Downtown Miami Pictures

[FTL Beach Bum]

Originally Posted by CF221

oceanfront

Bayfront.

Sorry, pet peeve.

Originally Posted by CF221

Gosh... balconies everywhere...

Absolutely!

Why? Because we can, and they can be enjoyed year-round.

Who would want a condo in Miami that you couldn't step right out of and feel that warm breeze and smell that sweet, fresh air any day, anytime?

[I-275westcoastfl]

Originally Posted by Endeavor305

When Shaq first signed with the Heat and bought a house on Star Island, a buddy and I thought it would be a good idea to go visit. When we crossed the little bridge and got to the guard house, a black lady asked what the purpose of our visit was. We said we were there to give an estimate for some landscaping (which we made up). She just looked at us and said, "uh huh, yea right. Do all landscapers wear Heat jerseys to give estimates?" Doh!

I ended up telling her we just wanted to drive by the front of Shaq's house and she was cool after that. I don't think they can stop you though at that guard house actually unless you say something disturbing.

Man I didn't know you could go on that island, she let you right through!

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

Man I didn't know you could go on that island, she let you right through!

Those streets are public property that YOU, the taxpayer, paid for and maintain. As such, you have every right to go there if you want, regardless of how much the residents and/or guards may want you to believe otherwise.

I hate when people are intimidated to not exercise their rights when their only 'crime' is simple curiosity.

[Endeavor305]

Originally Posted by spellbound

Those streets are public property that YOU, the taxpayer, paid for and maintain. As such, you have every right to go there if you want, regardless of how much the residents and/or guards may want you to believe otherwise.

I hate when people are intimidated to not exercise their rights when their only 'crime' is simple curiosity.

Here Here! I say we all go make a group outing to star island!

[exMiami]

Originally Posted by QuantumX

August 7, 2005 (13) by QuantumX, on Flickr


watermark-31-DSC_6004 by N8Zim, on Flickr

Beautiful pictures, great to see the contrast.

[Aceventura]

Originally Posted by Endeavor305

Here Here! I say we all go make a group outing to star island!

We could meet at Monty's and walk over. Unless someone has a connect at the VFW.

[UMdev]

Originally Posted by CF221

^ Ugh... horible architecture... no street interaction.... nothing a "world class" city would have. How can Miami aspire to succeed when it doesn't even keep high standards for even the most valuable of its downtown, oceanfront properties? Gosh... balconies everywhere... and huge podiums, in huge quantities! I think I'ts becoming a nightmare.

This is just a knee jerk reaction without even looking at anything. From that picture you cant tell if the ground floors has retail or not so you cant say there is no street interaction when you cant see the streetscapes.

You can still have good street level interaction you just have to put liners on the ground floor. Who cares what happens on levels 2 -14 as you cant access those levels from the street. And why would you not want balconies?

[casamagda]

Originally Posted by Endeavor305

I don't think they can stop you though at that guard house actually unless you say something disturbing.

True, like Palm and Hibiscus they are public roads manned by Miami Beach Police, but they cannot deny you access.

[casamagda]

Originally Posted by CF221

How can Miami aspire to succeed when it doesn't even keep high standards for even the most valuable of its downtown, oceanfront properties?

Clearly, you have not really walked in the place you are posting about.

Of course, none of these buildings are oceanfront (or even bayfront), the buildings you are complaining about are

• on the west side of Roberto Burle-Max (Brazil) designed streetscape on Biscayne Boulevard.
• across the street from the Herzog-DeMureon (Switzerland) designed art museum
• two or three blocks from the Cesar Pelli (Argentina) Performing Arts Center

Further, no building can really be on the Bayfront, because planners require a 50 foot wide public baywalk.

If you live you life from looking at Internet pictures, you are missing out on a lot. Come on down to the area you are posting about, they are putting up the tents for a show in the park. I'll bet the production is closer to world class than it is to a nightmare.

[Endeavor305]

Originally Posted by casamagda

Clearly, you have not really walked in the place you are posting about.

Of course, none of these buildings are oceanfront (or even bayfront), the buildings you are complaining about are

• on the west side of Roberto Burle-Max (Brazil) designed streetscape on Biscayne Boulevard.
• across the street from the Herzog-DeMureon (Switzerland) designed art museum
• two or three blocks from the Cesar Pelli (Argentina) Performing Arts Center

Further, no building can really be on the Bayfront, because planners require a 50 foot wide public baywalk.

If you live you life from looking at Internet pictures, you are missing out on a lot. Come on down to the area you are posting about, they are putting up the tents for a show in the park. I'll bet the production is closer to world class than it is to a nightmare.

Owned! Nobody messes with Casa. Learn your facts before you bring it, boooyyy. Come back if you want more spanking from Casa.

[dave8721]

Some flickr pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30500768@N08/6824269569
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


http://www.flickr.com/photos/paomas1961/6829249149/
image hosted on flickr


http://www.flickr.com/photos/xigler/6853407445/
image hosted on flickr

[CF221]

Originally Posted by casamagda

Clearly, you have not really walked in the place you are posting about.

Of course, none of these buildings are oceanfront (or even bayfront), the buildings you are complaining about are

• on the west side of Roberto Burle-Max (Brazil) designed streetscape on Biscayne Boulevard.
• across the street from the Herzog-DeMureon (Switzerland) designed art museum
• two or three blocks from the Cesar Pelli (Argentina) Performing Arts Center

Further, no building can really be on the Bayfront, because planners require a 50 foot wide public baywalk.

If you live you life from looking at Internet pictures, you are missing out on a lot. Come on down to the area you are posting about, they are putting up the tents for a show in the park. I'll bet the production is closer to world class than it is to a nightmare.

Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

I've been around that area long enough to tell you it is homeless paradise after 10 pm... For being the center of a city with a metropolitan population of around 5 million it should be MUCH MUCH more crowded and active. Also... I like the buildings you mentioned, they have great architecture, but surely Pelli, Max, or DeMeuron did not design the numerous downtown skyscrapers that have nothing, and I mean NOTHING, at ground level with neighboring streets.

Two examples:







And that's right on 2nd Ave... one block away from the greatly designed streetscape by Burle Max... which by itself does very little to enhance this place when, while walking on it on late nights, you see veeeery few people walking by. Surely, putting bricks in the ground in very interesting patterns does not by itself make a city great. And I'm not arguing about how upscale this place might be for the very small part of the population that can afford to live there, but seriously, it seems nothing down here is done with foresight to building up a truly "world-class" city where people roam the streets en masse and the core is much more than beautiful skyscrapers with equally huge blank walls to the neighboring structures, be it metrorail or whatever.

Now, the places you mentioned may be very classy and built by some notable architects in the world... but Burle-Max, DeMureon, and Pelli are not the only architects in the universe, and the city center (downtown) is at some portions filled with skyscrapers that seem to have been built for people who for some weird ocular malfunction can only see from the 3rd or 4th floor upwards, cause there's nothing going on at street level. So although downtown may look very cool from afar (as it does) , it is certainly lacking in the "bustling city feeling" which Miami's many mayors have for long claimed to seek. So maybe they're doing something wrong?

[miami305]

Once you travel outside the country, then you do realize that we are lacking in a lot of areas...Miami still is far far far behind in regards to being "World-Class City" in regards to everything that you just mentioned...although 5.6 million is for the whole Miami Metro Area...not just Miami itself...so...

[CF221]

Yeah, I said that is the "Metropolitan" population

...and it is sad that the greatest "rush" people seem to get out of Miami's core is when they're driving right past it on the Dolphin Expressway on their way to the beach or I-96... Surely makes a postcard-perfect skyline going 70 mph with some good loud music in your car, but most people I know would give me a weird look if I were to suggest "how 'bout we go for a walk in Miami's super-urban, glitzy skyscraper-filled downtown?"

Maybe its because since I come from a much more centralized, urban society, I can notice these things... but it doesn't take a genius to see what we are failing at when it comes to urban planning and BASIC street-level architecture and urban interaction.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by CF221

...most people I know would give me a weird look if I were to suggest "how 'bout we go for a walk in Miami's super-urban, glitzy skyscraper-filled downtown?"

Maybe that is because they haven't been to downtown Miami in over 10 years. Let's give it another 10 years. How fast do expect the place to change? I enjoy walking around downtown Miami and will even more 10 years from now. And as far as ground level street interaction is concerned with the examples you cited, that is largely because that is what those people in those buildings want. They are privately owned high-rise condos for God's sake, and I would rather have those than no skyscrapers at all. This is Miami, where people from all over the world have a second and third home and don't want strangers hanging out in their front yard.

Brickell Citicentre will be very walkable and being right next to Brickell Village, it will help make all of Brickell more walkable. Then we will see what all else we get. The AAA is not that old. We just got the PAC and Opera House, and now a Museum is being built between them. New baseball stadium. Port Tunnel with the expansion of the Port of Miami. We have the largest passenger plane in the world landing here now.

I don't really care whether or not Miami is a world class city. It is better than it was before and will be better than it is now in all respects. In 2014, I will have lived in South Florida for 30 years. I've seen the stagnation and I've seen the phenomenal change. Guys, it simply does not happen to cities as fast as it is happening to Miami right now, and I'm one of those who appreciates what we have and what I know we will have because not much is happening in other American cities now. At least not the way they are here in Miami. I'm where I want to be right now and I'm very happy. If you're not, then go somewhere else and leave Miami alone, for God's sake. I get tired of people bashing this city for no good reason other than nothing's happening where they live right now.

This city has a lot more stunning angles than from SR-836. My favorite is from the Rickenbacker Causeway.

[CF221]

I'm not trying to bash Miami. This is the city where I live!!!... but it's called "constructive criticism!" And it bugs me that you would say that it's ok to have huge blank walls in the middle of downtown because it's a private enterprise and owners have a right to literally give a blank wall to the center of the city. If they wanted to buy and build right over Freedom Tower or cover it with a blank wall then you'd be ok with it? I'm talking about the public realm here, the heart of Miami, which aspires to be full of people, vibrant, an example of street-level commerce. And you're saying we should have no say in how our constructions are made? So let's just de-regulate zoning and arquitecture and leave the door open for huge 4-story podiums all around downtown. Surely there must be a better alternative than this, and I've seen MANY condos in Miami that are much better with street interaction at ground level than these examples I posted. I just believe it's senseless to even have to bring this up... I mean, its BASIC planning,and many people outside this city would think twice before adding a 4 story blank wall to their urban environment. I don't care how existentialist, modernist, minimalist, or functionalist you may be.. but a blank, 4-story piece of wall does not ignite good feelings in me and is certainly one part of Miami tourists wouldn't want to photograph (they would mostly photographn from the fifth-floor upwards, as I said).

As for the how fast do I expect change to happen question, I think it's going to change very fast, but hopefully planners and developers will be more conscious to their sorroundings and cooperate to give the city the urban look and feel it needs, both from ground level and upwards.

As for street interaction and vibrant streetscape, at least 8th street around Little Havana has a fast-growing "urban feel." But when you get to Downtown, unless there's a big event in the park, not many people are to be found for an area with such a large population.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by CF221

Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

Actually, he does and stated nothing but facts, so this really isn't a fair statement.

Originally Posted by CF221

Now, the places you mentioned may be very classy and built by some notable architects in the world... but Burle-Max, DeMureon, and Pelli are not the only architects in the universe, and the city center (downtown) is at some portions filled with skyscrapers that seem to have been built for people who for some weird ocular malfunction can only see from the 3rd or 4th floor upwards, cause there's nothing going on at street level. So although downtown may look very cool from afar (as it does) , it is certainly lacking in the "bustling city feeling" which Miami's many mayors have for long claimed to seek. So maybe they're doing something wrong?

I thought this is what Miami 21 was supposed to be about, and the Biscayne Wall was approved before we had Miami 21.

Originally Posted by CF221

I'm not trying to bash Miami. This is the city where I live!!!... but it's called "constructive criticism!"

Ok, I wasn't sure because you don't mention where you are from in your profile.

Originally Posted by CF221

And it bugs me that you would say that it's ok to have huge blank walls in the middle of downtown because it's a private enterprise and owners have a right to literally give a blank wall to the center of the city.

Sorry, but yes, I think it's okay to have some.

Originally Posted by CF221

If they wanted to buy and build right over Freedom Tower or cover it with a blank wall then you'd be ok with it?

No. Freedom Tower absolutely must be preserved.

Originally Posted by CF221

I'm talking about the public realm here, the heart of Miami, which aspires to be full of people, vibrant, an example of street-level commerce. And you're saying we should have no say in how our constructions are made? So let's just de-regulate zoning and arquitecture and leave the door open for huge 4-story podiums all around downtown. Surely there must be a better alternative than this, and I've seen MANY condos in Miami that are much better with street interaction at ground level than these examples I posted. I just believe it's senseless to even have to bring this up... I mean, its BASIC planning,and many people outside this city would think twice before adding a 4 story blank wall to their urban environment. I don't care how existentialist, modernist, minimalist, or functionalist you may be.. but a blank, 4-story piece of wall does not ignite good feelings in me and is certainly one part of Miami tourists wouldn't want to photograph (they would mostly photographn from the fifth-floor upwards, as I said).

This is why we have Miami 21 and why Brickell Citicentre is being designed the way it is because of those examples that you set. Lots of people don't like the way the Biscayne Wall was built. I simply prefer it to this.

Originally Posted by QuantumX

image hosted on flickr

August 7, 2005 (13) by QuantumX, on Flickr

Originally Posted by CF221

As for the how fast do I expect change to happen question, I think it's going to change very fast, but hopefully planners and developers will be more conscious to their sorroundings and cooperate to give the city the urban look and feel it needs, both from ground level and upwards.

As for street interaction and vibrant streetscape, at least 8th street around Little Havana has a fast-growing "urban feel." But when you get to Downtown, unless there's a big event in the park, not many people are to be found for an area with such a large population.

Yes, it is changing very fast by comparison.

Originally Posted by CF221

Maybe its because since I come from a much more centralized, urban society, I can notice these things... but it doesn't take a genius to see what we are failing at when it comes to urban planning and BASIC street-level architecture and urban interaction.

This is what threw me about where you are from because you don't put a location in your profile. You never heard of Miami 21?

[CF221]

Originally Posted by QuantumX

I thought this is what Miami 21 was supposed to be about, and the Biscayne Wall was approved before we had Miami 21.

...

Ok, I wasn't sure because you don't mention where you are from in your profile.

...

This is why we have Miami 21 and why Brickell Citicentre is being designed the way it is because of those examples that you set. Lots of people don't like the way the Biscayne Wall was built. I simply prefer it to this.

...

This is what threw me about where you are from because you don't put a location in your profile. You never heard of Miami 21?

Yeah, I support Miami 21 100%, but I think even the fact that those buildings were constructed before Miami 21 is not enough of a reason to build them that way. I mean, the United States has a history of planning and architecture which goes back hundreds of years (and also a history of experimenting with sprawl, etc, sadly) Maybe it's because of the "bubble" which took some time to burst. Either way, hopefully all new constructions will be put under quality control, because Miami deserves better quality in its construction!

Also, when I answered casamagda with: "clearly you don't know what you're talking about" I was referring to his statement about me not having been at the place which I was talking about, and leading my statements from "looking at internet pictures." Maybe I should just go into my options and put my current location, to clear everything up for future inquiries. (lol)

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by CF221

Yeah, I support Miami 21 100%, but I think even the fact that those buildings were constructed before Miami 21 is not enough of a reason to build them that way. I mean, the United States has a history of planning and architecture which goes back hundreds of years (and also a history of experimenting with sprawl, etc, sadly) Maybe it's because of the "bubble" which took some time to burst. Either way, hopefully all new constructions will be put under quality control, because Miami deserves better quality in its construction!

Probably because the city was so stagnant for so long they welcomed any kind of new development, not really knowing which projects would make it and which would not. I think Icon Brickell is another example of what you're talking about. For the location, it should have been something like Brickell Citicentre.

But those giant condos with their proximity to the water are where the money is and is another way we can attract people with money to invest in Miami, and I mean not in just a penthouse in a giant condo which isn't very inviting to people at street level. The more people we can draw here with enough money to be able to afford a penthouse in a giant condo, the more people who are likely to want to put a corporate headquarters here, seeing that we have a growing financial district and CBD. Now that we have enough of those, now we have Miami 21.

It's the same rationale I think behind many of us supporting the casino bill. Getting MWC developed and bringing more tourists with money to downtown Miami with a different kind a draw from what South Beach has to offer. It's about getting people with money to see what Miami has the potential to become, and thereby, investing in the city's future and creating more jobs and opportunities. I guess it's a chicken or the egg question. Which comes first, the egg or the chicken that lays the egg.

Originally Posted by CF221

Also, when I answered casamagda with: "clearly you don't know what you're talking about" I was referring to his statement about me not having been at the place which I was talking about, and leading my statements from "looking at internet pictures." Maybe I should just go into my options and put my current location, to clear everything up for future inquiries. (lol)

In the case of Casamagda, I would have separately quoted the particular statement I was responding to because that is what wasn't clear. And while youre "constructive criticisms" are appreciated, they are the kinds of criticisms I'm used to hearing from people who don't live here and haven't been here in at least 10 years. Saying that you live here makes your criticisms of the city more valid whether we think you are seeing the whole picture or not.

[casamagda]

Originally Posted by CF221

^ Ugh... horible architecture... no street interaction.... nothing a "world class" city would have. How can Miami aspire to succeed when it doesn't even keep high standards for even the most valuable of its downtown, oceanfront properties? Gosh... balconies everywhere... and huge podiums, in huge quantities! I think I'ts becoming a nightmare.

Great post. You have me convinced.

You are right...it's horrible.
It's a nightmare living and working downtown.
Horrible architecture.
I am going to move away before they build another waterfront museum.