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Old April 1st, 2012, 04:45 PM   #1941
mcarling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
I often hear that story. However when I was there I never saw any food coming from elsewhere than Africa.
I wonder whether or not any food could possibly have been delivered from Europe to Africa while you were in Africa without you seeing it.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 05:57 PM   #1942
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Quote:
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I often hear that story. However when I was there I never saw any food coming from elsewhere than Africa.
Well there is indeed international trade. The point being that agriculture sector comprise small part of GDP in EU, but higher part of GDP in Africa. And there is certainly comparative advantage of the sector in Africa due to the lower wages and lower living standards, cheap oil etc... Thus it would make more sense to import food from Africa in a terms of efficiency. But yeah, we rather import oil because that makes much more sense in the sense of our well being .

Also, whether or not you believe it, the EU agriculture subvences, tarrifs and quotas makes your meals and meals of people in africa more expensive.

But on the trade facts... The balance of Africa with EU is around 10 B euro in and out in the food and agriculture products.

just quickly: http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_137129.pdf
and

More throughout analysis of EU exports imports: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/por...ol12-20111.pdf
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Old April 1st, 2012, 06:59 PM   #1943
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I think we're starting to wander off-topic here. My point was just that these dust storms which create dangerous driving conditions are the result of deforestation. One of the effects the gradual reforestation (if it continues) will be to reduce the intensity and frequency of these dust storms and improve the safety of driving conditions.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 10:48 PM   #1944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
I think we're starting to wander off-topic here. My point was just that these dust storms which create dangerous driving conditions are the result of deforestation. One of the effects the gradual reforestation (if it continues) will be to reduce the intensity and frequency of these dust storms and improve the safety of driving conditions.
In that area where this happened there hasn't been any forest since many decades (or centuries?). Flat land is rare in Austria compared to other countries, therefore most of it is used as farm land. 46% of Austria is forest!
I used to live just a few km away from this Autobahn. I can remember days when we had a lot of sand inside the house due to sandstorms.
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Last edited by Vienna21; April 2nd, 2012 at 12:25 AM.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:36 AM   #1945
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In that area where this happened there hasn't been any forest since many decades (or centuries?). Flat land is rare in Austria compared to other countries, therefore most of it is used as farm land. 46% of Austria is forest!
It's used to be about double that.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:33 PM   #1946
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In the early middle ages, when there were only a few hundred thousands of people and larger parts of the Alps haven't been settled yet? It doesn't make much sense to compare those two eras as the conditions totally changed.

Central Europe (Austria, Germany, Switzerland) together with Japan is the part of the first world with the largest share of forests by far as those are the regions where sustainable silviculture was invented. In fact, in some of those, the share of forests is growing (Southern Tyrol, Germany) for quite some time now.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:55 AM   #1947
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Quote:
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Central Europe (Austria, Germany, Switzerland) together with Japan is the part of the first world with the largest share of forests by far
Switzerland (31%) and Germany (32%) aren't particularly forested, there're many rich countries with more forests.

http://www.blatantworld.com/feature/...countries.html
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 05:07 AM   #1948
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ASFiNAG offers free wi-fi on several rest areas:

cool map
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:29 AM   #1949
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Is there any proposed motorway/expressway connection between eastern and western Austrian motorways? I know that right now all the traffic from Salzburg to Innsbruck goes through German A8 & A91, but how about a connection inside Austria?
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:14 AM   #1950
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There were plans in the 1970s but they were cancelled.
There would have been S11 (Bischofshofen - Lofer) and S12 (Wörgl - Unken)
as such a connection.

However nowadays there are no plans for such a connection.


(http://www.wabweb.net/verkehr/vkimages/BSG71plan.jpg)
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:42 AM   #1951
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Interestingly, no S37 to Klagenfurt.

There's a lot of hassle about the S6/S36/S37, they're afraid it attracts too much traffic from A2. But given the fact traffic volumes on A2 are rather low, and an even lower percentage is traffic that drives several hundred kilometers, I think it's not much on real terms.

Unfortunately, the old "through traffic will destroy our communities" still work fairly good in politics, even though they never come up with any data to back those arguments.

Traffic volumes on the quitest parts of A2 between Wien and Klagenfurt are only 20.000 - 30.000 vehicles per day. How much of that would drive all the way from Wien to Klagenfurt and further? Maybe a couple of thousand potential users for S6/S36/S37 instead of A2, that'll hardly make a difference. Unfortunately plans for high-standard roads accommodating 20.000 - 30.000 vehicles get shot down over the fact it may attract 2.000 or 3.000 vehicles from another route. We have a similar discussion about a project in the Netherlands currently.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:44 AM   #1952
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Not anytime soon, if ever. There was a proposal from Spittal to Tirol decades ago (and a small part at Spittal was built too) but with good working connection over German A9 (which is planned to be widened in the future) a motorway connection inside Austria is a science fiction.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:53 AM   #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
Interestingly, no S37 to Klagenfurt.

There's a lot of hassle about the S6/S36/S37, they're afraid it attracts too much traffic from A2. But given the fact traffic volumes on A2 are rather low, and an even lower percentage is traffic that drives several hundred kilometers, I think it's not much on real terms.

Unfortunately, the old "through traffic will destroy our communities" still work fairly good in politics, even though they never come up with any data to back those arguments.

Traffic volumes on the quitest parts of A2 between Wien and Klagenfurt are only 20.000 - 30.000 vehicles per day. How much of that would drive all the way from Wien to Klagenfurt and further? Maybe a couple of thousand potential users for S6/S36/S37.
When I drove the road between Klagenfurt and Judenburg (current southern terminus of S36) I saw everywhere 'no motorway' billboards. Is this project already cancelled?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:54 AM   #1954
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It's scaled down as far as I know. They specifically stated it will not be a continuous motorway/expressway. It was presented at the ASFiNAG budget cut plans a few days ago.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:59 AM   #1955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
It's scaled down as far as I know. They specifically stated it will not be a continuous motorway/expressway. It was presented at the ASFiNAG budget cut plans a few days ago.
Part of the Klagenfurt - Judenburg road is already 4 lanes with no at-grade junctions, but it has no median (only a double solid line in the middle). Adding a median would be enough to made it an expressway.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:05 AM   #1956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It was presented at the ASFiNAG budget cut plans a few days ago.
Any other news from that presentation? I saw the news about the Karawanken tunnel. Anything else? We may have been distracted by the strumatic tollbooth accident.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:14 AM   #1957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauernautobahn View Post
There were plans in the 1970s but they were cancelled.
There would have been S11 (Bischofshofen - Lofer) and S12 (Wörgl - Unken)
as such a connection.

However nowadays there are no plans for such a connection.
(http://www.wabweb.net/verkehr/vkimages/BSG71plan.jpg)
This connection made sense before Schengen. Now there is no need for it, the route between Vienna and Innsbruck is already direct although passing through Germany. The priority would be a motorway between Innsbruck and the Swiss border.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:19 AM   #1958
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
This connection made sense before Schengen. Now there is no need for it, the route between Vienna and Innsbruck is already direct although passing through Germany. The priority would be a motorway between Innsbruck and the Swiss border.
There is already the Arlberg motorway-expressway.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:21 AM   #1959
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Any other news from that presentation? I saw the news about the Karawanken tunnel. Anything else? We may have been distracted by the strumatic tollbooth accident.
Not that much news. They found some co-financing with regional governments which they presented as a budget cuts (yes, it is for ASFiNAG).

* A5 will be phased with first one carriageway, and later the second, pending the construction of R52 on the Czech side.
* S3 Hollabrunn - Guntersdorf is scaled back to a 2+1 road
* A26 Linz will be executed with longer duration roadworks which would save some money
* S1 Wiener Außenring: postponed to after 2018 (specifically: tunnel Löbau)
* S36 Judenburg - St Georgen: postponed and scaled back to existing road improvement
* S36 St Georgen - Scheifling: scaled back to existing road improvement

Two projects are canceled:

* A24 Spange Wien (S1/A23 connection)
* A26 Linzer Ring, northern segment canceled for the time being.

Overall ASFiNAG cuts back € 2.8 billion during the next 4 years.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:28 AM   #1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauernautobahn View Post
There were plans in the 1970s but they were cancelled.
There would have been S11 (Bischofshofen - Lofer) and S12 (Wörgl - Unken)
as such a connection.

However nowadays there are no plans for such a connection.
Thank you for your answer. Even if those express-ways would have been built, it still would be a better option to drive from Salzburg (Wien) to Innsbruck via Germany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There's a lot of hassle about the S6/S36/S37, they're afraid it attracts too much traffic from A2. But given the fact traffic volumes on A2 are rather low, and an even lower percentage is traffic that drives several hundred kilometers, I think it's not much on real terms.
Traffic on A2 is fine. It's not an empty motorway, but it's not a crowded one. In fact, I noticed that around large towns there is some traffic, but there were sections between towns that were with very few traffic (especially before Graz, comming from the south). I don't think that much of the traffic from Wien to Klagenfurt would move to S6/S36/S37 because it's more confortable to drive on a motorway and the speed limit is higher.

Here is a video from A2 Klagenfurt-Graz. Check the traffic from the halfway.



And S37 near Graz:

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