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Old January 28th, 2017, 01:00 PM   #4301
Christian_AT
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Good, I'm looking forward to many years of arguments ahead with those fools!

Still, with yet another country moving to an e-vignette system, I really wish the EU would put their foot down and insist on a system that is more suited to the needs of car users. Take the typical Polish driver going to Croatia - I need to pay for vignettes for CZ, A and SLO, which for a two week holiday effectively means 2xA+SLO (about 35 Euro) and 1xCZ (monthly - about 20 Euro), then another 65 Euro in Croatia on tolls. 100 Euro in tolls between Wroclaw and Dubrovnik is way too much :/
for me it is funny why you use the austria topic, in this example austria is the cheapest country per km you have to pass (cheaper than some countries with distance pricing)

if you want to save money don't use the slovenia motorway, pay 2x15 Euro for 2x45km motorway, a little bit expensive

if you want to save more, think to dont use the motorway in CZ, why it is simple you have to made a detour to katovice, use direct local roads is shorter and not so much slower, save cz-vignette and save fuel
(local area Brünn/Brno motorway is free to use)
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Old January 28th, 2017, 11:25 PM   #4302
General Maximus
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Try France...
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Old January 29th, 2017, 02:01 AM   #4303
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Why do people think cheap or free motorways are some sort of human right?
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Old January 29th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #4304
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That you could say for anything else either not just motorways. "Cheap" is the magic word.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:04 AM   #4305
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Austrian vignette (or generally all vignettes) is VERY CHEAP if you are used to drive long distances many times per year compared to driving in Italy or France. It's VERY EXPENSIVE if you only drive a short distance, e.g. from a border crossing to the next exit, just once or twice per year, e.g. on vacation.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #4306
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Not only for short distances. Tarvisio-Florence-Tarvisio cost me 75 EUR last year. Ridicolous.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:14 AM   #4307
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Vignettes are - on average - more expensive for foreigners. They pay a substantially higher share of revenue than the share of kilometers traveled by them.

In Germany, foreign passenger cars make up 5% of the kilometers traveled but are forecasted to pay some 25% of the gross vignette revenue.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:53 AM   #4308
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Vignettes are - on average - more expensive for foreigners. They pay a substantially higher share of revenue than the share of kilometers traveled by them.

In Germany, foreign passenger cars make up 5% of the kilometers traveled but are forecasted to pay some 25% of the gross vignette revenue.
forget germany, only a nationalist party which wants to create the feeling of a victory, reality is their new promise is AFTER the next election, if you look at the numbers every normal person knows that this system will generate a loss of money for the country

and no system will be fair at the end, every system has its advantage and disadvantages, the advantage from the austria system is that we had 20 years ago ugly motorways with this company solution (minimized politic influence) and self funding (vignette + truck toll) the motorways improve every year and now they are in a good condition
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:54 AM   #4309
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It's not a German or Austrian issue but a general issue with vignettes.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:55 AM   #4310
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Yes, it's the same in Switzerland: foreign motorists drive 9.5% of all kilometers but pay 36% of vignette revenue.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 05:26 PM   #4311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Austrian vignette (or generally all vignettes) is VERY CHEAP if you are used to drive long distances many times per year compared to driving in Italy or France. It's VERY EXPENSIVE if you only drive a short distance, e.g. from a border crossing to the next exit, just once or twice per year, e.g. on vacation.

Of course, if you go for 10-15km on the motorway because your destination is very close to the border, the price is not great. And then you'd rather prefer to be charged for actual usage.

But in fact, I think the annual price of the Vignette in Austria is ridiculously cheap, especially if compared to e.g. Slovenia (of course, Switzerland is even cheaper for an annual ticket..)

Also, Austria is offers a 10 day Vignette, which is great for trips including two-weekends, and that costs only 8.9€ - compared to 15€ for a 7 day vignette in Slovenia!

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, it's the same in Switzerland: foreign motorists drive 9.5% of all kilometers but pay 36% of vignette revenue.
As Switzerland doesn't have any of these short-term stickers, it is quite logical that the foreigners contribute a lot to the vignette revenues...


I am not a very high-frequency motorway user, but in any case, I do prefer the vignette system over to what you see e.g. in Portugal, where in the last years, people revert to going back to national roads, because the newly introduced motorway prices are per km, and just too high.. That is just wrong from road safety, relieving local residents, and also likely environmental aspects.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 06:09 PM   #4312
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I think vignettes are basically a substitute for a road tax, and not to fund infrastructure directly. With Asfinag, the truck tolls provide almost ľ of all toll revenue.

Vignettes as a system to fund roads is inadequate. The revenue from vignettes alone is insufficient to pay for motorways. I think this is why Switzerland has more trouble with road funding than Austria, as in Switzerland, the truck toll revenue is not spent on the national roads, while in Austria all toll revenue flows to Asfinag.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 08:39 PM   #4313
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think vignettes are basically a substitute for a road tax, and not to fund infrastructure directly. With Asfinag, the truck tolls provide almost ľ of all toll revenue.
no it is more 2/3

numbers of 2015:

about 606 millions from cars

about 1252 millions from trucks
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Old January 29th, 2017, 08:44 PM   #4314
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That's true. Though the vignettes itself produce only around a quarter of revenue, the balance is made up by the 'Sondermautstrecken'.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 10:12 PM   #4315
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Originally Posted by Christian_AT View Post
and no system will be fair at the end, every system has its advantage and disadvantages,
What is the disadvantage of a system like the Italian one? Other than it not being ridiculously cheap? And, how is a system like that not fair? The more you drive, the more you pay = extremely fair IMO.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #4316
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Originally Posted by Negjana View Post
What is the disadvantage of a system like the Italian one? Other than it not being ridiculously cheap? And, how is a system like that not fair? The more you drive, the more you pay = extremely fair IMO.
Large, expensive interchanges with toll stations that generate traffic jams. But we have gone offtopic...
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:37 PM   #4317
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Last OT: We're in 2017, nobody needs toll stations to collect tolls per kilometer.........
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Old January 31st, 2017, 08:38 PM   #4318
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The main issue of vignette systems ist that you can't really use the freedom of travel because a short detour or even a shorter way wich leads through another country may be very expensive.
OK, especially in Austria it is not really an issue but imagine Genk - Aachen if the Netherlands had a vignette system... Sometimes I had the idea to drive from Vienna to Budapest through Slovakia, but you need a vignette there, € 10 for 12 kilometers. No way.
The German toll (IF it will be introduced) may make the route Salzburg - Kufstein ridiculously expensive for Austrian motorist if they have a 10+ years old car - and no one of them would be happy knowing that for that price they could even drive to Wilhelmshaven. I wonder how many Austrians will take the route via Zell am See or St. Johann.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 09:10 PM   #4319
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negjana View Post
What is the disadvantage of a system like the Italian one? Other than it not being ridiculously cheap? And, how is a system like that not fair? The more you drive, the more you pay = extremely fair IMO.
It seems fair, but look at the mobile telephone fares: everybody's getting a flat farem instead of those "pay-per-use" like in the early 2000s.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 09:14 PM   #4320
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Sometimes I had the idea to drive from Vienna to Budapest through Slovakia, but you need a vignette there, € 10 for 12 kilometers. No way.
That's easy...you exit A4 at Kittsee, follow the 50, then you take the 1020 to Jarovce, Rusovce and you rejoin M15 at Rajka... total cost:0 Eur...total delay, maybe 5 minutes, compared to the motorway.
Also much better option if you want to avoid x-amount of hours waiting to enter Austria, from Hungary, on a let's say...Sunday afternoon
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Чл. 140. Водачът на велосипед е длъжен да се движи възможно най-близо до дясната граница на платното за движение.
Чл. 141. На водача на велосипед е забранено:1. да се движи успоредно до друг велосипедист;
3. да се движи в непосредствена близост до пътно превозно средство или да се държи за него;
6. да управлява велосипед по площите, предназначени за движение само на пешеходци. Тази забрана не се отнася за децата велосипедисти.

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