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Old June 28th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #3001
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This just furthers the case for an European-wide toll/road fee/vignette electronic collection system that is fully interoperable and allows you to pay whatever you have to pay without having to stop at physical toll plazas (which are very expensive to deploy, just look at Italy) or stick things in your windshield.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #3002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
The problem is that the federal government in Vienna most often couldn't care less about a traffic problem on the westernmost tip of Austria... Furthermore, if Asfinag has enough income to pay a 100,000,000 EUR dividend to its only shareholder, the Republic of Austria, a loss of income of 414,000 EUR per year should be manageable (Asfinag calculated that with everything included, i.e., people who paid a 10-day-vignette before and now pay only a Korridorvignette, and additional income by new customers generated by the corridor vignette, the income decrease per Korridorvignette sold is 0.37 EUR. At 5.6 million sales in five years, or 1.12 million sales per year, that amounts to the quoted 414,000 EUR/year).
This is not about a loss of income, but the fact that ASFINAG is not willing to grant special treatment to anybody. You can't say yes to the people of Bregenz, but no the the ones around Graz:

http://steiermark.orf.at/news/stories/2590420/
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Old June 28th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #3003
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So ASFINAG refuses to listen to what the people want...
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Old June 28th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #3004
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So ASFINAG refuses to listen to what the people want...
We would not be having one single Kilometer of Autobahn if they would do that in any case.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #3005
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A vignette is by far most advantageous to "the people". If you had regular tolls like France or Italy, you pay the price of an annual vignette by driving from Wien to Salzburg and back two times per year.

The 10-day vignette is also not outrageously expensive. What's € 8.50? In France you pay that kind of money for driving 80 kilometers on an Autoroute, in Austria you have unlimited mileage. I agree that € 8.50 for driving 2 x 6 kilometers on A12 near Kufstein is not value for money, but if you are too cheap to purchase a vignette of € 8.50 on your annual ski trip to Kitzbühel you maybe shouldn't go at all.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #3006
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I didn't say it's expensive, it's ok.

But I remember when I drove from Switzerland I didn't even buy the Korridorvignette, drove through Bregenz. I hate applying stickers for under an hour drive. It would be great to make the sticker digital, and to be able to buy it online. Those stupid stickers are not always easy to get off. And if traveling in Austria, SLO, CZ, SK in one week, you fill your windshield.

In some countries though ring roads of big cities are untolled.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 04:57 PM   #3007
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Technically you're right. However there are plenty of transit routes and access routes to ski resorts where 8,50€ is too expensive so that a lot of people decide to use the federal road instead because you actually don't loose too much time. Especially in the case of the ski resorts it's a lot of Bavarians doing day trips (probably much more than those going to Kitzbühel or so for a whole week), they don't buy a 10-day vignette if they need it only for one day as they think of it as a ripoff.
Lindau-St. Margareten, Fernpass-Reschenpass through Landeck, Fernpass-Paznaun, Fernpass/Zirler Berg-Ötztal just to mention a few.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #3008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
This is not about a loss of income, but the fact that ASFINAG is not willing to grant special treatment to anybody. You can't say yes to the people of Bregenz, but no the the ones around Graz:
thats also one more reason because the "Korridorivgnette" will not be kept for Bregenz - even when some people think it may be necessary - because the asfinag don´t want to give an example to others
(so written in the newspaper)
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:38 PM   #3009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Energy2003 View Post
thats also one more reason because the "Korridorivgnette" will not be kept for Bregenz - even when some people think it may be necessary - because the asfinag don´t want to give an example to others
(so written in the newspaper)
IMHO there are three stretches in Austria where a similar concept to the Korridorvignette should apply: A14 border Hörbranz -> Hohenems; A12 border Kufstein -> Kufstein-Süd; A12 Oberinntal jct -> Fließ (Tunnel Landeck). These are the three stretches where a short motorway section is on an important long-distance relation (Munich -> Zurich and Ulm -> Milan; Munich -> Kitzbühel, important in winter tourism; and Ulm -> Fernpass -> Reschenpass -> Bozen).

The situation in Graz is completely different: that's commuter traffic rather than one-off holiday drivers.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #3010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
This is not about a loss of income, but the fact that ASFINAG is not willing to grant special treatment to anybody. You can't say yes to the people of Bregenz, but no the the ones around Graz:

http://steiermark.orf.at/news/stories/2590420/
If there is "vignette" system implemented on the motorway, it is always similar story. In Austria are (almost) all "A" and "S" roads tolled without expection (unfinished S5 near Krems, former S33=nowadays B37 in Krems...). And they try to keep it on. Nevertheless the Korridorvignette in Vorarlberg had been implemented once and it has worked quite succesfully. The argumentation with the completed tunnel..it is weird.

Comparing with the CZ, there were usually all urban motorway sections (in Praha, Brno, Ostrava...) free of charge (for cars). Nowadays those toll exceptions have been significantly reduced.....And sure, there are discussions back again.

A2 and A9 could be toll-free in Graz. After that same exception for A22,A23,S2, A4, A2...in Wien, A10 and A1 in Salzburg, A12 and A13 in Innsbruck, A7 in Linz, A1+S33 in Sankt Pölten.....That is the point.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #3011
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A14 Pfänder Tunnel, Bregenz

The second tube of the Pfänder Tunnel at Bregenz (6.7 km) opened to traffic today. Full 2x2 capacity is now available in the busiest road tunnel of the Alps. The traffic volume is 30.000 vehicles per day.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #3012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Full 2x2 capacity is now available in the busiest road tunnel of the Alps.
Maybe of longer tunnels. Trojane (~3 km) is busier (but there're busier tunnels).
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:24 PM   #3013
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How much does the Gotthard Tunnel carry?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:37 PM   #3014
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17.000 on average.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #3015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The second tube of the Pfänder Tunnel at Bregenz (6.7 km) opened to traffic today. Full 2x2 capacity is now available in the busiest road tunnel of the Alps. The traffic volume is 30.000 vehicles per day.
Dodes that mean that 2 weeks ago I passed through new tube while the old one was under reconstruction?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #3016
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Yes, that's right.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #3017
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As far I know the Seelisberg (9 km) reaches 40.000 but I'm not sure. Then there are tunnels around cities located in the Alps with even higher traffic (don't forget that not only the peaks above 3.000 metres are part of the Alps, but also the lower ones around for instance Como and Lucerne).
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Old July 4th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #3018
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As far I know the Seelisberg (9 km) reaches 40.000 but I'm not sure.
I don't think so. There are no large cities between the Seelisberg Tunnel and Gotthard Tunnel that would genererate/absorb the difference between 17.000 at the Gotthard and 40.000 at the Seelisberg. I think the Seelisberg Tunnel is in the 20.000 - 25.000 range.

Quote:
Then there are tunnels around cities located in the Alps with even higher traffic (don't forget that not only the peaks above 3.000 metres are part of the Alps, but also the lower ones around for instance Como and Lucerne).
I mean those that cross one of the main chains of the Alps. Often the Belchen Tunnel (A2, Switzerland) is quoted as the busiest tunnel in the Alps, but it actually runs through the Jura.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #3019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
don't forget that not only the peaks above 3.000 metres are part of the Alps
The hill over the Pfänder Tunnel doesn't even reach 800 m though. (I mean where the tunnel crosses it, otherwise Pfänder reaches 1,064 m)
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Old July 4th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #3020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't think so. There are no large cities between the Seelisberg Tunnel and Gotthard Tunnel that would genererate/absorb the difference between 17.000 at the Gotthard and 40.000 at the Seelisberg. I think the Seelisberg Tunnel is in the 20.000 - 25.000 range.
Yes, according to that is around 20.000. I got confused because the ~40.000 vehicles a day are at the junction A2-A8, on the southern branch of the A2.

The A3 around the Walensee is at around 33.000, but the 6 km Kerenzertunnel is on one carriageway only.

The short tunnels around Lausanne, Lucerne and Lugano are between 60.000 and 70.000.
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