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Old February 1st, 2013, 01:55 PM   #2621
cinxxx
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A friend living in Vienna told me some stories when I was there in December that killed most myths about how great everything is there.

Things like the company he works for, to not change the waterpump of the car after the required number of km, but turn the km back after the pump fails, and ask for it to be replaced because the car is still in warranty.

Then I got a 36€ fine for parking on a street were you have no sign of payed parking, no signed place where to buy tickets. Only at the beginning of the zone it's written that it's a street with limited payed parking, but who sees the sign when trying to navigate at the destination. Not to say, just some months ago there was no payed parking there.
So you can only buy tickets at shops, which evidently are closed at night and Sundays. Hello, in Timisoara you can pay by SMS or you can buy a ticket, it's all written on the sign that you find on every street. And gas stations are oppened 24/7.

So the only real difference is, that you have great infrastructure, some better laws, higher paychecks, good healthcare, but in the end you find the same Balkan things, only in a legal package... you can have a better life in that package, I don't deny it, but much is overrated though.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:05 PM   #2622
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"Der Balkan fängt am Rennweg an."

Parking tickets can be bought at any cigarettes vending machine or via SMS, but I admit it is confusing for someone not from Vienna and the city is to blame for the lack of comunication.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:15 PM   #2623
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How did they know that? All they knew is that you had no Vignette on your windshield 50 km from the border. You could have just bought the sticker because you saw them checking your car in their Asfinag vests. They don't know that.
They are no police, right? Do they have any police rights? Thus what would happen if I would just refuse to talk with them. Put the sticker on and tell them to **** off.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:18 PM   #2624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
"Der Balkan fängt am Rennweg an."

Parking tickets can be bought at any cigarettes vending machine or via SMS, but I admit it is confusing for someone not from Vienna and the city is to blame for the lack of comunication.
Thanks for the tip about cigarettes vending machines, maybe if I were a smoker I had also seen that

Anyways I was not trying to be offensive, just straight forward .
I find the parking system a legal tourist trap, and the fines are also very high.

In Ingolstadt for parking without Parkuhr (I forgot to put it) on 2 hour limited space (but without having to pay), I received a 5€ fine. And for parking on "Gehsteig und Fahrradweg" allthough it was not really signed, I parked because I saw other cars too, I found a 15€ fine, the cars nearby had them too .
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:23 PM   #2625
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They are no police, right? Do they have any police rights? Thus what would happen if I would just refuse to talk with them. Put the sticker on and tell them to **** off.
And they have every right to stop you then, until the police shows up. Meaning you'll face an extra administrative fine to the € 120.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:44 PM   #2626
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And they have every right to stop you then, until the police shows up. Meaning you'll face an extra administrative fine to the € 120.
Do they have right to physically stop me? Can they use grasps to hold me? If so, then it is interesting to hear that such police rights are privatized in Austria.

Last edited by Surel; February 1st, 2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:56 PM   #2627
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Do they have right to physically stop me? Can they use grasps to hold me? If so, than it is interesting to hear that such police rights are privatized in Austria.
That the same with tickets controllers aboard trains, I can't see why are you being so aggressive. They do their job.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:15 PM   #2628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post

Do they have right to physically stop me? Can they use grasps to hold me? If so, than it is interesting to hear that such police rights are privatized in Austria.
For the very same reason every shop clerk has the right to hold on a lifter, yes.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:51 PM   #2629
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It is not that black and white whether they have the right to detain at least in the CZ, neither the train conductor nor the shop clerk. This hase to be evaluated case wise. They can ask you to wait till the police arrives. They can also document what is happening. They could detain you, but in a manner that is appropriate. Etc. Etc. Would they fight with me when I would go on doing my business?

The type and conditions of the contract that Asfinag has with the users of the sections where the vignette is required would also be important for this case.

The rights to liberty and security are indeed in question. The citizen's arrest would be possible if a crime happened, which obviously is not the case here.

If thus Asfinag employees have the right to take hold of someone and require ID it seems to me as privitazing of the police rights. Especially in this case where no harm was caused to Asfinag, thus there is no need for preventive effect.

Last edited by Surel; February 1st, 2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:54 PM   #2630
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That the same with tickets controllers aboard trains, I can't see why are you being so aggressive. They do their job.
It seems to me that they are being unreasonable and aggresive. I was just genuinely interested, what would have happened if...

PS: I wouldn´t like to live in a world where everyone would do their job as they do.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:58 PM   #2631
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:27 PM   #2632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post

It is not that black and white whether they have the right to detain at least in the CZ, neither train conductor nor shop clerk. This hase to be evaluated case wise. They can ask you to wait till the police arrives. They can also document what is happening. They could detain you, but in a manner that is appropriate. Etc. Etc. Would they fight with me when I would go on doing my business?

The type and conditions of the contract that Asfinag has with the users of the sections where the vignette is required would also be important for this case.

The rights to liberty and security are indeed in question. The citizen's arrest would be possible if a crime happened, which obviously is not the case here.

If thus Asfinag employees have the right to take hold of someone and require ID it seems to me as privitazing of the police rights. Especially in this case where no harm was caused to Asfinag, thus there is no need for preventive effect.
It is pretty black and white. They have the right to use reasonable force to prevent you from leaving, yes. Meaning they are not allowed to strike you down, but eg hold your arm until the police arrives (if you start fighting them it's just a matter of self-defense). Same applies for conductors (special case in Austria since ÖBB conductors have privileges to ensure safety onboard of every train). This is not a matter of criminal law like shoplifting, yes, but administrative penalties if you refuse to pay the toll and this is were the police comes into play. If it wasn't for administrative law, where the usage of public infrastructure without paying the required fees is fined up to € 216 or one month in jail, such cases of unjust enrichment would not justify a private person (say someone is driving on your private non-public road) to detain someone.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:39 PM   #2633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
It seems to me that they are being unreasonable and aggresive. I was just genuinely interested, what would have happened if...

PS: I wouldn´t like to live in a world where everyone would do their job as they do.
He was 50 km from the border, already passed one gas station on the S3 near Göllersdorf, has driven through some villages with gas stations, it is common knowledge that Austrian motorways require a Vignette and they hear excuses like that on a daily basis. I don't see how they did anything wrong here by fining him. He is the one who misbehaved and not them.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:40 PM   #2634
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I'm guessing this depends highly also on education. If you commit a wrong doing you have to pay the fine. Also the person who can fine you, could just let you away with a warning and you would learn from the mistake.

I find that people that can only function on rules and can't have any flexibility are just like robots, are just rigid, I don't really like these kind of people (many of those around here )

I don't like to smile and be nice, only because the company rules says that, or be just a fake guy, like many are, I do it because I am a nice person, and like to help my colleague, also don't ask anything back. If you miss me off, then you just won't get any help next times
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:42 PM   #2635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
I'm guessing this depends highly also on education. If you commit a wrong doing you have to pay the fine. Also the person who can fine you, could just let you away with a warning and you would learn from the mistake.

I find that people that can only function on rules and can't have any flexibility are just like robots, are just rigid, I don't really like these kind of people (many of those around here )
They could have let him off the hook, yes, but given the circumstances I described in the post above you, I can't blame them for not doing so.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:44 PM   #2636
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This happens many times because laws and regulations are made by stupid political people that have no idea about how to be human, and are only interested to solve problems quick and easy and to bring money...

My girlfriend is a psychiatrist, and she also has to battle with stupid regulations, one that they don't have the right to give a violent psychotic a shot to calm him down, so he could even die of heart failure because of the stress his condition brings him too (you can't imagine someone screaming without stopping an entire night). Now the idiots saw what they did and revert back to the old regulations where you can give him a shot.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 05:01 PM   #2637
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Thanks for the tip about cigarettes vending machines, maybe if I were a smoker I had also seen that

Anyways I was not trying to be offensive, just straight forward .
I find the parking system a legal tourist trap, and the fines are also very high.

In Ingolstadt for parking without Parkuhr (I forgot to put it) on 2 hour limited space (but without having to pay), I received a 5€ fine. And for parking on "Gehsteig und Fahrradweg" allthough it was not really signed, I parked because I saw other cars too, I found a 15€ fine, the cars nearby had them too .
The parking system is not aimed on tourist, but commuters and Viennese - those who actually clog the streets. Parking became quite expensive recently (€ 2/hour) and at the same time public transport became cheaper to make using your car less attractive. Low fines would contradict that purpose (moral hazard). I am actually shocked that parking on a sidewalk is only fined with € 15 in Ingolstadt. How is this supposed to prevent people from parking there and not frustrate pedestrians and cyclists?

In case you should need it in future: http://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/en/g...lang=en&bmadr=



As for your GF: Regulations regarding the working conditions of psychiatrist is hardly the same as traffic tolls. The one issue requires special knowledge, the other doesn't (do not enter motorways without paying toll).
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Old February 1st, 2013, 05:12 PM   #2638
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T I am actually shocked that parking on a sidewalk is only fined with € 15 in Ingolstadt. How is this supposed to prevent people from parking there and not frustrate pedestrians and cyclists?
Don't imagine a sidewalk there. To bad Germany has no street view. It was a parking place, that was full, but you could drive until the end of it to the building wall. This was at the same level/height all the way. People and cyclists had enough space to go around the cars parked in front of the building like that. I only stayed like 10 minutes there, had business in the building, parked only because there were other 2 cars like that. There were also no clear signs with no parking. Anyway, I won't park there again, even if only 15€

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
In case you should need it in future: http://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/en/g...lang=en&bmadr=
Danke!
I parked on Wiesberggasse, stayed at Hotel Hadrigan, on Maroltingergasse 68.
The same place I parked in June last time, with no limitations that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
As for your GF: Regulations regarding the working conditions of psychiatrist is hardly the same as traffic tolls. The one issue requires special knowledge, the other doesn't (do not enter motorways without paying toll).
You are right, it was more a forced comparison. But fact is, the regulations are made by people who only sit in the office and have no REAL knowledge about what's really going on.

Last edited by cinxxx; February 1st, 2013 at 05:18 PM.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 06:13 PM   #2639
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He was 50 km from the border, already passed one gas station on the S3 near Göllersdorf, has driven through some villages with gas stations, it is common knowledge that Austrian motorways require a Vignette and they hear excuses like that on a daily basis. I don't see how they did anything wrong here by fining him. He is the one who misbehaved and not them.
I agree.

Why is so hard to buy a Jahresvignette, as I am frequently doing for a couple of years. At least, the Austrian Jahresvignette (yearly vignette) is about 20% cheaper than the Slovenian Letna Vinjeta (yearly vignette).
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Old February 1st, 2013, 06:36 PM   #2640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
He was 50 km from the border, already passed one gas station on the S3 near Göllersdorf, has driven through some villages with gas stations, it is common knowledge that Austrian motorways require a Vignette and they hear excuses like that on a daily basis. I don't see how they did anything wrong here by fining him. He is the one who misbehaved and not them.
To reply you:

This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladjack View Post
TBut the main point is they captured me at the Cash desk, where I was buying a vignette. They kept repeating: "We know that's unfair, but that's the law."
and this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladjack View Post
Hi,
I entered Austria from the direction of Czech town Znojmo. The area around the border was quite empty, so we didn't find the place to purchase the vignette. We went on into Austria and after a brief drive on normal road (not a highway), the highway A22 started. There was big vignette sign and the Raststation right after that.
So I stopped there with the single goal to purchase the vignette. I went to the Cash desk and as I was buying viignette, an uniformed man came and took me from there.
makes me believe otherwise.

I could understand their behavioiur if they did it on the parking place when he stopped or entered the car. The fact that they did it at the cashier is self revealing. No more comments required.
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