daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 20th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #721
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Chuo Shinkansen has 4 stations between Shinagawa and Nagoya: Hashimoto, Kofu, ??? and Nakatsugawa. Tokaido Shinkansen has 10.

When, in 2027, Chuo Shinkansen shall open, what shall be the trip time Shinagawa-Nagoya inclusive of all 4 station stops?
chornedsnorkack está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 21st, 2013, 06:54 AM   #722
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,812
Likes (Received): 452

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Chuo Shinkansen has 4 stations between Shinagawa and Nagoya: Hashimoto, Kofu, ??? and Nakatsugawa. Tokaido Shinkansen has 10.

When, in 2027, Chuo Shinkansen shall open, what shall be the trip time Shinagawa-Nagoya inclusive of all 4 station stops?
The travel time for a nonstop Tokyo(Shinagawa)-Nagoya service via the JR Tokai-favored Minami Alps route is 40 minutes.

http://bizmakoto.jp/makoto/articles/...8/news047.html
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2013, 04:47 PM   #723
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
The travel time for a nonstop Tokyo(Shinagawa)-Nagoya service via the JR Tokai-favored Minami Alps route is 40 minutes.
Which is precisely why I asked.

Also, what is the maximum speed where maglev switches can handle a train on diverging path?
chornedsnorkack está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2013, 05:05 PM   #724
Erick Satoh
OnlyEasyDayWasYesterday
 
Erick Satoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Marília,SP / Nagoya JP
Posts: 101
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Satoh View Post
wow almost 3 hours, im going there definitely after my work shift, its raining since tuesday here plus i dont have a pro camera but i will post here some pics
thanks for the info
just got back, sorry impossible to take pics from a simple compact camera...
lot of dad's mom's and kids some tv crew too

but i can tell u, was the Z11 being transport
Erick Satoh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2013, 05:45 PM   #725
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,812
Likes (Received): 452

(just a couple hours old)
Passing through Ogaki:



With a Tarumi Railway railcar departing in the foreground at Higashi Ogaki
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2013, 06:46 PM   #726
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,812
Likes (Received): 452

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Which is precisely why I asked.

Also, what is the maximum speed where maglev switches can handle a train on diverging path?
I don't think there is such definitive information released yet by JR Tokai. There is one hypothetical schedule outlined in a 4 year old article by Nikkei. It considers an off-peak service of 4 non-stop services (every 15 minutes) and one all stops service/hour. The all stops service would take 70 minutes between Shinagawa and Nagoya.

I cannot find the maximum speed on the traverser switches which will be used. I assume they are low speed, consistent with conventional shinkansen operating practice (they will handle the local service pulling into the intermediate stations, which are already slowing down to stop).

http://kenplatz.nikkeibp.co.jp/artic...24/534916/?P=3
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2013, 11:25 PM   #727
Northridge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oslo
Posts: 640
Likes (Received): 72

E5 and E6 series. Pretty sleek trains if you ask me.
__________________

carlcox liked this post
Northridge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2013, 07:55 PM   #728
javimix19
Registered User
 
javimix19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Donostia-San Sebastián
Posts: 749
Likes (Received): 1328

Hi, today I have two questions :

- Why Shinkansen is the most succesfull HSR in the world? Is for the population density? Or because it is cheap? I'm very impressed with the success of the Shinkansen.

- Is the Hokoriku Shinkansen works already started? I read in english wikipedia that there is three alternatives and the works will not finish until 2025. It is that true? Why the works will last so many years?

P.D.- I have other question: How much it costs a trip in Tohaido Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka? (in US $ or in Euros) I don't understand the success of this line
javimix19 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2013, 11:12 PM   #729
asahi
Registered User
 
asahi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 584
Likes (Received): 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
- Why Shinkansen is the most succesfull HSR in the world? Is for the population density? Or because it is cheap? I'm very impressed with the success of the Shinkansen.
Is it really the most successful HSR in the world? It's successful for sure, but it would be hard to compare it with e.g. the Chinese HSR because the Japanese lines have been in service much longer.
Nevertheless, it transports big number of people on long distances in short time, hence its popularity, especially the Tokaido shinkansen.

Quote:
- Is the Hokoriku Shinkansen works already started? I read in english wikipedia that there is three alternatives and the works will not finish until 2025. It is that true? Why the works will last so many years?
The Hokuriku shinkansen's section to Tsuruga is almost done. Only a short section to connect it with the Tokaido shinkansen is being studied now. That's the 3 options you're mentioning. Planning and building anything in Japan is difficult, pricey and takes a lot of time. It's a densely populated, mountainous country, so it kind of complicates the whole process.

Quote:
P.D.- I have other question: How much it costs a trip in Tohaido Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka? (in US $ or in Euros) I don't understand the success of this line
You can always check it in JPY at www.hyperdia.com
Unreserved seat from Tokyo to Shin-Osaka costs 13,850¥, roughly 108€.
__________________

javimix19 liked this post
asahi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2013, 02:12 PM   #730
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
Hi, today I have two questions :

- Why Shinkansen is the most succesfull HSR in the world? Is for the population density? Or because it is cheap? I'm very impressed with the success of the Shinkansen.
Further to Asahi's reply, there are some other factors. The legacy railways in Japan were (are) narrow gauge and poor (curvy) alignments, and far from optimal in terms of providing intercity services. They were also destined to be run at capacity just providing local and regional services, hence the use of completely segregating long distance traffic to release as much capacity for this as possible.

After segregation there is also a holistic benefit, in that high frequency connectivity on the legacy lines is provided to the shinkansen stations, making high speed servies more attractive to more people.

Add in the Japanese habit of doing things almost as well as they can be done and you have a success story.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield

javimix19 liked this post
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2013, 05:47 PM   #731
sacto7654
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 796
Likes (Received): 283

Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
Hi, today I have two questions :

- Why Shinkansen is the most succesfull HSR in the world? Is for the population density? Or because it is cheap? I'm very impressed with the success of the Shinkansen.

- Is the Hokoriku Shinkansen works already started? I read in english wikipedia that there is three alternatives and the works will not finish until 2025. It is that true? Why the works will last so many years?

P.D.- I have other question: How much it costs a trip in Tohaido Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka? (in US $ or in Euros) I don't understand the success of this line
To answer your questions in order:

1. The Shinkansen--especially the Tokaidō/San'yō Shinkansen that connects the Tokyo/Nagoya/Kyoto/Osaka/Kobe/Okayama/Hiroshima/Tokushima/Hakata (Fukuoka) corridor and the Tōhoku Shinkansen that connects the Tokyo/Fukushima/Sendai/Morioka/Hachinohe/Aomori corridor--are enormously popular. Indeed, on the Tōhoku line, it's popular enough that all seats have to be reserved ahead before taking the train. Because it's under 2.5 hours one-way between Tokyo and Osaka on the Nozomi train, the result is a huge number of travelers on this part of the Tokaidō Shinkansen route, especially business travellers.

2. I believe the full Hokuriku Shinkansen route from Tokyo to Kanazawa will open March 2015. Work on extension beyond Kanazawa to Tsuruga has begun, but that won't be finished until 2025, 12 years from now. The extension to Tsuruga will take some time due to the need to build a brand-new tunnel (what may be called the Shin-Hokuriku Tunnel) between Fukui and Tsuruga, a tunnel that maybe one of the longest in Japan. I personally think from Tsuruga, the continuation of this Shinkansen route will parallel the JR West Josei Line, then the train terminates at an expanded Kyoto Station, where passengers can take local JR or Kintetsu trains to reach other parts of the Kansai region.

3. According to Hyperdia, the cost of a one way ticket between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka Stations is 13,550 yen (around US$139 as I type this) for the Hikari train (which is covered under the Japan Rail Pass) and 13,850 yen (around US$142 as I type this) for the Nozomi train (which is not covered under the Japan Rail Pass). The Nozomi train takes about 2.5 hours journey tme, and the Hikari train takes about 3 hours journey time (since it does make additional stops between Shin-Yokohama and Nagoya stations).
__________________

javimix19 liked this post
sacto7654 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #732
javimix19
Registered User
 
javimix19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Donostia-San Sebastián
Posts: 749
Likes (Received): 1328

Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Is it really the most successful HSR in the world? It's successful for sure, but it would be hard to compare it with e.g. the Chinese HSR because the Japanese lines have been in service much longer.
Ok, I know that Chinese High Speed Rail has more total passengers but in my opinion and I'm considering the data that I read on several web pages Shinkansen is the most succesfull HSR in the world . China has 1300 billion unhabitants and Japan 100 million.

Also if we compare Shinkansen for example with my country HSR (spanish AVE), Japanese Shinkansen wins I think in all their lines in passengers per year and the tickets in Spain have more or less the same price than in Japan.

(For example and unreserved ticket from HSR Madrid-Barcelona it costs 125 euros, around 16028 yens and the trip lasts 2h 30min.) but the salaries I think (I don't know sure) that are much higher in Japan that in Spain.
javimix19 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #733
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Is it really the most successful HSR in the world?
I would say yes. Name me one other HSR system where the trains run as frequent and dependable as in Japan. My personal experience: TGVs and ICEs aren't even in the same league compared to a N700, when it comes to ride comfort. In both the TGV and ICE I've experienced vibrations and resonances at various speeds, where the N700 was completely smooth. Also seat pitch is much better in the N700. The E5/E6 and N700A are supposed to be even better.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2013, 05:15 PM   #734
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,980
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
China has 1300 billion unhabitants and Japan 100 million.
lol
__________________

makita09 liked this post
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #735
quashlo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,835
Likes (Received): 3215

MHI, Tōshiba receive trackwork, E&M contract for Taiwan HSR Nangang extension
http://www.mhi.co.jp/en/news/story/130624en.html

Quote:
Tokyo, June 24, 2013 - Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. (MHI) and Toshiba Corporation have received a turnkey order from Taiwan High Speed Rail Corporation (THSRC) for its Nangang Extension Project in Taipei. The order calls for the two companies to provide trackwork and E&M (electrical and mechanical) systems for approximately 5 kilometers (km) of the 9.2km extension line to connect Taipei Station and the city's new Nangang Station, which will replace Taipei Station as the north terminus of the Taiwan High Speed Rail (THSR) system. The extension line is scheduled to go into operation in March 2016. The order, received with the cooperation from Mitsui & Co., Ltd. (Mitsui), is worth about 20 billion yen.

THSRC's Nangang Extension Project covers the provision of new facilities and equipment, to extend the THSR line from Taipei Station to Nangang Station, which is currently under construction in the northern sector of Taipei. MHI and Toshiba will install the trackwork and overhead electric power lines for the trains, and also design, supply and install E&M systems for signaling, communications, power supplies, operation management, etc.

MHI will be responsible for overall project management, provision of trackwork, signaling, overhead power line equipment, and systems for data transmission, telephone and operation monitoring cameras. Toshiba will be responsible for the provision of the train traffic control system - the THSR's command system - as well as the maintenance management information system, the system to supply power to trains and wayside equipment, the train radio system and passenger information systems.

THSR's trains currently travel the 345km between Taipei and Kaohsiung, Taiwan's two most important cities, in as short a time as 90 minutes. Since its launch in January 2007, over six and a half years of safe operation, the line has seen a steady increase in passengers and become an essential component of Taiwan's transportation network. With completion of the extension project, the THSR system is expected to play an even greater role in vitalizing Taiwan's economy.

The original order for the THSR project was placed in 2000, with a consortium consisting of seven Japanese companies, including MHI, Toshiba and Mitsui. MHI and Toshiba believe the team's track record in the project contributed to the award of the extension project. Going forward the two companies, applying their respective accumulated advanced technologies, knowhow and sophisticated system integration capability, will proactively conduct marketing activities to win high-speed railway projects planned in various countries and regions.
Japanese press release:
http://www.mhi.co.jp/news/story/130624206.html
__________________
San Francisco
Japan 2013; Japan 2011
: Tōkyō I, II, III (Kamakura), IV (Yokohama), V; Ōsaka I (+Kyōto +Kōbe), II (Kyōto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikkō
quashlo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2013, 10:30 PM   #736
asahi
Registered User
 
asahi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 584
Likes (Received): 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
I would say yes. Name me one other HSR system where the trains run as frequent and dependable as in Japan. My personal experience: TGVs and ICEs aren't even in the same league compared to a N700, when it comes to ride comfort. In both the TGV and ICE I've experienced vibrations and resonances at various speeds, where the N700 was completely smooth. Also seat pitch is much better in the N700. The E5/E6 and N700A are supposed to be even better.
I've taken the Shinkansen numerous times and I also think it's totally great. However, the question is, how do you measure if it's the MOST successful system? There are many factors:
- ticket price
- frequency
- reliability
- general maintenance level
- safety
- availability
etc.

One could argue that Shinkansen is better than AVE, 'cause it runs more frequently, but then Spain's population would have to triple to justify such frequency.

High speed system in all countries have its pros and cons and it's really hard to determine which one is the best, mainly because every country is different and generalising is not the best option.

Btw, the San'yo Shinkansen can be pretty shaky too. Mostly due to many tunnels, but even without that, from my experience, it's not as smooth a ride as the Tokaido Shinkansen.
asahi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2013, 04:51 AM   #737
mkill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 87
Likes (Received): 15

I personally prefer taking the ICE over the Shinkansen. The interior design is much nicer. The Shink really isn't that comfortable, it's just fast. On the tracks that have been newly built as high-speed corridors in Germany (a sad few, such as Cologne - Frankfurt and Berlin - Hannover) the ride is as smooth as the Shink.

Of course, Deutsche Bahn will never ever reach Japanese standards of operation and on-time performance... *sigh*
mkill no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2013, 05:01 AM   #738
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

It could also simply be that Tokaido doesn't run at 300 km/h. It runs at around 270 due to its many tight curves, if I remember correctly.

Comparing the CRH to the Shinkansen is a little bit like comparing apples and oranges.



日本(Shinkansen)
Pros
  • First high speed rail line in the world.
  • 40 years of operation
  • No fatalities
  • 10 billion riders carried.
  • Highest service frequency (10 per hour)
  • Ridiculous punctuality (To the second)
Cons
  • Oldest HSR line in service
  • Saturated - Cannot expand
  • ROW initial designed speed: 230km/h. Speeds are limited to 270km/h max.
  • Older technology (Ballasted Track) incurs exorbitantly high maintenance costs.

中國(CRH)
Pros
  • Length. China's network is larger than the rest of the world combined.
  • Designed speed is 380km/h (Operating speed limited to 300km/h); room for future growth.
  • Built within two years, one year ahead of schedule. (Beijing - Shanghai)
  • Relatively cheap compared to international standards
    CRH 380-series trainsets are highly optimized for high speed travel.
  • Large stations have significantly higher capacity.
  • Ridership on the Beijing - Shanghai PDL is projected to exceed ridership on the Tokaido Shinkansen.
  • China enjoys ridership in excess of 1 million per day.
Cons
  • Wenzhou. 40 dead.
  • Allegations of intellectual property theft
  • Train for the wealthy - most Chinese cannot afford it, and therefore does little to solve the country's transportation problems.
  • Internal corruption charges.
  • Internal charges of low quality construction

Both have very different strengths and weaknesses, and very little overlap.
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here

Last edited by Silver Swordsman; June 25th, 2013 at 08:05 AM.
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2013, 07:44 AM   #739
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,980
Likes (Received): 836

I assume you are talking about a specific line, because the entire Chinese HSR network was not built in 2 years.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2013, 08:21 AM   #740
asahi
Registered User
 
asahi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 584
Likes (Received): 189

Of course, I didn't want to compare the Shinkansen only with Chinese HSR. I personally think that considering the country's size and population density, Spain is doing more than great in connecting its cities with high speed trains. The AVE trains are also more comfortable than Shinkansen, but that's 'cause the idea of a high speed train in different in both countries. In Japan it's more like a high speed commuter train.
Anyway, such comparisons don't really make much sense though.
asahi no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium