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Old January 19th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #1081
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imo the problem is not the swapping, because the A6 is not a main radiale but a spur of the A4, so it should have eg. A41...

in this case the A5 has the right number...



in hungary there are some confusion too:

roads (primary mainroads and motorways) radiate from budapest and are numbered cw, started from west: 1,10,11,2,3,4,5,6,7

this is totally stupid, because it should be 1 to 9, so all the main radiale could have a 1 digit number...
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Old January 19th, 2010, 04:24 PM   #1082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
imo the problem is not the swapping, because the A6 is not a main radiale but a spur of the A4, so it should have eg. A41...

in this case the A5 has the right number...



in hungary there are some confusion too:

roads (primary mainroads and motorways) radiate from budapest and are numbered cw, started from west: 1,10,11,2,3,4,5,6,7

this is totally stupid, because it should be 1 to 9, so all the main radiale could have a 1 digit number...
Also A3 doesn't start in Vienna, but it starts at interchange with A2. A6 should be A5 and A5 should be A6, that would make sense.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #1083
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A5 also doesn't start in Wien, but more to the north at S1.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #1084
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it doesnt matter.
S1 is the wiener ring, so A5 starts in wien...

(the M2, M6 also start at the M0 of budapest with a trumpet IC...)

A3 really looks like a spur of A2, but its because the S1 ring goes very close to wien at this section...

it should take a bigger curve around the city, and in this case the A3 wouldnt be a spur but a real radiale...



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Old January 19th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #1085
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On a side note, I saw Austrian toll stickers being sold at Autobahn gas stations on the German A3 near Wurzburg. Now that's a long way from the border.
I bought my Austrian AND Slovenian vignette near Regensburg on A3.

I like that kind of service. I don't know how well they sell Czech or Slovakian vignettes outside those countries.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #1086
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We bought the Slovenian vignette at the Tauerntunnel/Katschbergtunnel tollbooth. In 2007, we bought the Slovak vignette at the CZ/SK border station. In those days this border wasn't in Schengen yet, so we had to stop anyway
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Old January 19th, 2010, 06:26 PM   #1087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I like that kind of service. I don't know how well they sell Czech or Slovakian vignettes outside those countries.
AFAIK you can buy Czech or Slovakian vignettes in Hungary, so they must be available in Austria too
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Old January 19th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I like that kind of service. I don't know how well they sell Czech or Slovakian vignettes outside those countries.
About the Czech ones, they are being distributed to ADAC and ÖAMTC as well. Particulary, you can buy vignettes at rest area on A17 near Breitenau (signage will remind you to do that) and on D2 and D5 both on rest areas just before the border, those stretches between border and rest area are free. But you won't be able to drive free to the first exit here...

Though, I am a bit OT in this thread, srry
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Old January 19th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #1089
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What I don't understand about A6 is it's number. A1 - A6 all radiate from Wien, but A6 and A5 should be swapped, to remain in the system. Since A6 is older than A5, I don't understand why they didn't just number it A5.
What I don't like is the alternance A14-S16-A12 on the Semmering motorway (even if the S16 has some parts with only one lane and Schnellstrassen have a different legal status than Autostrassen).
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Old January 19th, 2010, 08:04 PM   #1090
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Maybe it was intended for A12 to go towards Switzerland (Engadin) once. I can hardly believe that they would construct such a road now.

The Engadin happens to be one of the most isolated areas of the Alps, only accessible via alpine passes. I think the easiest access is actually from Austria by road.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 08:10 PM   #1091
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Or via the Vereina train shuttle.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 08:12 PM   #1092
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The Engadin happens to be one of the most isolated areas of the Alps, only accessible via alpine passes. I think the easiest access is actually from Austria by road.
Yeah, this road is connected to A12 via Landecker tunnel, most of the road serves as "motorroad", on the other hand, the swiss part is pretty curvy and loooong to drive. But landscape is really nice, environment is calm and it is one of the few locations where you can truly experience the Romansch (Rätoromanisch) language even whilst listening to radio
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Old January 19th, 2010, 10:16 PM   #1093
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Quote:
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Maybe it was intended for A12 to go towards Switzerland (Engadin) once. I can hardly believe that they would construct such a road now.
Can't see anyone even having thought of a motorway to Engadin. But the Austrians did have plans to build an S15 from Landeck to the Reschenpaß. Not sure at which standard, possibly just a 1+1 road with access restrictions and grade separations. Primary purpose of the proposed route was of course a better connection into Italy, not a better connection with Engadin. Plans were quickly abandoned though.

I think that the changes in number of the Arlberg route (original poster incorrectly referred to the Semmering) simply go back to the Austrian numbering system, which is based on completely separate numbering systems for each class of road (A, S, B). So A1 is not at all related to S1. As the Arlberg Tunnel route was always planned to be a Schnellstraße only, it was obvious that there could not be one road number all the way from Bregenz to Kufstein. If that's your starting point, it is obvious too that A12 and A14 would never been connected into one road with one A-number. So they kept them separate.

This numbering exercise could of course have been done an awful lot better. A bit of jiggling in the S-numbers could have led to a system in which roads that are partially motorway and partially Schnellstraße at least shared the number, e.g. A14 for the Rheintalautobahn and S14 for the Arlberg-Schnellstraße. Likewise, the Reschen-Schnellstraße could have been made S12, allowing for a nice continuation of the A12. But well, that's Austria. Their numbering is as crap as their motorway signage ...
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Old January 20th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #1094
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The second tube of the Tauern tunnel will be completed during spring 2010. After that, the existing tube will be renovated, and from mid-2011, two tubes will be available to traffic.

Meanwhile, the two tubes of the Katschberg tunnel are now both in operation.

Since the second tube of the Tauern tunnel will significantly reduce the congestion during summer peaks before this tunnel, I raise the question about the Katschberg tunnel toll plaza. This will be the next bottleneck for traffic heading south. The toll plaza has only 6 gates south, and the Tauern tunnel won't act like a ramp meter anymore the way it did before (I assume there will still be some kind of traffic control at the tunnel during peak days, to avoid congestion inside the tunnel).
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Old January 20th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #1095
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Which alp motorway have more traffic, A9 or A10? Anyone know the numbers?

When can be expected to complete the "second lanes" on A9?
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Old January 20th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #1096
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Quote:
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Which alp motorway have more traffic, A9 or A10? Anyone know the numbers?
Average traffic volumes:

A10 Tauern tunnel AADT: 17,000 (obviously much higher during summer)
A9 Plabutsch tunnel AADT: 30,000 (near Graz, probably much lower further north)

I do think the A10 is much busier in the summer, I almost never hear of big backups at the A9 tunnels (which are also single tube tunnels).

Quote:
When can be expected to complete the "second lanes" on A9?
Bosrucktunnel: completion 2014
Gleinalmtunnel: construction from 2013 onwards

Since building a second tube is something that generally takes 3 - 4 years, plus one year renovation of the existing tube, it will be at least like 2018 until A9 is twin-tubed for all tunnels. The Plabutsch tunnel was constructed with two tubes from the beginning (it opened in 2004).
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Old January 20th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #1097
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Thank you for the numbers Chris.

Anyone else have AADT for A9 in the Alps, Liezen for example?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A10 Tauern tunnel AADT: 17,000 (obviously much higher during summer)
A9 Plabutsch tunnel AADT: 30,000 (near Graz, probably much lower further north)



I do think the A10 is much busier in the summer, I almost never hear of big backups at the A9 tunnels (which are also single tube tunnels).
Yes I drove once on A10 in summer and the traffic was really high.

I agree about A9, I drove many times on whole A9 (winter, spring, summer and autumn) and traffic was never high.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Bosrucktunnel: completion 2014
Gleinalmtunnel: construction from 2013 onwards
It would be smart to complete Gleinalm tunnel ASAP, since it is the most dangerous tunnel (if I am correct) in Austria (if not in mid Europe).

It is 8 km long, with 1 tube only and NO emergancy exits!!!!

Last edited by rarse; January 20th, 2010 at 09:24 PM. Reason: correcting
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Old January 20th, 2010, 10:34 PM   #1098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Plabutsch tunnel was constructed with two tubes from the beginning (it opened in 2004).
No, the first tube opened in 1987, the second in 2004: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plabutschtunnel
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Old January 20th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #1099
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I see. It's the second-longest twin-tube tunnel in Europe (Gran Sasso tunnel in Italy is slightly longer).
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Old January 21st, 2010, 12:24 AM   #1100
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Quote:
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I see. It's the second-longest twin-tube tunnel in Europe (Gran Sasso tunnel in Italy is slightly longer).
my famous table:


1. Gran Sasso (I) 10176+10173=20349
2. Plabutsch (A) 10086+9919=20005
3. Seelisberg (CH) 9292+9250=18542
4. Rennsteig (D) 7916+7878=15794
5. Westerschelde (NL) 6650+6650=13300
6. Katschberg (A) 5898+5439 = 11337
7. Strengen (A) 5851+5775=11626
8. Mala Kapela (HR) 5821+5760=11581
9. Sveti Rok (HR) 5679+5670=11349
10. Cels (I) 5245+5141=10386

can somebody confirm me such a large difference between lenght of tubes of Katschberg tunnel? i find it weird (i am using information i have found on internet, i have also found 5898+5565 for Katschberg, but still difference is large)
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