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Old June 10th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #2041
ChrisZwolle
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You guys are finding out that European countries are not shaped like a square like U.S. states?
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Old June 10th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #2042
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Since the 1st of January of this year, the Austrians have legislated the "Rettungsgasse". This means that in an event of congestion, on dual lane motorways, stationary and slow moving traffic has to move respectively to the far right and far left. On a triple lane motorway, traffic on the inside lane has to move to the far right, and lane 1 and 2 has to move to the far left. A similar thing was introduced in Germany, although nobody seem to be taken notice. In Austria they take this law very seriously, but the problem being with the high amount of foreigners on the road who are unaware of this new law, the practice is somewhat lacking progress on these new measures. ASFINAG has invested a lot of money to provide information on this new Rettungsgasse, by providing road signs, matrix signal notices and brochures in most European languages, available at any filling station.


A lot of people not aware creates this situation:

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Old June 10th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #2043
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i know i will be probably virtually crucified now, but i think this new law of "rettungsgasse" is kind of unnecessary and annoying. in most of the cases the reason of the jam is simply due to the heavy traffic or some construction site. therefore it makes absolutely no sense to drive on the side if traffic still flows -and there is no accident. i mean you still can hear and see if a police car (or whatever) approaches + and of course they still can use the hard shoulders.

its another thing if you are forced to completely stop your vehicle, then of course its OK to go to the side. but driving on the side of the road for example on A23 in rush hour when you drive probably with not more than 30 km/h is completely pointless in my opinion. we have these fancy matrix signs on nearly all of our motorways, where you can see if its just a normal "stau" or is it really an accident.

so i think it would be better if the slogan would be like: "bei Unfall, Rettungsgasse" and not "bei Staubildung, Rettungsgasse".

Last edited by JackFrost; June 10th, 2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #2044
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I fully agree with you. It's a total waste of time and money, especially in a country like Austria. And with the high volume of foreign traffic on the road, who are not educated on this, who is going to obey anyway...
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Old June 10th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #2045
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yes, this idiotism is one of the few things i hope we will never see in eastern europe...
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Old June 10th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #2046
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That's where the wide and continuous shoulders come in handy. Some people claim it's a waste of money to construct 4 meter wide shoulders instead of 2.5 meters, but it's 1) much safer if a truck breaks down, 2) better for the flow of emergency vehicles and 3) allows for a 4-0 setup with a higher speed limit during roadworks, meaning roadworks last shorter and are more cost-effective.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #2047
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Austrian shoulders appear to be wide enough, and are near-continuous anyway. And as Jack Frost quite rightly pointed out, most congestions in Austria are not accident related. Different story in countries like the Netherlands and the UK, where one incident can clog an entire network up. And they fully rely on hard shoulders...
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Old June 10th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #2048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You guys are finding out that European countries are not shaped like a square like U.S. states?
we're just trying to find some fun stuff.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #2049
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Why don't cars stay in their lanes and emergency vehicles go on the hard shoulder (emergency lane)? I've seen just once a motorway accident and everyone stopped the cars on lanes 1 & 2, and the emergency lane was left clear.

Pics from M5 motorway in Hungary (close to M43 interchange):









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Old June 10th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #2050
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Not allowed in Austria anymore. They like to do things a little different...
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Old June 10th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #2051
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Austrian must learn to do things in Balkan way.. you can't be just perfectionist and prepered for everything.

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Old June 10th, 2012, 09:14 PM   #2052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Why don't cars stay in their lanes and emergency vehicles go on the hard shoulder (emergency lane)? I've seen just once a motorway accident and everyone stopped the cars on lanes 1 & 2, and the emergency lane was left clear.
very good question.

nobody can tell me that it is easier to drive a police/ambulance car between 2 rows of constantly moving vehicles as on the hard shoulder where you have to only watch your left side, since on your right there is the crash barrier. of course the police should fine the shit out of people using the hard shoulders illegally while waiting in a traffic jam (which is one possible explanation why austria introduced that horrible law).
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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #2053
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1. If a broken vehicle actually blocks the emergency shoulder (as it has to do on a motorway) before the actual accident, the whole road is blocked for emergency vehicles which should go further. You'll hardly be able to go around that vehicle if there's a jam on the right lane.
2. In case of emergency, with the Rettungsgasse it is possible for emergency vehicles to directly access all vehicles in the jam (because the Rettungsgasse is in the middle of the road, the emergency shoulder on the side). Same is true for first aid during super-jams on those hot summer traffic peak days where lots of people are at potential risk of suffering heat strokes, etc.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #2054
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as i said, its okay when an accident happened -although i think that a broken vehicle on the hard shoulder is quite rare.
but its definately very annoying when its only an ordinary traffic jam.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #2055
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Austria's Autobahn operator (ASFINAG) also claims on it's website that studies from Germany have shown that rescue forces show up on site up to 4 minutes faster due to the Rettungsgasse, since they can drive much faster through the broader Rettungsgasse alley than on the rather narrow emergency shoulder.

BTW: Rettungsgasse is used in Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Czech Republic and Slovenia. So most countries surrounding Austria are already familiar with it.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #2056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Frost View Post
as i said, its okay when an accident happened -although i think that a broken vehicle on the hard shoulder is quite rare.
but its definately very annoying when its only an ordinary traffic jam.
Doesn't matter. You can't tell what's the reason for the jam and quite frankly you're not any slower due to the Rettungsgasse.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #2057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Austria's Autobahn operator (ASFINAG) also claims on it's website that studies from Germany have shown that rescue forces show up on site up to 4 minutes faster due to the Rettungsgasse, since they can drive much faster through the broader Rettungsgasse alley than on the rather narrow emergency shoulder.

BTW: Rettungsgasse is used in Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Czech Republic and Slovenia. So most countries surrounding Austria are already familiar with it.
No, they are not familiar with it at all. It might be law there, but nobody does it. Sitting in traffic in Germany is like a hobby of mine, and I only saw a Rettungsgasse being formed once, on the A3 at Würzburg, due to roadworks on the shoulder. I have never been stuck in traffic in Slovenia, have been at all other countries, and never saw a Rettungsgasse there. Poor attempts on the A12 Inntal Autobahn is the closest thing I saw... In any case, Austrians like to do things a little different, because it is silly and a waste of time and money. Congestion is very little in Austria, and mostly volume of traffic related. It should take a look at how countries where real congestions are and how they tackle the problem, and spend some money in changing road signs.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #2058
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Well, here I give you the longest road tunnel in the world. Could be any road tunnel in Norway. Other motorway-tunnels are similar of design, and nothing implies that the 25 km undersea Rogfast motorway tunnel would have any different entrance.

So at least here in Norway we don't make masterpieces out of tunnel entrances just because of importance.

http://goo.gl/maps/mQAB
Where is machinery and electrical equipment housed? Also traffic expected in Karawankentunnel is much greater and intense than in Norwegian tunnels so there are more demands on safety and therefore more equipements is needed (and as we know, Norwewgian tunnels are not considered the safest in Europe).

I agree that some lower profile portals could be made, but they didn't choose so. Second tube won't have such huge portals that's for sure.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 07:39 PM   #2059
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Doesn't matter. You can't tell what's the reason for the jam and quite frankly you're not any slower due to the Rettungsgasse.
you really think it makes sense to do the rettungsgasse over and over again every morning and afternoon f.e. on A7 in Linz, A14 before pfändertunnel A22, A23, A2, A4 in vienna when there is only a simple little congestion??? i dont think so.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #2060
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@keber.

Typically there are small electrical rooms just inside the tunnel entrance, or just outside. It will only be a small box anyway. This controls closing the tunnels, fans, lighting and all other stuff. Fans are standard inside this and other new tunnels.

Also, we have a central traffic management building, so all the cameras and sensors are monitored somewhere else, not in an office next to the tunnel. They can remotely shut down the tunnel, or it might shut itself down if a fire is detected.

Regarding Norways rather bad reputation in tunnel safety:
There are A LOT of tunnels in Norway. They are hundreds of short, old tunnels. And some of the longer ones are in the middle of nowhere. They are also old and not anywhere near the safety levels that are demanded today. This pulls the statistic down. All new tunnels are built to european standards, and to the joy of us motorists, many of them are dualled, not because of traffic volumes, but because of safety demands an escape tunnel. Those are not built here, we just build another tube and get on with it. It all depends on traffic volumes anyway.

There's obviously a lot more to it than just this, but these are the main points. Also, there are statistically fewer accidents in tunnels.

@Rettungsgasse
I have to agree with @ChrisZwolle here. Proper shoulders are the backbone of getting quickly to an accident. It's there, it's supposed to be clear just because of this, it makes sense and people don't have to learn how to deal with a rettungsgasse. If there are vehicles blocking the road before the accident, well as you see in @seem's video, that can happen in any lane, not just the hard shoulder. It should be possible to pass it anyway.
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