daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 16th, 2011, 05:16 PM   #1361
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

I did, and I meant to open new traffic expressways right into built-up inner-city area, sparing only its medieval core
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 16th, 2011, 05:22 PM   #1362
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

You don't need inner city expressways in a city the size of Salzburg. Most jobs are not in the historic core anyway, most traffic will be around the center and in industrial areas on the edge of the city. However, apart from the A1 and A10, there are no good local roads bypassing Salzburg. To bypass the center, you need to get on all kinds of twisty roads not designed for through traffic. A10 is a bit far from Salzburg to carry local traffic and has only one exit to serve the area.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2011, 11:40 AM   #1363
phiberoptik
Şerif
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zagreb
Posts: 237
Likes (Received): 19

Did someone made chronological progress of Austrian Autobahn and Schnellstrassenbahn network, just like TBoy made it for Croatia here? Or is there some site with history
I'm just interested in A9, A10 and A11.
phiberoptik no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #1364
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Yes:

http://www.wabweb.net/verkehr/austria/a_ab3.htm
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2011, 12:47 PM   #1365
phiberoptik
Şerif
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zagreb
Posts: 237
Likes (Received): 19

@ChrisZwole: Thank you for quick respond
phiberoptik no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2011, 12:49 AM   #1366
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,597
Likes (Received): 5958

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I did, and I meant to open new traffic expressways right into built-up inner-city area, sparing only its medieval core
Ah, great. Yes, lets dig out the plans of converting the Wien river into a highway connecting the States Opera right to the A1 and fully convert the Guertel into an inner ring highway. Instead of reviving the Guertel area into a vibrant urban quarter finally kill it off and with it entire neighbourhoods along it.

Sounds like the urban concept of the future.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2011, 01:32 AM   #1367
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Ah, great. Yes, lets dig out the plans of converting the Wien river into a highway connecting the States Opera right to the A1 and fully convert the Guertel into an inner ring highway. Instead of reviving the Guertel area into a vibrant urban quarter finally kill it off and with it entire neighbourhoods along it.

Sounds like the urban concept of the future.
You can always build new neighborhoods with all "vibrancy" (the most overrated attribute for an urban area IMO) you want.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #1368
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,597
Likes (Received): 5958

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
You can always build new neighborhoods with all "vibrancy" (the most overrated attribute for an urban area IMO) you want.
Yes. Vienna could be a so much better place to live if they had built the Donaukanalautobahn, the Wientalautobahn and the Guertelautobahn, effectively crippling half of the centre and transforming it into some sort of hell hole with a small open air museum at its heart.

Your kind of mindset had its heyday in the 1960s. In the meanwhile even in America most municipal governments figured out that lightheartedly destroying city centres and substituting them with more suburbia was not all that clever after all.

Those who'd like to live in suburbia should do so but why are you so eager on destroying the urban centres? Do you hate them that much?
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK

Last edited by Slartibartfas; January 25th, 2011 at 08:45 PM.
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 04:40 AM   #1369
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post

Those who'd like to live in suburbia should do so but why are you so eager on destroying the urban centres? Do you hate them that much?
I don't hate anything. I just don't like the sense we are living in a continent more and more paralyzed by sake of its architectural and urban development history. I think it is healthy that areas come in favor and then decay, and that metropolis have constantly changing centralities. It is not because somewhere was the center of life of a given city in 1400 that it should still be today! Sometimes, massive demolition and reconstruction helps that purpose.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 01:01 PM   #1370
JackFrost
Hun Solo
 
JackFrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sopron/Wien
Posts: 4,278
Likes (Received): 11824

Are there any plans to eliminate that terrible bottleneck at the interchanging of A2 and A3? I mean all these fancy projects, like tunnels here, bridges there, but nobody cares about the daily jams when coming from Eisenstadt to A2.
JackFrost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #1371
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1819

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't hate anything. I just don't like the sense we are living in a continent more and more paralyzed by sake of its architectural and urban development history. I think it is healthy that areas come in favor and then decay, and that metropolis have constantly changing centralities. It is not because somewhere was the center of life of a given city in 1400 that it should still be today! Sometimes, massive demolition and reconstruction helps that purpose.
People usually like the historic centres of towns more than brand new large-scale concrete developments(including elevated motorways).
It takes time to form a good public space and that is worth much more than any idea an architect or an urban planner has come up with.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #1372
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Sometimes, massive demolition and reconstruction helps that purpose.
Total madness.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 06:06 PM   #1373
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Frost View Post
Are there any plans to eliminate that terrible bottleneck at the interchanging of A2 and A3? I mean all these fancy projects, like tunnels here, bridges there, but nobody cares about the daily jams when coming from Eisenstadt to A2.
The A2-A23 corridor is the busiest in Austria. However, most priorities seem to go to developing regional S-roads towards neighboring countries. One mistake in my opinion was to built S1 with 2x2 lanes. It should have been 2x3 lanes. Traffic volumes are already around 60.000 - 70.000 vehicles per day which means it is nearing its capacity.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #1374
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

I think he meant this unfinished thing where whole motorway condenses into one lane:
http://goo.gl/maps/eSaN

There is more than enough lanes on A2 further up north (4+4)
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 08:42 PM   #1375
rower2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zurich [CH], formerly Bregenz [A]
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 91

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The A2-A23 corridor is the busiest in Austria. However, most priorities seem to go to developing regional S-roads towards neighboring countries. One mistake in my opinion was to built S1 with 2x2 lanes. It should have been 2x3 lanes. Traffic volumes are already around 60.000 - 70.000 vehicles per day which means it is nearing its capacity.
It was easier to press through wit only 2x2 lanes. However, the whole stretch including the tunnels have an extra-wide shoulder in the width of one full lane. I think the planners wanted to have a cheap upgrade possible via the back door. A normal 2,50 m shoulder can be added later at low cost and low planning risk...
rower2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2011, 08:45 PM   #1376
JackFrost
Hun Solo
 
JackFrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sopron/Wien
Posts: 4,278
Likes (Received): 11824

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The A2-A23 corridor is the busiest in Austria. However, most priorities seem to go to developing regional S-roads towards neighboring countries. One mistake in my opinion was to built S1 with 2x2 lanes. It should have been 2x3 lanes. Traffic volumes are already around 60.000 - 70.000 vehicles per day which means it is nearing its capacity.
I am using S1 every day, and its almost never crowded. Anyway, maybe there will be a 3rd lane needed in near future.

But Keber is right, I meant that section of A3 where it condenses into one lane before A2. Thats a very serious bottleneck there I tell you, and nobody seems to give a damn.
JackFrost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2011, 10:39 AM   #1377
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,597
Likes (Received): 5958

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't hate anything. I just don't like the sense we are living in a continent more and more paralyzed by sake of its architectural and urban development history. I think it is healthy that areas come in favor and then decay, and that metropolis have constantly changing centralities. It is not because somewhere was the center of life of a given city in 1400 that it should still be today! Sometimes, massive demolition and reconstruction helps that purpose.
Who says that centres are fixed for all eternity? They are not in Vienna either. Public life nowadays centers a lot in the inner districts rather than the 1st district. The attempt to create a new center at the UN headquarters can be considered to be a half failed one so far. A new attempt is at the new main rail station which may have better chances because of IMO better planning and better location still within the dense parts of the city.

But its a completely different issue than the one you were talking about above. What you were talking about was deliberate destruction of urban fabrics when it is much cheaper to bring what already is there up to date with the aim of optimizing life of quality in these parts of the city rather than building the perfect car optimized city. Why should one discard all the existing infrastructure for some massive planned new burb development somewhere in the middle of nowhere. Because its more expensive and while the destruction of the old quarters is pretty much for granted with what you suggest, the success of the new ones is definitely not. Not to forget that when I look to those communities in Germany which were so daring a few decades ago in doing exactly what you suggest its much more common to hear people from these cities complaining about that "progressive city replanning" rather than thinking positively of it.

If you want to mess up your city, just go ahead. But don't mess up the one I am living in.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK

Last edited by Slartibartfas; January 30th, 2011 at 10:49 AM.
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2011, 12:16 PM   #1378
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

How long are the summer queues on the Bosruck and Gleinalm tunnels?
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #1379
wdw35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 471
Likes (Received): 0

Knotten Schwechat. Check out the south-to-east ramp.

[IMG]http://i53.************/w7xyde.png[/IMG]

It took three iterations to "get it right"
(And this will change again when the bypass will be extended north)
wdw35 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #1380
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Knoten Schwechat was designed to be a cloverleaf. It may have been a regular exit for a while before S1 was constructed in this area. A4 is older than S1.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
austria

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium