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Old September 2nd, 2012, 02:18 PM   #2281
Road_UK
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No. They don't want new motorways in Tirol, and there is no way that the outside (Dutch) world are going to dictate them in building new roads, because some of you love concrete. A12 is fine as it is, and via Kufstein is a good connection.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:30 AM   #2282
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I really hope someday, somehow the central Austrian government railroads (pun intended) the whining annoying NIMBYs of Tyrol and build all those highway links, regardless of what anti-progress back-to-1830 villagers think.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:32 AM   #2283
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You're freaking fascist.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:53 AM   #2284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
I really hope someday, somehow the central Austrian government railroads (pun intended) the whining annoying NIMBYs of Tyrol and build all those highway links, regardless of what anti-progress back-to-1830 villagers think.
It's not going to happen. There is no need for them, tourism and keeping the majestic beauty and clean air in tact is far more important. Holland has become one of the ugliest countries in the world, with all that concrete, brick, crime-ridden suburban housing estates. And it has no mountains or areas of outstanding beauty, so you wouldn't possibly understand what its like living over here in the fresh air. What do you care anyway, you don't even live here. Go and cut another tree in your concrete jungle...
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:56 AM   #2285
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You're freaking fascist.
On the contrary.

I'm against the idea of local hyper-sensitivities getting stuck in the road of development and infrastructure progress.

It is not like I don't favor monetary compensation for ROWs acquired, for instance, but I don't think no community is "entitled" to keep its "character" if an infrastructure is to be built over it.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:00 AM   #2286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist

On the contrary.

I'm against the idea of local hyper-sensitivities getting stuck in the road of development and infrastructure progress.

It is not like I don't favor monetary compensation for ROWs acquired, for instance, but I don't think no community is "entitled" to keep its "character" if an infrastructure is to be built over it.
Edit.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 11:08 AM   #2287
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The concept of mitigation appears to be completely alien to some people.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 12:16 PM   #2288
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Yes, well if it does come to a stage that villages, vital incomes generated by tourism and farming, areas of outstanding beauty and fine old traditions are to be buried in concrete, I hope that the locals will do whatever it takes to protect their property and right of existence.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 12:51 PM   #2289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
On the contrary.

I'm against the idea of local hyper-sensitivities getting stuck in the road of development and infrastructure progress.

It is not like I don't favor monetary compensation for ROWs acquired, for instance, but I don't think no community is "entitled" to keep its "character" if an infrastructure is to be built over it.
Autobahn is no progress. Getting rid of those traffic monsters is a progress. You don't get to decide for other people what kind of infrastructure suites them best. Especially if you don't know anything about the area in question, which is quite obvious in this case.

Monetary compensation? How do you compensate the loss of quality of living? That is simply not possible.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 01:01 PM   #2290
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Bravo. I agree with you on every word!
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 01:12 PM   #2291
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I'm sure that demolishing motorways and send all traffic through towns and cities will dramatically improve the quality of life there.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 01:59 PM   #2292
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Nobody has said anything about demolishing existing motorways.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 08:55 PM   #2293
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Nobody has said anything about demolishing existing motorways.
But then you are a hypocrite, because it is only modern technology (from electricity to all forms of telecommunications and transport) that made life in Alpine valleys these days to be "idyllic" and not "harsh and dangerous" as it was the case up to mid-18th Century when there were isolated places and their quality of life non-existent beyond survival (and things like fondue were a matter of not starving to death instead of fusion cuisine).

Imagine the Alps without any motorway... it would take 14h to go from Milano to Strasbourg for instance.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 08:58 PM   #2294
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Autobahn is no progress. Getting rid of those traffic monsters is a progress. You don't get to decide for other people what kind of infrastructure suites them best. Especially if you don't know anything about the area in question, which is quite obvious in this case.
Certain infrastructure works have wider implication than benefiting those immediately along its physical presence. Otherwise, places far from power plants would be out of electricity because large electric mains are a huge eyesore, right?

I have utter disregard for this baseless localism that sees fragile places that rely on electricity, food, external defense protection, telecommunications etc. from elsewhere to claim they are too good to put up with infrastructure those other places might need for commerce or transport or what else.

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Monetary compensation? How do you compensate the loss of quality of living? That is simply not possible.
One word: people should get over it. Tyrol or any other small region are not islands of self-sufficiency isolated from the national states they are parts of and rely much upon.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:09 PM   #2295
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Do not even attempt to cover your nonsense up by talking about electricity and stuff. You want to destroy parts of Tyrol by building motorways that are a: not needed, and b: would change the way of lifes of people who you don't know or care about. And you don't even live here, you are not a voter here, so basically, you can go to hell with your sick ideas. Our existing infrastructure with the A12 and A13 is just fine, as well as the roads over the Fernpass, Scharnitz and Achensee.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:15 PM   #2296
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Let's ratchet down the personal attacks. Please keep the discussion focused on impersonal ideas, not on the people putting forth the ideas.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:20 PM   #2297
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I am sorry, but I can't stand people that have total disregard for other people's lifes and property. Also have to remind him that Tyrol is selfsufficiant when it comes to electricity.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:24 PM   #2298
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Quote:
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I am sorry, but I can't stand people that have total disregard for other people's lifes and property.
So nobody should build nothing nowhere... because other people in other parts of the world have lives and properties.
Or are only those of people living in Austrian valleys worth?
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:32 PM   #2299
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Read his posts. It comes from the same guy that is willing to destroy parts of the most wonderful ancient historic city centres of Italy for the sake of a few roads, and you crossed swords with him as well on that subject. And Tyrol is a large area that relies on beauty and tourism.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:39 PM   #2300
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Quote:
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Read his posts. It comes from the same guy that is willing to destroy parts of the most wonderful ancient historic city centres of Italy for the sake of a few roads, and you crossed swords with him as well on that subject.
Discussing people, rather than ideas, is exactly what needs to stop.
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