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Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:58 AM   #1961
mcarling
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A5 will be phased with first one carriageway, and later the second, pending the construction of R52 on the Czech side.
Will the A5 be single carriageway just from Poysdorf to the CZ border? Or from Schrick to Poysdorf also? I hope at least the Schrick to Poysdorf section will be built as 2x2.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:05 PM   #1962
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Quote:
A 5 Nord/Weinviertel Autobahn:
Die A 5 ist eine Strecke von europäischer Bedeutung (TEN Netz). Der grenzüberschreitende Lückenschluss an die R 52 wird allerdings noch Jahre dauern, während die Entlastung der Ortschaften an der B 7 dringend erforderlich ist. So wird der 25 km lange Abschnitt zwischen Schrick und Poysbrunn vorangetrieben (Baubeginn 2013) und die letzten neun km bis zur Staatsgrenze in zwei Ausbauschritten umgesetzt. Zunächst wird eine zweistreifige Umfahrung von Drasenhofen errichtet. Der spätere Vollausbau bis zur Grenze erfolgt in Abstimmung mit Tschechien. So wird eine vorläufige Einsparung von rd. 60 Mio. Euro erzielt.
So only the last 9 kilometers will be initially constructed with 2 lanes.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:13 PM   #1963
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza

There is already the Arlberg motorway-expressway.
Yes, but is partly 1+1 and it doesn't cross the CH border.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:15 PM   #1964
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The Arlbergtunnel handles only 7.700 vehicles per day, so twinning is not really economic, considering the high cost. Furthermore, east-west traffic in this area (eastern Switzerland, western Austria) is not very large, the main traffic flows have always been north-south.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:18 PM   #1965
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
The Arlbergtunnel handles only 7.700 vehicles per day, so twinning is not really economic, considering the high cost. Furthermore, east-west traffic in this area (eastern Switzerland, western Austria) is not very large, the main traffic flows have always been north-south.
A 14km long single tube tunnel isn't IMHO very safe.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:18 PM   #1966
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Yes, but is partly 1+1 and it doesn't cross the CH border.
I drove there and found literally no-one inside the Arlberg tunnel. Plus, there are only a couple km of normal road between CH and A motorways near Feldkirch.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:21 PM   #1967
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A 14km long single tube tunnel isn't IMHO very safe.
Norway has a 24 km single tube tunnel

EU guidelines mandate a second tube only if volumes exceed 20.000 vehicles per day. However, an escape tube is necessary, and they are currently constructing one. The escape tube costs nearly € 100 million.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:23 PM   #1968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle

Norway has a 24 km single tube tunnel

EU guidelines mandate a second tube only if volumes exceed 20.000 vehicles per day. However, an escape tube is necessary, and they are currently constructing one. The escape tube costs nearly € 100 million.
With those money or little more you can dig a more useful traffic tube.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:28 PM   #1969
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So only the last 9 kilometers will be initially constructed with 2 lanes.
Interesting. The last 9 kilometers will start about 5 kilometers north of Poysdorf. I'm not sure if that means these 5 kilometers of dual carriageway will be built together with the Schrick - Poysdorf section from 2013 to 2016. I guess probably not.

Anyway, construction of the 20 kilometers from Schrick to Poysdorf should be enough to move nearly all the Vienna - Brno traffic which now uses the CZ D2 over to using the R52 instead. That may provide the AADT numbers needed to justify 2x2 construction all the way from Vienna to Brno.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:33 PM   #1970
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With those money or little more you can dig a more useful traffic tube.
I don't think it's "a little more". The second tube of the Tauern Tunnel has cost € 213 million and it's less than half the distance of the Arlberg Tunnel. A quick calculation based on distance means a second traffic tube will cost at least € 400 - 450 million. That's a lot of money for basically 3.500 - 4.000 vehicles per day, I don't think you can justify that economically.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:58 PM   #1971
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle

I don't think it's "a little more". The second tube of the Tauern Tunnel has cost € 213 million and it's less than half the distance of the Arlberg Tunnel. A quick calculation based on distance means a second traffic tube will cost at least € 400 - 450 million. That's a lot of money for basically 3.500 - 4.000 vehicles per day, I don't think you can justify that economically.
Yup, I expected a smaller cost difference.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 01:38 PM   #1972
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Tunnel boring costs are dropping every year.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 02:00 PM   #1973
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Originally Posted by italystf
This connection made sense before Schengen. Now there is no need for it, the route between Vienna and Innsbruck is already direct although passing through Germany. The priority would be a motorway between Innsbruck and the Swiss border.
Traffic jams are not too rare on this connection, but nowadays there's no space left to expand. The street is running thru cities in a narrow valley, where a long tunnel would be the only bypass possibility. Long story short: Way too expensive.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 02:04 PM   #1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle

I don't think it's "a little more". The second tube of the Tauern Tunnel has cost EUR 213 million and it's less than half the distance of the Arlberg Tunnel. A quick calculation based on distance means a second traffic tube will cost at least EUR 400 - 450 million. That's a lot of money for basically 3.500 - 4.000 vehicles per day, I don't think you can justify that economically.
Also the second tube of the Tauerntunnel was not digged completely new. There was a smaller tunnel to ventilate the old one. They didn't start from zero.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 02:51 PM   #1975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
* A5 will be phased with first one carriageway, and later the second, pending the construction of R52 on the Czech side.
A5 will be built that way:



From the current end at Schrick/Mistelbach it will be built as a dual carriageway to the junction Poysbrunn.

The remaining section will stay B7. They only build a single carriageway bypass for Drasenhofen.
B7 Poysbrunn - CZ border section will be upgraded to A5 when R52 on the Czech side is being built.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 04:58 PM   #1976
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Originally Posted by Tauernautobahn View Post
From the current end at Schrick/Mistelbach it will be built as a dual carriageway to the junction Poysbrunn.

The remaining section will stay B7. They only build a single carriageway bypass for Drasenhofen.
B7 Poysbrunn - CZ border section will be upgraded to A5 when R52 on the Czech side is being built.
Thanks! Is the plan to build everything shown on the map above during 2013-2016?
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 06:54 PM   #1977
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Tunnel boring costs are dropping every year.
Actually it is rather more affordable, but costs are not dropping. Especially increasing demands on safety regulations and new equipment make tunnel cost higher and higher.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 07:37 PM   #1978
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Actually it is rather more affordable, but costs are not dropping. Especially increasing demands on safety regulations and new equipment make tunnel cost higher and higher.
In some jurisdictions, increasing demands on safety regulations may make tunneling more expensive. However, TBMs are improving in capability/cost, especially as more TBMs are manufactured in China, which is reducing the cost of tunnel boring.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 09:44 PM   #1979
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Any numbers?
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:42 PM   #1980
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Any numbers?
My memory isn't clear enough to quote numbers. Last year, I was on a flight seated next to an engineer with Herrenknecht and he was happy to explain details about tunnel boring to someone who already knew what a tunnel boring machine is.
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