a personal way. but I sincerely beleive that an average Indian has to pay heavily for generations to come, for this technology. Once they commit, they have to go with it and also have to expand for future needs. This is indeed a major decision, from the personal commuting expenses point of view. (majority of regular commuters are those who do not drive or who do not want to drive for various reasons, including economics). I know several people who own a personal car (as in not sharing with any family member) and still commute by local trains/Metro/MRTS to work. This may or may not apply to all locations - but still a point of consideration. (reasons: gas (petrol), tolls, parking, traffic etc - mostly economics). Hot summer day temperatures are another factor which could impact the efficiency of this system in Southern states. It uses hard rubber tires with pneumatically controlled traction. three sets of tires move on three sides (top, left and right) of the monorail (usually made of steel or RCC, which could absorb heat). if you travel to airport to catch a flight once in a while, you don't feel the pinch. if you travel to work 5 days a week, every thing counts (most employers do not reimburse commuting expenses). Last edited by Babji; April 29th, 2006 at 02:52 AM.

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