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Old December 2nd, 2013, 08:44 AM   #3241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Is this based on citizenship or residence? If only residents of Germany are taxed, regardless of citizenship, then that's legal. However, if only German citizens are taxed, regardless of residency, then that's illegal discrimination.
Discrimination of nationals is no EU law matter. Not even under German law (Reinheitsgebot case; lifted by the ECJ, confirmed for German Beermakers by the Constitutional Court) in contrast to Austrian law.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:15 AM   #3242
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang16 View Post
Situation at the moment is that everybody can drive for free on German roads except Germans who have to pay a road tax.

Is this discrimination or not?
I'm not aware of any "road tax" I'm supposed to pay. Where would that be hidden ?
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:19 AM   #3243
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This is no place for semi-intelligent populism. Go to one of the Skybars or DLM, if you want to argue at such a level.
Something tells me you're not a Kronezeitung reader. Good on you. However, I think it's good that people question the EU and their policies.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:50 AM   #3244
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This is no place for semi-intelligent populism. Go to one of the Skybars or DLM, if you want to argue at such a level.
Populism is exactly what German politicians do. Anyway, if the proposed toll would be 100 €, I would be really curious, how will respective office deal with compensating this toll in case of car owners who pay road tax in amount lower than 100 € e.g. 30 €. Or rather in case of car owners who do not use motorways at all and do not need to pay toll. Would Germany pay this driver back? It is discrimination even at level of German drivers and I doubt it can be profitable at all.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 11:53 AM   #3245
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Something tells me you're not a Kronezeitung reader. Good on you. However, I think it's good that people question the EU and their policies.
You're guessing right and I agree with you. People should question the EU, but in an objective way. This is only done by a tiny margin of every member state's population and it really bothers me. One is fighting windmills if you're not jumping on the EU = bad bandwagon.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 11:58 AM   #3246
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There is no such thing as a road tax in Germany. What most of us do pay are a vehicle tax and taxes on fuel among many other taxes and duties.
Which is actually just the same kind of fish. KFZ-Steuer is paid to use public roads ergo a road tax.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 08:58 PM   #3247
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:31 PM   #3248
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B20 road in Mariazell/St.Sebestian:













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Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:46 PM   #3249
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Populism is exactly what German politicians do. Anyway, if the proposed toll would be 100 €, I would be really curious, how will respective office deal with compensating this toll in case of car owners who pay road tax in amount lower than 100 € e.g. 30 €. Or rather in case of car owners who do not use motorways at all and do not need to pay toll. Would Germany pay this driver back? It is discrimination even at level of German drivers and I doubt it can be profitable at all.
You can always introduce a negative tax - i.e. subsidize the small autos. Actually it would make much sense in relation to the tax structure of the vehicles that have smaller consumption of the fossil fuels.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:48 AM   #3250
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The thread is Austrian motorways and my only intention was to point out that Austria should develop it's network because when I asked if there were plans to connect the country with a motorway throughout I was told it wasn't necessary because anyone could use the infrastructure of neighbouring countries (although in the case of south Austria there is no alternative in Italy, there are no latitude motorways there either). I guess the lively discussion proves the matter is not simple at all.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 02:07 AM   #3251
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A long-term economical agreement with neighbouring countries is probably much cheaper (and system-efficient) than building a full network of parallel infrastructures... Dammit, borders are just a virtual limit, we must be really stupid to double roads due to a line which exists just in our minds.

A simple idea: if Austria pays for the maintenance of A8 (up to Rosenheim) and A93, or at least for a part of it, would Bavarians have less hatred about this whole situation?

I think borders are a thing of the past, especially in those parts of EU where similar cultures meet; but sharing a culture and a land must also include sharing its costs.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 02:27 AM   #3252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Which is actually just the same kind of fish. KFZ-Steuer is paid to use public roads ergo a road tax.
No, it might be road related. Yet, it isn't a road tax. Kfz-Steuer is a duty on the registration of a motorised vehicle, not of the usage of a public road.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 03:06 AM   #3253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
A long-term economical agreement with neighbouring countries is probably much cheaper (and system-efficient) than building a full network of parallel infrastructures... Dammit, borders are just a virtual limit, we must be really stupid to double roads due to a line which exists just in our minds.

A simple idea: if Austria pays for the maintenance of A8 (up to Rosenheim) and A93, or at least for a part of it, would Bavarians have less hatred about this whole situation?

I think borders are a thing of the past, especially in those parts of EU where similar cultures meet; but sharing a culture and a land must also include sharing its costs.
"A long-term economical agreement" like the EU? ;-)
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 03:47 AM   #3254
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Well, a bit more focused on specific projects :-D
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 09:03 AM   #3255
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Quote:
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A simple idea: if Austria pays for the maintenance of A8 (up to Rosenheim) and A93, or at least for a part of it, would Bavarians have less hatred about this whole situation?
There's no hatred between Bavaria and Austria. We are essentially the same people. The real, underlying problem is that there's a growing independence movement in Bavaria. It's always been there and for decades the CSU has "controlled" more radical impulses by playing themselves off as the guardians of all that is Bavarian. Seehofer's play for toll roads is yet another attempt to appear as the steward of Bavarian interests. The people on the ground are just sick of having to pay wherever they go on vacation. They see it works for those countries and say, "hey, we pay everywhere, shouldn't they pay for our roads as well ?" The REAL solution would be to abolish toll roads everywhere in the EU. Now that's something I would like to see.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 09:41 AM   #3256
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No, you're not the same people. If anything else, Tirol has the most in common with Bavaria. But with the Austrian German/Slavic mishmash, it'd be unfair to compare Bavaria with the rest of Austria. Lower-Saxony has most in common with the Netherlands.
Either way, the Austrian doesn't like the "Deitsche" and the German doesn't like the Össie. That is the one thing I've noticed since I moved here.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 09:49 AM   #3257
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After one year of construction works the modernisation of the Knoten Graz-Ost (A2) was finally completed.

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Neuer Knoten Graz-Ost feierlich eröffnet

Nach einem Jahr Bauzeit ist Montagvormittag der neue Autobahn-Knoten Graz-Ost auf der A2 der Südautobahn, feierlich für den Verkehr freigegeben worden. Der Knoten wurde zu einem Vollanschluss ausgebaut.



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Old December 3rd, 2013, 10:53 AM   #3258
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Quote:
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Either way, the Austrian doesn't like the "Deitsche" and the German doesn't like the Össie. That is the one thing I've noticed since I moved here.
It's much more compley than that Bavarians aren't Germans. Bavarians don't like Preiss'n and Ossies are the worst of Preiss'n-dom.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 11:04 AM   #3259
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One possible solution for the German part of Salzburg - Innsbruck motorway (A8 + A93) if the German motorway vignette will be applied: split the maintenance costs between Austria and Germany (half-half or something like that) for this 2 motorway sections, and permit the cars to cross this section if they have German vignette or Austrian vignette.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 11:13 AM   #3260
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One possible solution for the German part of Salzburg - Innsbruck motorway (A8 + A93) if the German motorway vignette will be applied: split the maintenance costs between Austria and Germany (half-half or something like that) for this 2 motorway sections, and permit the cars to cross this section if they have German vignette or Austrian vignette.
Yeah, or the Austrians just pay for that damn vignette. It's not like they're poor or anything, and the Germans have to pay as well to use the Austrian network.
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