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Old June 26th, 2013, 01:08 AM   #2981
mcarling
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Vignette could be sold the way the Korridorvignette was sold for years. Art 22 of the directive does not forbid that, as long as the general traffic flow is not affected.
It's a Regulation, not a Directive, which means that member states don't have any discretion about how to implement it. Pursuant to the Dassonville doctrine of the European Court of Justice, everything which is capable, actually or potentially, directly or indirectly, of obstructing the flow of traffic at the border is prohibited.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:05 AM   #2982
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It's a Regulation, not a Directive, which means that member states don't have any discretion about how to implement it. Pursuant to the Dassonville doctrine of the European Court of Justice, everything which is capable, actually or potentially, directly or indirectly, of obstructing the flow of traffic at the border is prohibited.
1) I am a postgrad law student, so I know the difference between a directive and a regulation.

2) Dassonville only applies on fundamental freedoms, not on secondary law.

3) Traffic flow is not affected if there are separate toll vending machines next to the main road, thus under no circumstance a contract violation.

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Old June 26th, 2013, 09:23 AM   #2983
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1) I am a postgrad law student, so I know the difference between a directive and a regulation.

2) Dassonville only applies on fundamental freedoms, not on secondary law.

3) Traffic flow is not affected if there are separate toll vending machines next to the main road, thus under no circumstance a contract violation.
1) Then you should not have written Directive. I would have given my postgrad law students a zero for that.

2) The right of EU citizens to cross internal borders is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU.

3) Vehicles departing and rejoining the main traffic flow can be an obstruction to the traffic flow. I expect the ECJ's interpretation would be toward more open rather than more restrictive borders. The vision they are pushing is that crossing an internal border should not be noticeable, except for a small sign.

Last edited by mcarling; June 26th, 2013 at 09:32 AM.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #2984
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European Union Regulation no. 562 of 2006 Article 22 requires the removal of all (or nearly all, depending on how the ECJ will interpret the Regulation) of the border crossing infrastructure at internal Schengen Area borders. The same article generally prohibits reduced speed limits at internal Schengen Area borders.
I don't think this regulation is seriously enforced.
http://maps.google.it/maps?saddr=Se%...ra=ls&t=m&z=16

Back to the vignette topic, they could install in rest areas some drive-through vending machines that dispense vignettes (paying with card, notes ad coins). It would save drivers to spend unnecessary time to park and enter the shop.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:14 PM   #2985
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3) Vehicles departing and rejoining the main traffic flow can be an obstruction to the traffic flow. I expect the ECJ's interpretation would be toward more open rather than more restrictive borders. The vision they are pushing is that crossing an internal border should not be noticeable, except for a small sign.
I doubt that ECJ would see that as a obstruction to traffic flow related with the border itself. It's plain and simple the same obstruction that comes with thousands of toll stations all over Europe - be them on/near a border or not, that does make no difference at all. And quite naturally some of those stations have to be near the border for obvious reasons. In fact in terms of land consumption and planning permissions it makes quite a lot sense to reuse areas of former border facilities.
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Last edited by thun; June 26th, 2013 at 02:19 PM.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 04:59 PM   #2986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

1) Then you should not have written Directive. I would have given my postgrad law students a zero for that.

2) The right of EU citizens to cross internal borders is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU.

3) Vehicles departing and rejoining the main traffic flow can be an obstruction to the traffic flow. I expect the ECJ's interpretation would be toward more open rather than more restrictive borders. The vision they are pushing is that crossing an internal border should not be noticeable, except for a small sign.
Ad 1) Wasn't paying attention.

Ad 2) Bollocks. It's a direct result of the Schengen Treaty not the fundamental freedoms.

Ad 3) According to your false logic, every motorway exit would then be equal to a measur having equivallent effect (which does not apply anyway). Under no circumstance would the ECJ consider a measure, that makes it easier for foreigners to buy a Vignette, a to be removed obstacle under Art 22 leg cit.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 06:03 PM   #2987
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I don't think this regulation is seriously enforced.
http://maps.google.it/maps?saddr=Se%...ra=ls&t=m&z=16
This must be one of the most ridiculous border crossings ever. Anyway, I think it's a good idea to sell vignettes at the border.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 07:29 PM   #2988
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This must be one of the most ridiculous border crossings ever. Anyway, I think it's a good idea to sell vignettes at the border.
However, I think vignettes are old-fashioned. We live in digital age. Why couldn't people order vignettes either via e-mail or SMS?
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Old June 26th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #2989
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If countries like Hungary and Romania can do it, I think Austria, SLO, CZ and SK can to
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Old June 26th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #2990
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If countries like Hungary and Romania can do it, I think Austria, SLO, CZ and SK can to
I have never been in Romania, but Hungarian system is de luxe, though the non-hungarian version of site had been out of order last time I tried. That system is also planned in Slovakia, but (at least i think) as of 2016. Hope it will be more user-friendly than today's pay toll for vehicles over 3,5t

Last edited by volodaaaa; June 26th, 2013 at 07:45 PM.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #2991
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It's also better for your windshield.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #2992
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It's also better for your windshield.
Especially if every country has its own regulations. Then I have austrian vignette on right side of my windscreen, slovakian on left, bulgarian beneath my interior rear mirror, etc.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 07:45 PM   #2993
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Why not introduce the Sondermaut system for Kufstein and Bregenz, like someone already proposed?
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Old June 26th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #2994
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I have never been in Romania, but Hungarian system is de luxe, though the non-hungarian version of site had been out of order last time I tried. That system is also planned in Slovakia, but (at least i think) as of 2016. Hope it will be more user-friendly than today's pay toll for vehicles over 3,5t
The RO vignette is digital like the HU one.
You can buy it at gas station only by giving your license plate and period of time vignette or online the same way. The last 2 times I drove home I always bought it online, for HU also.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #2995
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Why not introduce the Sondermaut system for Kufstein and Bregenz, like someone already proposed?
That would make things even worse. Many drivers who already purchased a vignette would come off the motorway then because they do not want to pay the supplement.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 09:20 PM   #2996
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These people should not have to pay it maybe
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Old June 27th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #2997
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These people should not have to pay it maybe
So we are back at the Korridorvignette .
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Old June 27th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #2998
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And it still makes more sense.
But we will see soon I guess
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Old June 27th, 2013, 11:20 PM   #2999
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We'll see how how often Bregenz will be gridlocked before they change their laws to refinance the fancy new tunnel.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #3000
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We'll see how how often Bregenz will be gridlocked before they change their laws to refinance the fancy new tunnel.
The problem is that the federal government in Vienna most often couldn't care less about a traffic problem on the westernmost tip of Austria... Furthermore, if Asfinag has enough income to pay a 100,000,000 EUR dividend to its only shareholder, the Republic of Austria, a loss of income of 414,000 EUR per year should be manageable (Asfinag calculated that with everything included, i.e., people who paid a 10-day-vignette before and now pay only a Korridorvignette, and additional income by new customers generated by the corridor vignette, the income decrease per Korridorvignette sold is 0.37 EUR. At 5.6 million sales in five years, or 1.12 million sales per year, that amounts to the quoted 414,000 EUR/year).
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