daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 21st, 2012, 08:31 PM   #2161
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

Such a connection was planned in the 1970s, but abandoned for obvious reasons.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 21st, 2012, 08:43 PM   #2162
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

It would go right through holiday and ski resorts, either via Kitzbuehel, or over the Gerlospass and through the Zillertal. And people here in the Zillertal don't want a motorway here, we've been down this road before. Here we are quite happy going through Germany to get to Salzburg.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:54 AM   #2163
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

I agree fully with the posters above. Money doesn't grow on trees and the mountain villages indeed look better without a motorway there. Besides what's the obsession with speed at all costs anyway? Few years ago I deliberately drove from Vienna to Insbruck and further to Switzerland through Austria only - the local road was quite nice and not particularly slow or congested.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 01:08 AM   #2164
Singidunum
Grad Oblakodera
 
Singidunum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Beograd
Posts: 35,544
Likes (Received): 16175

So basically it's not the money that's the issue but NIMBYs? Even if it means losing millions every year on lost toll money?
__________________
Like Skyscrapercity Serbian Forum on Facebook

Potpišite peticiju protiv rušenja Generalštaba!
Singidunum no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:21 AM   #2165
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21248

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Besides what's the obsession with speed at all costs anyway?
Time is money, except for the occasional holidaymaker.

Imagine if no highways existed and driving from - say - Frankfurt to Verona took 28 hours instead of 9...
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 07:25 AM   #2166
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Time is the stuff of which life is made. Wasting time is wasting life.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 11:35 AM   #2167
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,472
Likes (Received): 3445

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Time is money, except for the occasional holidaymaker.
.
time is not an issue here at all because using existing route via Germany is equally long. that link would be useful only to somebody coming from direction Villach to Innsbruck, but then again the fact that it would connect A10 in Bischofshofen instead of Altenmarkt is not very useful.
btw there are 3 sections that are already built and had to be a part of that project: Bischofshofen bypass, Zell am See bypass and Lend bypass. probably that tunnel near Schwarzach also.
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 11:53 AM   #2168
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
there are 3 sections that are already built and had to be a part of that project: Bischofshofen bypass, Zell am See bypass and Lend bypass. probably that tunnel near Schwarzach also.
Are these 2x2?
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 01:20 PM   #2169
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,039
Likes (Received): 8718

Bischofshofen and Lend is.
__________________
Europa per gli europei
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:13 PM   #2170
Singidunum
Grad Oblakodera
 
Singidunum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Beograd
Posts: 35,544
Likes (Received): 16175

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
time is not an issue here at all because using existing route via Germany is equally long. that link would be useful only to somebody coming from direction Villach to Innsbruck, but then again the fact that it would connect A10 in Bischofshofen instead of Altenmarkt is not very useful.
Well there should be a southern connection too. Probably even before the north one because in the north there is an option through Germany. In the South there is no option, there is no motorway in that direction through Italy. So what, someone from Villach, or more specifically Spittal, going to Innsbruck has to go all the way to north, go to Germany, and then come back south or go through the mountains? Sounds like a waste of time and money.
__________________
Like Skyscrapercity Serbian Forum on Facebook

Potpišite peticiju protiv rušenja Generalštaba!
Singidunum no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:41 PM   #2171
rower2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zurich [CH], formerly Bregenz [A]
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 91

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Well there should be a southern connection too. Probably even before the north one because in the north there is an option through Germany. In the South there is no option, there is no motorway in that direction through Italy. So what, someone from Villach, or more specifically Spittal, going to Innsbruck has to go all the way to north, go to Germany, and then come back south or go through the mountains? Sounds like a waste of time and money.
Building a motorway of 140 km for the couple of people wanting to go from Villach to Innsbruck sounds like a waste of money. The highway from Bischofshofen to Wörgl has pretty good standard and not as much traffic as to call for a motorway. For the connection Innsbruck -> Vienna or Bregenz -> Vienna, the route through Germany is shorter, faster, and existant, so why spend a couple of billions of Euros for a motorway hardly anybody needs. One can drive on normal highways also, a motorway connection from Bischofshofen to Wörgl would save 50 to 60 km versus the route Bischofshofen -> Salzburg -> Rosenheim -> Wörgl, maybe 40 min of driving time compared to the B311 route and 30 min of driving time compared to the A10 -> A1 -> A8.de -> A93.de -> A12 route. The cost-benefit-ratio of that project must be at an absurd value...
rower2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:44 PM   #2172
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

Traffic volumes on A10 are rather low, the tunnel section carries only 15.000 - 16.000 vehicles per day, and only a small amount of that traffic is bound to Innsbruck. They're not going to build a motorway for maybe 5.000 vehicles per day.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:49 PM   #2173
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Some people here just don't understand cost/benefit analysis... It's not always better to build than not to build. There are some areas of Europe where more motorways are really needed (mostly but not exclusively in the East) but Austria is not that place. There it makes sense to invest extra money in rail and in urban transport.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:53 PM   #2174
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,185

I guess that some bypass-es and some sections built at 2x2 standard (for overtaking) would be ok on this route for the next years.
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:59 PM   #2175
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,039
Likes (Received): 8718

People traveling Villach - Innsbruck should use the highway via Lienz - Sillian and Brennerautobahn.
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 05:19 PM   #2176
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Traffic volumes on A10 are rather low, the tunnel section carries only 15.000 - 16.000 vehicles per day, and only a small amount of that traffic is bound to Innsbruck. They're not going to build a motorway for maybe 5.000 vehicles per day.
Traffic would probably be rather low, but much more than 5,000 AADT, I think. Isn't there more traffic on ordinary roads already now?
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 05:20 PM   #2177
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
I guess that some bypass-es and some sections built at 2x2 standard (for overtaking) would be ok on this route for the next years.
In my opinion, it would be enough to upgrade a few more sections to 2+1 or 2x2. Even an S-class expressway seems excessive.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 05:49 PM   #2178
rower2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zurich [CH], formerly Bregenz [A]
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 91

Check this out (sorry, German only):
http://saalfelden.riskommunal.net/ge...22346802_1.pdf

If you look at the traffic densities on slide 3 it is obvious that the majority of traffic on this axis is not transit, but local traffic to and from Zell am See and Saalfelden with a maximum AADT of approximately 20,000 cars/24 hrs between said towns. The density on B311 outside of the town cluster is just approximately 8,500 cars/24 hrs, far below any need for a motorway. Local 1+1 or maybe 2+1 bypasses will suffice for years in that region.
rower2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:05 PM   #2179
Singidunum
Grad Oblakodera
 
Singidunum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Beograd
Posts: 35,544
Likes (Received): 16175

Did all German motorways have the required daily traffic at the time of their construction? Are there no local roads that are motorways without heavy transit?
__________________
Like Skyscrapercity Serbian Forum on Facebook

Potpišite peticiju protiv rušenja Generalštaba!
Singidunum no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:24 PM   #2180
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
Check this out (sorry, German only):
http://saalfelden.riskommunal.net/ge...22346802_1.pdf

If you look at the traffic densities on slide 3 it is obvious that the majority of traffic on this axis is not transit, but local traffic to and from Zell am See and Saalfelden with a maximum AADT of approximately 20,000 cars/24 hrs between said towns. The density on B311 outside of the town cluster is just approximately 8,500 cars/24 hrs, far below any need for a motorway. Local 1+1 or maybe 2+1 bypasses will suffice for years in that region.
I think it would increase to some 15,000 AADT. I think they could build at least a 2-lane expressway; getting from Villach/Klagenfurt/Slovenia to Innsbruck is quite time-consuming.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
austria

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium