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Old August 11th, 2016, 01:33 PM   #4161
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Originally Posted by rudiwien View Post
There was a fire in a Danish bus-rebuilt-to-an-RV yesterday ~18.00 in the Gleinalmtunnel between Graz and St. Michael.
Luckily no victims, just minor smoke inhalation for ~12 people.

The serious side-effect - the roof of the tunnel seems to be severely damaged. They can't yet get fully assess it, as the concrete is still too hot, but the early estimations are a 4-6 weeks closure of the tunnel.

This leads already to huge traffic delays on the alternative route, which is S35 to Bruck, and then S6 to St. Michael. There is a construction site on S6 which reduces it to 1+1, delays are in the range of 1-2 hours, depending on where you go, see https://goo.gl/maps/rScC6RhSMc72 and https://goo.gl/maps/AH3C97nqVk42 (Google doesn't yet know about the closure of the tunnel, it tries to route you through...)

From Graz on S35, the traffic jam forms before the Bruck/Mur interchange (https://www.google.at/maps/@47.40551...!3m1!1e3?hl=de), which has one lane connecting to S6 westbound; on S6 the delay is before the beginning of that construction site.

Asfinag announced they would improve/suspend the construction site while the tunnel is closed, still the Bruck/Mur interchange can be an issue, as it has only one lane for this S6<->S35 relation.

News article in German: http://steiermark.orf.at/news/stories/2789423/


Asfinag news entry suggest to detour also via A2 and A10.
now it is clear, closed for about 4 weeks until beginning of september, seems not so much is damaged because this was the shortest predicted time

first it was needed to wait to cool down, then take all demolished parts out and see how much have to be reconstructed
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Old August 11th, 2016, 03:09 PM   #4162
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I have a few images from the construction of the A5 from Schrick towards Poysdorf/Poysbrunn. As a reminder, deadline for finishing this section, which is divided into 4 lots, is end of 2017 (details on the ASFINAG page at http://www.asfinag.at/unterwegs/baup...ei-drasenhofen).

Due to a closure of the end of the current A5 / beginning of B7, due to a severe accident with a truck that was seemingly difficult to get back on the road (the closure lastet at least 10 hours), I went a slightly different route through various villages in the Weinviertel to avoid the queues, and thus have a few alternative pictures; unfortunately, due to the delay, I had no time to stop, so the pictures are all taken while driving, unfortunately it rained a bit.

1. Bridge construction over the L35 west of Wilfersdorf, at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.57595/16.62513, already at a quite advanced state.





2. Crossing of the A5 with the L3502 north of Walterskirchen, at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/48.6739/16.6760, still very early stage - this lot was only started a few months ago, while others are worked on since last year/early this year, so there is just a temporary diversion built, and little excavation going on. As far as I know, the A5 will be lower here, so the L3502 will be on a bridge, but at "level ground":





3. Finally next to the future end of the motorway, parallel to the current B7, the Poysbrunn node at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/48.7090/16.6572, early scraping works and first excavations have been done.





A small add-on, not motorway, but a major bypass road that has opened end of last year - the Mistelbach bypass B40/B46, here the B40 section coming from the village of Paasdorf, which also got a bypass, at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/48.55400/16.55912



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Old August 14th, 2016, 08:42 PM   #4163
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Why does A3 not have a complete interchange with A2?
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Old August 14th, 2016, 10:49 PM   #4164
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There's not a lot of traffic comming from A2 south and heading to A3. And if there it is, they can use S4 or B210.
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Old August 14th, 2016, 11:57 PM   #4165
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Yes, A3 is mostly connected to/from Vienna. Initially A3 was suposed to connect to A23 in Vienna, but then that was cancelled, and they chose to connect it to A2.

If you really want to go from A2 northbound -> A3, or from A3 -> A2 southbound, you can do that via the rest area at the Guntramsdorf interchange, e.g. as seen here: https://goo.gl/maps/cfcms2uC6j32

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Old August 15th, 2016, 01:43 PM   #4166
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Is there any plans to build direct link A2>A23? I think it`s shuoldn`t expensive :

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Old August 15th, 2016, 02:28 PM   #4167
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Is there any plans to build direct link A2>A23? I think it`s shuoldn`t expensive :
no because nobody need it and build a cheap connection costs also, addionally the fourth wont be so cheap A3>A2 south

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Why does A3 not have a complete interchange with A2?
not needed, if you take a map and zoom out you can see a shortcut south that this direction will be a big detour

in upper austria there is a full interchange that nobody use ( 2 connections)

https://www.google.at/maps/dir/48.17...2,13.17z?hl=de
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Old August 15th, 2016, 06:53 PM   #4168
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That is done in case the 2 tunnels on A8 are closed for whatever reason, so that the detour will be full motorway.
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Old August 15th, 2016, 06:59 PM   #4169
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Full interchanges are better for redundancy. They recently completed two new connector roads on an interchange in the Netherlands whose main purpose is to handle traffic in case another motorway is closed. The cost-benefit ratio can't be too favorable for those types of projects.
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Old August 15th, 2016, 08:27 PM   #4170
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in upper austria there is a full interchange that nobody use ( 2 connections)
I'm old enough to remember when A8 through Wels has not been constructed yet and from Passau to Voralpenkreuz (and so to Southern Europe) you had to drive via Knoten Haid (A25 - A1) or through some villages using a third class narrow road. Haid was planned and constructed to be able to carry that traffic.
For more than ten years it is needless but has not been demolished.
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Old August 15th, 2016, 08:43 PM   #4171
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I'm old enough to remember when A8 through Wels has not been constructed yet and from Passau to Voralpenkreuz (and so to Southern Europe) you had to drive via Knoten Haid (A25 - A1) or through some villages using a third class narrow road. Haid was planned and constructed to be able to carry that traffic.
For more than ten years it is needless but has not been demolished.
you are wrong, when the section of A8 Wels-West to Sattledt is closed the complete traffic run from Wels-North over the B137 and B138 to Sattledt, in the City Area is 2+2 with traffic lights and the south part is a street straight and with good standard, this is also the standard route which drivers use if the A8 is closed
https://www.google.at/maps/dir/48.18...273e92!1m0!3e0

what you maybe remember is the Area south where the A9 was long time not finished, there you have to drive up and down and threw small villages, curves around mountains, for expample in the Sankt Pankratz area, there is a big hill, in winter it always caused a lot of problems with stucked trucks, as a solution there was built a piece of the motorway with an temporary end to get this problem away, the tempory end was opend 1997, the funny thing is google pictures are quite old i think 2002 or 2003, the following section is under construction:
https://www.google.at/maps/@47.76179.../data=!3m1!1e3

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Old August 16th, 2016, 12:44 AM   #4172
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you are wrong, when the section of A8 Wels-West to Sattledt is closed the complete traffic run from Wels-North over the B137 and B138 to Sattledt, in the City Area is 2+2 with traffic lights and the south part is a street straight and with good standard, this is also the standard route which drivers use if the A8 is closed
https://www.google.at/maps/dir/48.18...273e92!1m0!3e0

what you maybe remember is the Area south where the A9 was long time not finished, there you have to drive up and down and threw small villages, curves around mountains, for expample in the Sankt Pankratz area, there is a big hill, in winter it always caused a lot of problems with stucked trucks, as a solution there was built a piece of the motorway with an temporary end to get this problem away, the tempory end was opend 1997, the funny thing is google pictures are quite old i think 2002 or 2003, the following section is under construction:
https://www.google.at/maps/@47.76179.../data=!3m1!1e3

I don't dare to judge what exactly Attus is remembering, but A8 around Wels to Voralpenkreuz/Sattledt was only finished around the year ~2002 or 2003, so it is very likely that he used to go through small villages from A8 to A9. Also the route you showed, while 2+2 in Wels, afterwards is a 1+1 and crosses e.g. Sattledt, and a few other smaller settlements.

I would assume that initially A8 wasn't planned like that, because otherwise they would have likely not given the A8 a different number from the A9, while it is a direct prolongation of it.
[Knoten Voralpenkreuz is funny in that regard as it connects three "different" motorways (A1, A8, A9) with just a modified cloverleaf :-) ]
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Old August 16th, 2016, 04:45 AM   #4173
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I would assume that initially A8 wasn't planned like that, because otherwise they would have likely not given the A8 a different number from the A9, while it is a direct prolongation of it.
[Knoten Voralpenkreuz is funny in that regard as it connects three "different" motorways (A1, A8, A9) with just a modified cloverleaf :-) ]
This has always bothered me. I think the A8 between Knoten Wels and Knoten Voralpenkreuz should be renamed A9, and the A25 should be renamed A8. Would also reflect the most important direction of traffic. Plus I really don't like TOTSO's.
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Old August 16th, 2016, 10:15 AM   #4174
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Originally Posted by rudiwien View Post
I don't dare to judge what exactly Attus is remembering, but A8 around Wels to Voralpenkreuz/Sattledt was only finished around the year ~2002 or 2003, so it is very likely that he used to go through small villages from A8 to A9. Also the route you showed, while 2+2 in Wels, afterwards is a 1+1 and crosses e.g. Sattledt, and a few other smaller settlements.

I would assume that initially A8 wasn't planned like that, because otherwise they would have likely not given the A8 a different number from the A9, while it is a direct prolongation of it.
[Knoten Voralpenkreuz is funny in that regard as it connects three "different" motorways (A1, A8, A9) with just a modified cloverleaf :-) ]
A1/A8/A9 was planed like this since the beginning of motorways, the interchange was projected on this place since 1930s, not used until 1990 the A9 was connected and 2003 the A8

the naming principle is the same like on the old roads, the splitting roads start at the main road, is the same which is used with B1-B137-B138 where is the same funny situation you drive on a road and across a junction and then the name changes, both starts at the B1, one in direction south, the other in direction north
https://www.google.at/maps/dir/48.16....013718,13.75z

i also preffer a renaming, but this is not so easy, because both have the 0 km at sattledt, means that you have change the complete km-signs at both motorways because they getting longer at the start

add: same naming principle A2-A10-A11, what i really hate is the modern crazy naming in upper austria A7 and the next piece without a reason is named S10
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Old August 16th, 2016, 11:54 AM   #4175
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This has always bothered me. I think the A8 between Knoten Wels and Knoten Voralpenkreuz should be renamed A9, and the A25 should be renamed A8. Would also reflect the most important direction of traffic. Plus I really don't like TOTSO's.

The A25 is also peculiar in that regard that it was initially called "Linzer Autobahn" - until it was decided to build a short kind-of tAutobahn in the western part of Linz, most of it in a tunnel, with a new bridge over the Danube. That one is now called "Linzer Autobahn", and is (will be) labelled A26; quite an impressive project, see e.g. http://www.asfinag.at/unterwegs/baup...lle-donau-nord, http://www.asfinag.at/a-26-linzer-autobahn or https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linzer_Autobahn

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A1/A8/A9 was planed like this since the beginning of motorways, the interchange was projected on this place since 1930s, not used until 1990 the A9 was connected and 2003 the A8

the naming principle is the same like on the old roads, the splitting roads start at the main road, is the same which is used with B1-B137-B138 where is the same funny situation you drive on a road and across a junction and then the name changes, both starts at the B1, one in direction south, the other in direction north
https://www.google.at/maps/dir/48.16....013718,13.75z

i also preffer a renaming, but this is not so easy, because both have the 0 km at sattledt, means that you have change the complete km-signs at both motorways because they getting longer at the start

add: same naming principle A2-A10-A11, what i really hate is the modern crazy naming in upper austria A7 and the next piece without a reason is named S10

Yes, the A7 / S10 is a really stupid thing indeed..

Similar in Vienna, you have the A23, and then the newer piece that opened ~7 years ago is named S2, it is just 7km long before it turns in the S1, which eventually will connect to the existing piece of S1 at Schwechat. And when that connection is done, a small part of the road that is now S2 will be renamed to S1 ...

And then further down the road of S1 in the section from Schwechat on, you are at the Knoten Vösendorf and driving straing on S1 interconnects with the much older A21..

So for whatever political reasons it's not cool anymore to call new Autobahns by that name anymore (well, with the exception of the A5, and the A26!), but they name it a Schnellstraße, and with that, there is a lot of really confusing interchanges where for no obvious reasons the road number changes...
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Old August 16th, 2016, 01:41 PM   #4176
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I have red somewhere that Austrian authorities prefer S-roads over A-roads because the environmental specifications are more relaxed for S-roads and therefore easier to get all the approvals, and easier to build. Maybe thats the reason why they decided to name it S10. So basically, its burocracy.
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Old August 16th, 2016, 01:55 PM   #4177
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I have red somewhere that Austrian authorities prefer S-roads over A-roads because the environmental specifications are more relaxed for S-roads and therefore easier to get all the approvals, and easier to build. Maybe thats the reason why they decided to name it S10. So basically, its burocracy.
What are the differences in technical parameters? I haven't noticed any, comparing S6 to A2 or S1 to A5.
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Old August 16th, 2016, 03:01 PM   #4178
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I have red somewhere that Austrian authorities prefer S-roads over A-roads because the environmental specifications are more relaxed for S-roads and therefore easier to get all the approvals, and easier to build. Maybe thats the reason why they decided to name it S10. So basically, its burocracy.
Historically speaking there was such regulatory difference back then, but this is no longer the case. I asume it is mostly done for PR reasons these days. In people's minds a Schnellstraße is less intruding than a Autobahn. Therefore the likeliness of protests is lower when you just build Schnellstraßen instead.

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There used to be a legal difference between Autobahnen and Schnellstraßen up until 2006. The only difference remaining now is how close people are allowed to build next to each kind of road (40 meters for Autobahn and 25 meters for Schnellstraße).
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Old August 16th, 2016, 03:55 PM   #4179
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Yes, since 2006 the legal differences between Schnellstraße and Autobahn are lifted, so that can't really be the motivation for the naming mess created..

Most Schnellstraßen are indeed with the same profile as the Autobahns, especially the "newly" (i.e. last 10 years) built ones, such as S1/S2, S10.

There are a few legacy ones remaining, though; S3 is 2+1 with median separation, S4 Mattersburger Schnellstraße in Burgenland is mostly 2+2 w/o a median barrier, the same for most of S37 Klagenfurter Schnellstraße (though there are plans to widen part of the S37, to get a full emergency strip & median separation, work could start next year, though that has been postponed a few times already; see http://www.asfinag.at/unterwegs/baup...lagenfurt-nord), and S16 Arlberg Schnellstraße is 2+1 and partially (most notably the Arlbergtunnel) 1+1
And on some others you have a mix of old (tighter radii for the curves, (much) smaller emergency strip,..) & new, e.g. on the S6 (Semmering Schnellstraße).

Also S35 from Graz to Bruck was always a bit special, the southern parts have been 2+2 since a long time, but it was always just signed as an Autostraße (equals more or less a trunk road, limited access), BUT it had speed limits of 130; this was a funny test in driving lessons :-) Supposedly already then there were political reasons to not even sign it a Schnellstraße. And even today it is like that:



In the northern parts, which were built recently, you have motorway standard, but due to many tunnels mostly a 100 speed limit.

One notable exception for a newly built Schnellstraße will be the northern extension of S3 - this will again be 2+1 with a median separator, see http://www.asfinag.at/unterwegs/baup...93-guntersdorf

There are also no preparatory works planned for a future extension of S3 to a full 2+2. But still, hopefully the new section will be a bit better than the already existing section, which was not purposely built like that, but is a converted Bundesstraße, and has issue especially on the bridges, where the 1-laned direction is really narrow and has no shoulder at all, which is not ideal in case of accidents and rescue vehicles getting stuck in the traffic jam behind; they have very confusing signs to tell people to NOT stop in those narrow sections but before, not sure how well that works out, though.
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Old August 16th, 2016, 06:04 PM   #4180
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Autostraße? Which road category is it? Any example of such roads?
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