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Old September 1st, 2013, 06:07 PM   #3101
Wilhem275
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What are the current plans for the Fernpass route?

As of today:
- modern standard from the D border to the Weißensee
- old mountain pass
- proper bypass of the village of Nassereith
- a modernized mountain stretch down to A12, but still not that great.

Now I understand that plans for a complete motorway link have been scrapped due to high costs, but is anyone considering to just solve the substandard parts and give a uniform standard to B179?



They would be a 6 and a 4 km segments, partly with tunnels, not different from other tunnels already built on B179. Not a big deal for an alpine route.

Of course this would be a Vignette route, as B179 already is (or is no more?).


I see a new bypass was built in the city of Telfs, from A12 to B189, to cut off the city center. Would you suggest it as a better way than via Mötz?
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 01:14 PM   #3102
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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Of course this would be a Vignette route, as B179 already is (or is no more?).
You do not need a vignette for B179, and never needed one (only A- and S-designated roads require a vignette). The Southern section of your proposal went into the planning stadium several years ago (A12 Tschirganttunnel, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschirganttunnel) but the plans were scrapped again in 2013.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 02:36 PM   #3103
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What a pity. That part is more useful to relieve traffic from town, while the tunnel under the pass would really improve the flow, and set free a great panoramic road.

About the vignette: I remember, maybe in 2011, some signs on access ramps of B179, about the vignette, but I'm not sure they meant it was needed.

Was -maybe- the modern part of B179 classified as "S179", thus needing the vignette? I vaguely remember something like that...
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 07:33 PM   #3104
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at Wikipedia i have seen mentioning HOV lanes in Linz in lenght of 3 km. where it is?
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 08:25 PM   #3105
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That is B127 between Puchenau and Linz. The bus lane is also open to cars with 3 or more occupants.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #3106
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S10 Tunnel Götschka

The breakthrough of the second tube of the Götschka Tunnel north of Linz has been achieved at 12.35 hrs today. The 4.4 kilometer tunnel is part of the new S10 expressway. It took 504 days to bore the tunnel. 550 000 cubic meters of earth and rock was excavated. The main task of the tunnel is to allow traffic a less steep grade. The height difference between the two portals is circa 150 meters.

The new expressway from Unterweitersdorf to Freistadt will open late 2014.

location at OSM:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=4...8.3871/14.4859
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Old September 5th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #3107
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S7 Fürstenfelder Schnellstraße

Construction on the western segment of S7 (Riegersdorf - Dobersdorf) begins soon.

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Old September 6th, 2013, 03:52 AM   #3108
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Tauern motorway A10 towards Villach



A10>A2>A23

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Old September 7th, 2013, 08:40 PM   #3109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
You do not need a vignette for B179, and never needed one (only A- and S-designated roads require a vignette). The Southern section of your proposal went into the planning stadium several years ago (A12 Tschirganttunnel, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschirganttunnel) but the plans were scrapped again in 2013.
The linked newspaper article is no longer available, but it said that the 200 million € tunnel would not solve the problem caused by summer and winter vacation traffic because the tunnel cannot be used as "parking area".

Quote:
Da ein Tunnel auch nicht als Parkfläche zur Verfügung steht, löst er das eigentliche Problem beim Urlauberschichtwechsel im Sommer und Winter nicht.
A Fernpass peak tunnel would also be ineffective.

I think in conclusion only an entire 2x2 road b/n A7.de and A12.at could improve the situation. But this will never be built!
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Old September 7th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #3110
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I think in conclusion only an entire 2x2 road b/n A7.de and A12.at could improve the situation. But this will never be built!
Right. The question is, is this really necessary? I know the Fernpass stretch has its traffic jams on holiday week-ends, but how is the situation on a normal day, what is the yearly ADT? If the situation is like, say, on S16 between Bludenz and Dalaas, with extreme holiday peaks but a low AADT level of 10,000 or 12,000 cars/24 hours, it does not make sense to invest the money into a 2x2 roadway. In the end, you can never afford to design the road infrastructure to peak loads which only occur on 5 or 10 days a year.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #3111
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http://www.tirol.gv.at/fileadmin/www...1_Internet.pdf

Pages 6 to 9 show the traffic situation on the Fernpass road. In 2011, a total of 232 hours of congestion were measured (average speed lower than 30 kph). This corresponds to 2.65% of the time.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #3112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
http://www.tirol.gv.at/fileadmin/www...1_Internet.pdf

Pages 6 to 9 show the traffic situation on the Fernpass road. In 2011, a total of 232 hours of congestion were measured (average speed lower than 30 kph). This corresponds to 2.65% of the time.
That was the year when they were doing major roadworks. There are still some ongoing just before Reutte.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 08:47 AM   #3113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The linked newspaper article is no longer available, but it said that the 200 million € tunnel would not solve the problem caused by summer and winter vacation traffic because the tunnel cannot be used as "parking area".

A Fernpass peak tunnel would also be ineffective.
I don't understand these two points. My idea is that if the rest of the A12-A7 corridor had been upgraded (all modern parts of B179/189) then there's no point in keeping two black spots. It's clear that those two points are the corridor's bottlenecks, and that a couple of tunnels would bring the whole road to the same standard (= free flow).

Actually I wouldn't concentrate on the congestion levels during peak times, but on the pontential of the road: if we just look at queues generated by local tourism the road is just the same as many other alpine roads, not worth any upgrade.
To me the Fernpass is an incredibly underrated major route for EU traffic, and investments should be planned under this light. Gosh, with just a few improvements it would easily be the best connection between Italy's main node (Bologna) and everything up to Hannover through A7...

It's stuck in a perversed standoff: if it doesn't get improvements, it won't be considered a major route; but if it isn't considered a major route, it won't be considered worth any improvement...

I understand building a full 2x2 is a heavy issue - too heavy. But with two relatively cheap works we would get out of this standoff...
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Old September 8th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #3114
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What a pity. That part is more useful to relieve traffic from town, while the tunnel under the pass would really improve the flow, and set free a great panoramic road.
The Fernpass isn't that much a panoramic road.

Quote:
About the vignette: I remember, maybe in 2011, some signs on access ramps of B179, about the vignette, but I'm not sure they meant it was needed.
Those signs (on every access on the grade-separated part of B179 from the border to Reutte) indicate that you don't need a vignette

Quote:
Was -maybe- the modern part of B179 classified as "S179", thus needing the vignette? I vaguely remember something like that...
It never required a vignette.

There are proposals for a Gartnerwandtunnel (between Bichlbach and Nassereith) which would effectively separate traffic from Reutte/German A7 from that from Munich/Garmisch. Upgrating the Fernpass is a delicate issue, though, as the Alpine convention does not allow for new transit corridors - the question is basically, if a B(then S)179 with two long tunnels would be a mere upgrate or indeed create a lot of additional traffic (which in a large share would flow to the Reschen route as well) which nobody in the region really wants to have there (the Zwischentoren region between Reutte and Fernpass is an important tourism region that could suffer). Nevertheless, limitations on lorry traffic wouldn't be lifted anyway, iirc.
The real bottlenecks (in peak times) are the two tunnels (Grenztunnel on the northern side and Lermooser tunnel) where a Blockabfertigung has to put on regularly. If you add two more long tunnels that certainly won't solve this issue, it might even make it worse as there are then (up to) four Blockabfertigungen.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #3115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
I don't understand these two points.
I have only quoted the newspaper article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
To me the Fernpass is an incredibly underrated major route for EU traffic, and investments should be planned under this light.
That's the "main problem". Tyrol is fighting against getting major routes since decades.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #3116
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Tyrol has its major routes from Kufstein to Felbertauern, Brenner, Reutte, Garmisch and Arlberg. We've also got these things called mountains...
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Old September 9th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #3117
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We've also got these things called mountains.
That's what tunnels are for.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #3118
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Ok, you go and dig them. The locals are mobile enough, and the infrastructure is more than adequate.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #3119
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Ok, you go and dig them. The locals are mobile enough, and the infrastructure is more than adequate.
Ok. You organise agreement from the locals, then we'll see about digging the tunnels. First things first.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #3120
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Ok, you go and dig them. The locals are mobile enough, and the infrastructure is more than adequate.
Long live the EU, with that attitude.
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