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Old December 24th, 2012, 07:13 AM   #2561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Frost View Post
they tend to forget cities too: the city of wels is nowhere mentioned on A1 (nearly 60000 inhabitants), first sign mentioning wels is at A1/A7 interchange near linz. also A25 appears nowhere on A1 until linz.
That's because key cities are Salzburg, Linz and Vienna.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 10:25 AM   #2562
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still, somehow strange to me. its a big city. and also a very important city for logistics. for example the city of sopron in hungary is about the same size as wels, and it is signed on M1 everywhere, although the closest (hungarian) motorway exit is 90 kilometers away.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #2563
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Let's take the M1 in England for example: all major cities along the motorway are: London, St Albans, Luton, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Coventry, Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield and Leeds, with branches to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Bradford and Hull. All places with a population over 50.000 I'd say. It would look pretty messy on the roadsigns starting in either London or Leeds.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #2564
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How significant a city is depends on where other significant cities are. In case of Wels it's sort of overshadowed by larger Linz. If Wels was somewhere between Salzburg and Villach it would have likely been signed earlier.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #2565
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about Rettungsgasse: if you are in right lane, are you supposed to move onto SOS lane, or just rightmost at your driving lane?
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Old December 24th, 2012, 06:52 PM   #2566
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Rettungsgasse.com

See this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1UbZ...layer_embedded

also see http://www.asfinag.at/was-ist-die-rettungsgasse
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Old December 24th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #2567
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about Rettungsgasse: if you are in right lane, are you supposed to move onto SOS lane, or just rightmost at your driving lane?
You're supposed to straddle righthand / shoulder.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #2568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
The Austrian signage would be OK, if those morons-in-charge would adhere to the guidelines published in the RVS (max two destinations plus the next exit on the main lanes, max two destinations on the exit arrow). But they tend to quadruple the allowed number of destinations in the Vienna area .
http://htlwiki.net/index.php?title=R...auf_Autobahnen
Interesting read...

My main pet peeve;

* use of both Eng- and Mittelschrift
* use of cursive letters
* use of various letter sizes (up to 5 is possible)

And especially a combination of these.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 08:16 PM   #2569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
How significant a city is depends on where other significant cities are. In case of Wels it's sort of overshadowed by larger Linz. If Wels was somewhere between Salzburg and Villach it would have likely been signed earlier.
True, Wels is overshadowed by larger Linz. OTOH, you won't see any sign for Klagenfurt in Ljubljana, only smaller Villach, because it's a more important road junction. Klagenfurt only appears by Kranj.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #2570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post

Interesting read...

My main pet peeve;

* use of both Eng- and Mittelschrift
* use of cursive letters
* use of various letter sizes (up to 5 is possible)

And especially a combination of these.
They are changing things over to mittelschrift now. All new signs have them here. Just like the way they are changing the signs over in the Netherlands, where you have a strange mishmash of arrows up-arrows down and the mixture of designs and layout.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #2571
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I know that most of you around here are complaining about road signage in Austria, but to be honest, after driving many km in Austria I didn't have any problems understanding the signs. You are right, if we take a closer look on my pics we can all see that it's a little bit messy compared to other countries, but it's not that bad...
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Old December 25th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #2572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
I know that most of you around here are complaining about road signage in Austria, but to be honest, after driving many km in Austria I didn't have any problems understanding the signs. You are right, if we take a closer look on my pics we can all see that it's a little bit messy compared to other countries, but it's not that bad...
After driving many km in Austria you are not dependent on the singage, you know where and how to drive. But the singage must be clear even for a driver who is in Vienna for the first time.
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Old December 25th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #2573
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Quote:
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After driving many km in Austria you are not dependent on the singage, you know where and how to drive. But the singage must be clear even for a driver who is in Vienna for the first time.
Exactly! I lived in Vienna for a year and I am able to navigate the area only because I already have some knowledge of the area. When I have to go someplace new to me, as happened a few months ago, I first have to carefully study the route I mean to take, and then try to read the signs as I go. It rarely works the first time because the signs usually indicate places a foreigner would never be able to associate with the intended destination. It's easier for an English speaker to navigate Shanghai than Vienna.
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Old December 25th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #2574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Exactly! I lived in Vienna for a year and I am able to navigate the area only because I already have some knowledge of the area. When I have to go someplace new to me, as happened a few months ago, I first have to carefully study the route I mean to take, and then try to read the signs as I go. It rarely works the first time because the signs usually indicate places a foreigner would never be able to associate with the intended destination. It's easier for an English speaker to navigate Shanghai than Vienna.
To be honest, the same applies IMHO to Switzerland. They also tend to over-cram the motorway signs, and the off-motorway signage can be very hard to follow (especially within Zurich).

My pet peeve on the Austrian signage is the overuse of useless road numbers. IMHO, it's simply not necessary to sign Linz (A21 A1) as long as you are on A23. A21 only becomes relevant once you are approaching the A23/A2/A21/S1 intersection - then it should be signed A21 Linz (again, without the A1). This just overcrowds the already overcrowded signs even more.

However, the phenomenon of "Dorfkaiser", or village emperors, as we call them, is pretty widespread within Austria - meaning, every such Dorfkaiser wants to read the name of his town on a motorway exitsign. I once tried to reason per e-mail with the responsible guys at Asfinag, they even promised to look into the matter (the signage at Knoten Eibesbrunn coming from Brno, where Graz is signed VERY prone to call for misunderstandings). However, I doubt anything has changed there...
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Old December 25th, 2012, 02:07 PM   #2575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
To be honest, the same applies IMHO to Switzerland. They also tend to over-cram the motorway signs, and the off-motorway signage can be very hard to follow (especially within Zurich).
.
maybe, but there is huge difference between A and CH signs: CH has probably one of aestheticly the most clear signs, while A has quite a mess with arrows, numbers, fonts, allignment...
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Old December 25th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #2576
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ASFiNAG does have a handbook with Fernziele and Bereichsziele (control cities) but I doubt whether they have any rules about Nahziele (nearby destinations) which appear on exit signs.

Sometimes the list of Nahziele is a bit too long considering they are displayed only once (only the exit name itself is displayed at all signs in the Zeichenkette at a motorway exit.)
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Old December 25th, 2012, 11:59 PM   #2577
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If I drive somewhere for the first time I use navigation and then signs matter not

I've been in Vienna with a car only once and it worked well enough.
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Old January 13th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #2578
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In A11 is very bad in July. There are a lot of "Kyle's vans" and you stay 1 hour (near Karawanken) in a traffic-jam. and to Obala is better to go via Italy
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Old January 13th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #2579
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What are "Kyle's vans"?
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Old January 13th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #2580
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What are "Kyle's vans"?
Campers. I took this termin from Kick Buttowski
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