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Old January 21st, 2010, 12:46 AM   #1101
mapman:cz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
can somebody confirm me such a large difference between lenght of tubes of Katschberg tunnel? i find it weird (i am using information i have found on internet, i have also found 5898+5565 for Katschberg, but still difference is large)
Asfinag says:
Quote:
Länge:
1. Röhre (Sanierung) 5.796m
2. Röhre (Neubau) 5.898m
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Old January 21st, 2010, 12:47 AM   #1102
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Katschberg (according to Asfinag):
old tube 5796m (according to the German Wikipedia, it's a bit longer after renovation, but they have other numbers saying that its now 5565m).
new tube 5898m
http://www.asfinag.at/index.php?modu...tid=287&pid=14

edit: damn, you've been faster!
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Old January 21st, 2010, 01:04 AM   #1103
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thanks 300 m was way too large difference!
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Old January 21st, 2010, 04:57 AM   #1104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I bought my Austrian AND Slovenian vignette near Regensburg on A3.

I like that kind of service. I don't know how well they sell Czech or Slovakian vignettes outside those countries.
You can also just buy your vignettes at your local ANWB tourist shop. It's cheaper and you don't have to wait at the border
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Old January 21st, 2010, 08:53 AM   #1105
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It's snowing again in Vienna this morning:

asfinag webcam pics:

A2
[IMG]http://i50.************/532zqf.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.************/swesnn.jpg[/IMG]


A1
[IMG]http://i50.************/fbyx3a.jpg[/IMG]


A23
[IMG]http://i46.************/2624h2f.jpg[/IMG]
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Old January 21st, 2010, 10:16 AM   #1106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ni3lS View Post
You can also just buy your vignettes at your local ANWB tourist shop. It's cheaper and you don't have to wait at the border
You can only buy Swiss and Austrian vignettes at ANWB. Plus they're more expensive (Swiss vignette is sold at € 29,70, while 40 CHF is € 27), and I need to refuel at a gas station anyway.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 01:45 PM   #1107
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Has been attention in Austria for tricky sellers of the vignette? Last summer when I wanted to take one at the first pump along the motorway after the Hungarian border near Nickelsdorf, a fat guy behind the counter tried to get from me about 5 euro for his own pocket. As far as I know on the vignette itself you don't see the price. As it is also often crowded there with tired, uninformed people in summer, it is not difficult to find victims. Fortunately my mind was bright and informed enough, but exactly because I didn't expect something like this in this beautiful country, it's still on my mind.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:01 PM   #1108
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I don't like the Nickelsdorf rest area, even the Shell station is run-down and often crowded, full of suspicious guys. I usually stop at the Moson rest area, where you can also buy the vignette at the MOL station.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 07:12 PM   #1109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knakker View Post
Has been attention in Austria for tricky sellers of the vignette? Last summer when I wanted to take one at the first pump along the motorway after the Hungarian border near Nickelsdorf, a fat guy behind the counter tried to get from me about 5 euro for his own pocket. As far as I know on the vignette itself you don't see the price. As it is also often crowded there with tired, uninformed people in summer, it is not difficult to find victims. Fortunately my mind was bright and informed enough, but exactly because I didn't expect something like this in this beautiful country, it's still on my mind.
I hate that fat guy. He is speaking Hungarian and working at the Nickelsdorf rest area right after the actual border. They are very greedy there - they make you pay the toilet, even though it is dirty due to the many passers there.
But I always have to meet this unpleasant man - I am charging my GO-Box there.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 04:53 PM   #1110
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Originally Posted by rarse View Post
It would be smart to complete Gleinalm tunnel ASAP, since it is the most dangerous tunnel (if I am correct) in Austria (if not in mid Europe).

It is 8 km long, with 1 tube only and NO emergancy exits!!!!
I didn't like the Gleinalm tunnel as well, there is very thick smog from exhaust due to inadequate ventilation in that tunnel. Sometimes the visibility is way below safety standards. Other single-tube tunnels in Austria have this problem as well.

Because traffic moves in both directions, exhaust is not flowed away with traffic but stays in the tunnel. This usually is less of a problem in two-tubed tunnels since in every tube, the exhaust will be sucked by traffic moving all in the same direciton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I read the first 24 km of A5 will open on February 1st, 2010. Any chance this is delayed, or will it open on time?
I didn't notice until today, but February 1st is also the opening date of S1 between A5 and A22 on the northwestern side of Wien. It doesn't have much significance for through-traffic until the eastern part of S1 will open though. It will provide an alternate route from Hungary to southern Czechia.

As you see more often in Austria, the amount of tunnels is exaggerated, of the 13.5km, half of it will be in tunnels while the landscape consists of low rolling hills and is mostly treeless.

The eastern part of S1 will even include an 8.5 km long twin-tubed tunnel under the Donau river. Construction of this section should start in 2011.

Except for the A26 in Linz, all new motorways in Austria will be constructed in the Wien region in the coming years.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 06:28 PM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I didn't like the Gleinalm tunnel as well, there is very thick smog from exhaust due to inadequate ventilation in that tunnel. Sometimes the visibility is way below safety standards. Other single-tube tunnels in Austria have this problem as well.

Because traffic moves in both directions, exhaust is not flowed away with traffic but stays in the tunnel. This usually is less of a problem in two-tubed tunnels since in every tube, the exhaust will be sucked by traffic moving all in the same direciton.
I haven't pay attention on smog that much, but yes I remember visibility was low - interesting what you wrote why it is so - IMHO you are right.

Anyway the thing that bothers me most about this tunnel is, if something happens in the mid of the tunnel, how should a human run from the fire and 'bad air' that fast for 4,15 km?! I just don't understand.

And the equally unsafe is Karavanke/Karawanken tunnel.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Except for the A26 in Linz, all new motorways in Austria will be constructed in the Wien region in the coming years.
This looks very centralistic, but still are there stretches that are more important?

I don't know very well Austrian traffic statistics.

What is the need of motorway and what is the AADT on the routes:

- Linz - Czech border (future extended A7)?
- Ried - German border (Innkreis Autobahn / Linz - Munich route)?
- Vienna - Czech border (direction Jihlava CZ and future A5)?
- Liezen - A10 (Graz - Salzburg shorter link)?
- A2 - Hungarian border (Graz - Hungary route)?
- unfinished sections between Klagenfurt and Vienna (S37, S36, S6)?
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Old January 27th, 2010, 07:17 PM   #1112
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I think that the connections across the former iron curtain are most important for Austria. That's probably the reason why the Vienna region is getting some new motorways.
Of the rest a connection German border - Ried - Innkreis-Autobahn might become very much needed in the near future (if, on some distant day, the German A94 will be completed) as otherwise traffic will definitely become hellish in that region.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 07:19 PM   #1113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarse View Post
What is the need of motorway and what is the AADT on the routes:

- Linz - Czech border (future extended A7)?
S10: under construction until Freistadt-Nord, opening in 2015. No date until the Czech border. Will continue as R3 towards Praha (later D3).

AADT:
2015 10.300 - 12.400
2025: 19.000 - 40.000

Quote:
- Ried - German border (Innkreis Autobahn / Linz - Munich route)?
S9: no construction dates foreseen as of now. A94 is progressing awfully slow as well.


Quote:
- Vienna - Czech border (direction Jihlava CZ and future A5)?
S3 towards Znojmo, completed as 2+1 towards Hollabrunn, extension towards Guntersdorf in 2014. Towards Czech border as traffic requires it, probably around 2018 - 2020. Can be dualled into a 2x2 motorway.

AADT Stockerau - Hollabrunn: 15.000

Quote:
- Liezen - A10 (Graz - Salzburg shorter link)?
There is no such road planned to my knowledge. Technically it shouldn't be a problem, no major tunnels required as it follows a long valley. It doesn't cross a high mountain pass.

Quote:
- A2 - Hungarian border (Graz - Hungary route)?
That is the S7. Will probably be built closer to 2020 than 2010. Maybe together with Hungarian motorway M8.

AADT:
border 6.000
Fürstenfeld: 18.500

Quote:
- unfinished sections between Klagenfurt and Vienna (S37, S36, S6)?
S6 is completed. S36 as well. S37 Klagenfurt - Judenburg probably around 2014.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 10:28 AM   #1114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
S10: under construction until Freistadt-Nord, opening in 2015. No date until the Czech border. Will continue as R3 towards Praha (later D3).

AADT:
2015 10.300 - 12.400
2025: 19.000 - 40.000
Nice. It would be good if Czech D3/R3 would be relative fast as well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
S9: no construction dates foreseen as of now. A94 is progressing awfully slow as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thun
Of the rest a connection German border - Ried - Innkreis-Autobahn might become very much needed in the near future (if, on some distant day, the German A94 will be completed) as otherwise traffic will definitely become hellish in that region.
In my opinion this could be a good alternative for the Munich - Linz - Vienna link, since German A8 (Munich - Salzburg) is pretty crowded from what I have experienced.

(I don't know how is with Linz - Salzburg A1).



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
S3 towards Znojmo, completed as 2+1 towards Hollabrunn, extension towards Guntersdorf in 2014. Towards Czech border as traffic requires it, probably around 2018 - 2020. Can be dualled into a 2x2 motorway.

AADT Stockerau - Hollabrunn: 15.000
Sounds nice. Didn't know for 2+1. Thanks.

Anyway, as far as I know Czechs don't have priority plans for the Jihlava - Znojmo R or D road. That doesn't sound promising for the nice Vienna - Prague connection.



Quote:
- Liezen - A10 (Graz - Salzburg shorter link)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There is no such road planned to my knowledge. Technically it shouldn't be a problem, no major tunnels required as it follows a long valley. It doesn't cross a high mountain pass.
In my opinion it is not even needed that much (every time I traveled there it was low or normal traffic flow).

But still a lot of people (as far as I know) who travel on the route Graz - Salzburg use that road , which is:
  • 27 km shorter
  • 4,5 EUR cheaper for the passenger cars (no Bosrück tunnel)
  • but 12 minutes longer
  • and less comfortably (in comparison with motorway)
than A9 and A1.

Except for the mountainview of Schladming area, I would use A9 and A1.



Quote:
That is the S7. Will probably be built closer to 2020 than 2010. Maybe together with Hungarian motorway M8.

AADT:
border 6.000
Fürstenfeld: 18.500
Looks like no big traffic is going from Graz to border. Anyway the terrain is pretty good and the distance from A2 to border is about 20 km.



To make a conclusion:

Quote:
Except for the A26 in Linz, all new motorways in Austria will be constructed in the Wien region in the coming years.
What AADT should be the lowest, to construct a motorway? Does it depend from country to country or from case to case?

As far as I see, there are no very important stretches (except maybe S9, which would 'save' Salzburg?).

So from this point of view maybe Vienna is excused for that?

Last edited by rarse; January 30th, 2010 at 10:34 AM.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #1115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarse View Post
What AADT should be the lowest, to construct a motorway? Does it depend from country to country or from case to case?
There is no general rule for that. Keep in mind the maximum AADT for a 2-lane road is about 25.000 AADT. The lowest AADT for a motorway in the Netherlands is about 8,000 at a border crossing. I have also seen Spanish motorways with an AADT as low as 3.000 to 5.000.

Traffic safety, regional development and the cities it connects are also of importance. Good infrastructure is important. Companies are reluctant to set up a location that is only accessible by driving 1 hour via country roads or when there is no workforce within reasonable driving time. Motorways shorten driving time, so people from villages are able to take that further away and better pay job. That's called mobility of the workforce. Although commuting traffic is usually seen as a downside, it is also important in keeping the countryside economically viable.

In modern countries, the countryside is usually not very poor, because people have the opportunity to take better jobs than farming in the nearby regional cities. For instance, in Romania and Poland, motorways (and other good roads) are vital in keeping the countryside from falling far below urban income standards. You can see the wages in northeastern Poland are only half of that what they are in Warszawa for instance.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 07:58 PM   #1116
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
No, the first tube opened in 1987, the second in 2004: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plabutschtunnel
I was thinking about this, I think the main reason why they built the second tube here, and not in the tunnels under the main chains of the Alps is that traffic can quite easy avoid tunnel congestion by driving through Graz. In the Alps, tunnel congestion cannot be avoided very good, especially not for summer traffic with caravans etc. It's all about politics.

Although it seems that most tunnels in Austria will be twinned in the near future. I think it has to do with the catastrophic tunnel fires in the late 1990's. Traffic safety. Most plans originally called for double tube tunnels in the late 1970's and early 1980's, but most plans were frozen in 1988 due to high cost and less-than-expected traffic year-round.

Tunnels to be twinned or already twinned recently:

* A14 Ambergtunnel: 2003
* A9 Plabutschtunnel: 2004
* A2 Gräberntunnel: 2004
* A2 Herzogbergtunnel: 2006
* A10 Katschberg Tunnel: 2008
* A12 Roppener Tunnel: 2009
* A10 Tauern Tunnel: 2010
* A14 Pfändertunnel: 2012
* A9 Bosrucktunnel: 2014
* A9 Gleinalmtunnel: 2017

Tunnels without advanced plans to be twinned:

* A11 Karawanken Tunnel
* S16 Arlberg Tunnel
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Old January 30th, 2010, 08:15 PM   #1117
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The Arlberg tunnel is in fact made by...two tunnels, linked by a covered bridge. The bridge of the second tube is already built.

http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sourc...02401&t=k&z=19
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Old January 30th, 2010, 08:30 PM   #1118
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From what rarse said (help! i cant quote like most people do! :S)
From Liezen to A10 there is no planned motorway. Well from Exit Liezen at the A9 (P.S. I think that exit is the only left-handed exit on Austria) to a roundabout it is a 1+1 road but it is classified as "Schnellstrasse". I think the motorway should be build there since it carries European Road Number (E5..).
Once I passed through S3 and the progress there is quite....awful. The road always change from 2+1 then 1+2...and there are also sharp exits.
And one last thing, for the A16 (Connector A1,A13,and A14) do somebody know where it would be built?
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Old January 30th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #1119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The Arlberg tunnel is in fact made by...two tunnels, linked by a covered bridge. The bridge of the second tube is already built.

http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sourc...02401&t=k&z=19
i had no idea about this! interesting!
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Old January 30th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #1120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallex View Post
(help! i cant quote like most people do! :S)
If you want to quote, just click Quote button on the bottom right side of the post you wish to quote.

You can also do that if you select Post Reply button at the bottom left side of the page.

Inside of the form for reply, simply paste the text, select it and click 15th icon which looks like a balloon.

To the code of quote, you can add a username like:

[QUOTE=Vallex]Text[/QUOTE]
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