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Old March 10th, 2015, 07:55 PM   #1501
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JR West developed the Nozomi 500 series bullet train in 1997 which set a world speed record of 300 kilometers per hour at that time
World speed record for what? The TGV Atlantique already set a world speed record of 515 km/h in 1990 and has been used in 300 km/h service since that same year.
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Old March 10th, 2015, 09:47 PM   #1502
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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
World speed record for what? The TGV Atlantique already set a world speed record of 515 km/h in 1990 and has been used in 300 km/h service since that same year.
It held the record for fastest point-to-point speed average speed in commercial operation. This boasted a average speed of 250.43km/h and a top speed of 300km/h in 1997 between Kokura and Hiroshima until 2005.
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Old March 10th, 2015, 10:56 PM   #1503
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What he said..

We are really within a Shinkansen buzz at the moment, first the Tokaido Line celebrated 50 years, now the Sanyo Line celebrates 40 years. Soon the the first part of the Hokuriku Line will open and next year the first part of the Hokkaido line will open as well.
It's really nice to see how much progress there have been with high speed rail in Japan, and it will continue for many years to come!!
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Old March 12th, 2015, 07:57 AM   #1504
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What was interesting about the San'yō line was the much lower track curvature compared to the Tokaidō line. Indeed, the lower track curvature of the San'yō line made it possible for faster trains like the 100 Series (230 km/h), 300 Series (270 km/h), 700 Series (285 km/h), and 500/N700/N700A Series (300 km/h).
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Old March 12th, 2015, 10:39 AM   #1505
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To me that shows progress. They found out the flaws of having "tight" turns on the Tokaido Shinkansen, and then compensated for it for the next line.
Though it's only a pair of turns on the Tokaido Shinkansen that are in the 2500 meter radius, the rest of them are capable to cope with speeds up to 300 km/h, but it's mostly the noise regulations that have hindered trains in the past to go faster.
We will see what happens once all the N700 have been modified to N700A standard and all other train sets that use the line have been decommissioned. When that happens then I bet that they start running at 300 km/h there as well
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Old March 12th, 2015, 01:05 PM   #1506
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On the (later built) Tohoku Shinkansen they upped the ante once again. The JR East's E5 and E6 are already running at 320 km/h with a potential for up to 360 km/h by 2020.
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Old March 12th, 2015, 04:49 PM   #1507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
To me that shows progress. They found out the flaws of having "tight" turns on the Tokaido Shinkansen, and then compensated for it for the next line.
Though it's only a pair of turns on the Tokaido Shinkansen that are in the 2500 meter radius, the rest of them are capable to cope with speeds up to 300 km/h, but it's mostly the noise regulations that have hindered trains in the past to go faster.
We will see what happens once all the N700 have been modified to N700A standard and all other train sets that use the line have been decommissioned. When that happens then I bet that they start running at 300 km/h there as well
Which turns are you talking about? Also, bear in mind that the tunnels on the Tokaido Shinkansen have a smaller diameter. Trains pass closer to each other, leading to more wind turbulence.
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Old March 12th, 2015, 07:21 PM   #1508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
To me that shows progress. They found out the flaws of having "tight" turns on the Tokaido Shinkansen, and then compensated for it for the next line.
Well, to be precise, curve radius wasn't a flaw of the original line. It was a product of the environment it was built in. The system was designed to run at a Max speed of 200km/h. This was a big risk as no one had really done this before. Straightening the curves would obviously enable higher speeds but it would also increase cost (and risk). they hardly could have envisioned trains running at 360km/h in the late 50s when the line was being planned.


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Though it's only a pair of turns on the Tokaido Shinkansen that are in the 2500 meter radius, the rest of them are capable to cope with speeds up to 300 km/h, but it's mostly the noise regulations that have hindered trains in the past to go faster.
We will see what happens once all the N700 have been modified to N700A standard and all other train sets that use the line have been decommissioned. When that happens then I bet that they start running at 300 km/h there as well
Perhaps. They will be running at 285km/h soon. It will be interesting to see whether or not they keep investing in the Tokaido or just put all the focus on the Chuo Line. That busy corridor has limited upgrade potential.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 06:09 AM   #1509
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I think the major reason why we haven't seen 300 km/h running east of Shin-Osaka Station on the Tokaidō line is the prevalence of the older 700 Series trainsets running in Hikari and Kodama service, which have a top speed of 285 km/h and do not have the ability to slightly "tilt" to allow for faster speed through turns. Once those start to be retired and all trains run N700 (upgraded to N700A standards) and N700A trainsets, I can see 300 km/h operations between Shizuoka and Toyohashi and Maibara and Kyoto on the Tokaidō line.

As for 360 km/h operations on the Tōhoku line, they'll have to wait until the E2 trainsets are retired. Once that happens and Tōhoku line operations switch completely to the E5, H5 and E6 trainsets, we will likely see a push to 360 km/h speeds on portions of the line between Utsunomiya and Morioka Stations. (It'll be quite a sight to see a combined E5/E6 trainset blasting by at 360 km/h.)
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Old March 13th, 2015, 12:55 PM   #1510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Which turns are you talking about? Also, bear in mind that the tunnels on the Tokaido Shinkansen have a smaller diameter. Trains pass closer to each other, leading to more wind turbulence.
I don't have the exact location for them, but there are a few turns that have limited the speed for all trains (up to the N700) to 255 km/h where as they were allowed to run at 270 km/h rest of the way (except for in city centres near major stations). The N700 fixed that problem with a bit of tilt to raise the speed through those turns to 270 km/h.
And starting next week we will even see 285 km/h on one service/hour. And there are even long term goals of raising the speed on the whole line to 300 km/h, and even more on the stretch between Maibara and Kyoto, where they are eyeing 330 km/h. But those plans are most likely on hold until all the 700 series trains are gone from the Tokaido Shinkansen.
And the reason for that is that the 700 series is: slower, have lower acceleration and makes more noise at speed, compared to the N700.

Yes I know that the tunnels have a smaller diameter on Shinkansen Lines, but I'm pretty sure that the diameters of the newer lines aren't that much larger than the Tokaido Shinkansen, since making a larger tunnel means more cost, and if the size of the Tokaido Shinkansen is enough, why make them bigger?

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Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
Well, to be precise, curve radius wasn't a flaw of the original line. It was a product of the environment it was built in. The system was designed to run at a Max speed of 200km/h. This was a big risk as no one had really done this before. Straightening the curves would obviously enable higher speeds but it would also increase cost (and risk). they hardly could have envisioned trains running at 360km/h in the late 50s when the line was being planned.
True, but they are one of the major problems to solving the increase in speed, on those sections. They reduced the travel time about 5 minutes thanks to not having to slow down for those sections and a little boost in acceleration, so there was time to save there.
About the environment that it's built in, then I'm sure that they have made massive improvements in terms of lowering the noise of the trains as they pass the lived up areas to within specified limits. Sure building the line further out in the countryside will have helped to increase the speed, but they you would have less people to travel with the line. But I bet that's one of the reasons why the Chuo Shinkansen was planned in the first place, a higher speed line between Tokyo and Osaka, without the same limitations as the Tokaido Shinkansen.

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Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
Perhaps. They will be running at 285km/h soon. It will be interesting to see whether or not they keep investing in the Tokaido or just put all the focus on the Chuo Line. That busy corridor has limited upgrade potential.
There are plans to do major work on the Tokaido Shinkansen over the coming years, Quashlo posted a list of what needed to be done some time ago, and some parts of those things are pretty major, relining some tunnels and other things. So they will keep spending money on the line for quite some time in the future, even if they are building the Chuo Shinkansen at the time.
And in terms of speed then they are aiming for 300 km/h in the future, and even 330 km/h on some stretches.

Speaking of speed, then when JR West was designing the 500 series then the goal with that was to run at 320 km/h on the Sanyo Shinkansen with that train set, but the design (even if some thinks it's the best looking trains) was flawed since it produced way too much noise to be able to run at those speeds. The pointy nose, small and cylindrical cross-section, makes a lot larger tunnel boom phenomenon than the following 700 series at the same speeds, which were then improved with the introduction of the N700 series. So in terms of speed then there might be space for speed increases to the Sanyo Shinkansen once most of the services are run by N700 trains.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 01:29 PM   #1511
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And in terms of speed then they are aiming for 300 km/h in the future, and even 330 km/h on some stretches.
We know the N700/N700A is capable of 330 km/h, but can it stay within the required noise limits? After all, the only reason for the extremely long nose section of the E5 and E6 is noise limits.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 03:37 PM   #1512
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I do think JR Central and JR West wants to eventually push the speed on the Tokaidō and San'yō Shinkansen to a maximum of 320 km/h, the same current top speed as the Tōhoku Shinkansen between Utsunomiya and Morioka Stations.

Interestingly, this could happen first on the San'yō line, since the older 700 Series trainsets in Hikari service don't run west of Okayama, the former Hikari Rail Star 700 Series trainsets are going to be retired within the next few years, and the 500 Series trainsets will likely be retired by 2016. This will leave only the 16-car N700/N700A and 8-car N700-8000 trainsets on the San'yō line, and that will make it possible to bump up the speed to 320 km/h. I can't wait for YouTube videos of trains blasting by at 320 km/h at Higashi-Hiroshima Station.

Bumping the speed up on the Tokaidō line is going to be tricker, though. There are still a lot of older 700 Series trainsets in Hikari and Kodama service between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka, and that's why for traffic flow reasons the N700/N700A are limited to a top speed of 270 km/h between Shizuoka and Toyohashi and Maibara to Kyoto. Once the 700 Series trainsets retire and are replaced by N700 trainsets, the speed bump up to 300 km/h on the stretches of Tokaidō line I mentioned could happen fairly quickly, and eventually to 320 km/h.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #1513
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Street View inside the E7/W7 unit: https://goo.gl/maps/JcG3h
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Old March 13th, 2015, 05:44 PM   #1514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
We know the N700/N700A is capable of 330 km/h, but can it stay within the required noise limits? After all, the only reason for the extremely long nose section of the E5 and E6 is noise limits.
The reason for the long nose on the E5 and E6 is to keep the noise down when going at that speed through tunnels. On the Tokaido Shinkansen then the section they are eyeing on for 330 km/h is between Maibara and Kyoto, a section without any tunnels, at least until you get near Kyoto. And those won't be any trouble since the trains will have to start slowing down by then to be able to stop at Kyoto station.
Hence the short nose section of the N700 isn't a problem to be able to run at those speeds.

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Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
I do think JR Central and JR West wants to eventually push the speed on the Tokaidō and San'yō Shinkansen to a maximum of 320 km/h, the same current top speed as the Tōhoku Shinkansen between Utsunomiya and Morioka Stations.
I can see that, especially after the Chuo Shinkansen opens, to be able to put even more pressure on airlines to increase the number of passengers between Tokyo and Hakata on Shinkansen.
The trouble is though the number of tunnels on the line, which could mean that they have to introduce some new train to be able to run at those speeds without creating to much noise when going through them. But then again, something like the E5 would most likely work fine.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 06:11 PM   #1515
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Interestingly, this could happen first on the San'yō line
...
This will leave only the 16-car N700/N700A and 8-car N700-8000 trainsets on the San'yō line, and that will make it possible to bump up the speed to 320 km/h.
It seems the JR Kyushu 800 sets still go as far as Osaka on some Sakura services. That model only has a 285 km/h top speed.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 06:41 PM   #1516
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Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
I do think JR Central and JR West wants to eventually push the speed on the Tokaidō and San'yō Shinkansen to a maximum of 320 km/h, the same current top speed as the Tōhoku Shinkansen between Utsunomiya and Morioka Stations.

Interestingly, this could happen first on the San'yō line, since the older 700 Series trainsets in Hikari service don't run west of Okayama, the former Hikari Rail Star 700 Series trainsets are going to be retired within the next few years, and the 500 Series trainsets will likely be retired by 2016. This will leave only the 16-car N700/N700A and 8-car N700-8000 trainsets on the San'yō line, and that will make it possible to bump up the speed to 320 km/h. I can't wait for YouTube videos of trains blasting by at 320 km/h at Higashi-Hiroshima Station.

Bumping the speed up on the Tokaidō line is going to be tricker, though. There are still a lot of older 700 Series trainsets in Hikari and Kodama service between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka, and that's why for traffic flow reasons the N700/N700A are limited to a top speed of 270 km/h between Shizuoka and Toyohashi and Maibara to Kyoto. Once the 700 Series trainsets retire and are replaced by N700 trainsets, the speed bump up to 300 km/h on the stretches of Tokaidō line I mentioned could happen fairly quickly, and eventually to 320 km/h.
It will be sad to see the 700 series go. I'll miss the compartments on the Rail Stars. Those were unique and quite comfortable-looking.

There appears to be some sort of play-room in one of the cars on the V-series 500-trains. What is the story behind that?

Also, are there any pictures of the N700 multi-use compartment in Car 11?

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Originally Posted by loefet View Post
The reason for the long nose on the E5 and E6 is to keep the noise down when going at that speed through tunnels. On the Tokaido Shinkansen then the section they are eyeing on for 330 km/h is between Maibara and Kyoto, a section without any tunnels, at least until you get near Kyoto. And those won't be any trouble since the trains will have to start slowing down by then to be able to stop at Kyoto station.
Hence the short nose section of the N700 isn't a problem to be able to run at those speeds.

I can see that, especially after the Chuo Shinkansen opens, to be able to put even more pressure on airlines to increase the number of passengers between Tokyo and Hakata on Shinkansen.
The trouble is though the number of tunnels on the line, which could mean that they have to introduce some new train to be able to run at those speeds without creating to much noise when going through them. But then again, something like the E5 would most likely work fine.
It would certainly be interesting to see the Tokaido/Sanyo equivalent of the E5. It would probably be the first time since the JNR days of the 0/100/200 that there were similar trains on either side of Tokyo.

(Rail Wars would certainly be happy.)

Looking further into the future, is it likely that we'll see further speed increases on existing lines (400+kph)? If so, what might the rolling stock look like?

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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
It seems the JR Kyushu 800 sets still go as far as Osaka on some Sakura services. That model only has a 285 km/h top speed.
How interesting! Are there any pictures of the 800 series on the Sanyo? I would like to see some shots of them next to the 700 series, especially the Rail Star. (part of me wishes they would have run further East at some point )

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Street View inside the E7/W7 unit: https://goo.gl/maps/JcG3h
Great! But seriously? It seems that all they have is the Gran Class. What is the purpose of this? It's also attached some near Nippori.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 06:53 PM   #1517
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Whole train, just move the mouse following the arrows
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Old March 13th, 2015, 06:58 PM   #1518
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I wonder what impact will hyper-loop have on high speed rail in next decade.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #1519
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Indeed. Here's the standard class in case you cannot find it.

https://www.google.co.jp/maps/@35.74...jAxtWQ!2e0!3e2

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I wonder what impact will hyper-loop have on high speed rail in next decade.
For the majority of people who don't want to be inside a steel coffin travelling at mindnumbingly fast speeds, I doubt that the hyperloop will affect them much. I, personally, do not like the proposal at all.

Last edited by Svartmetall; March 13th, 2015 at 07:06 PM.
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Old March 13th, 2015, 11:15 PM   #1520
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The 800 series are still only used on the Kyushu Shinkansen. They were tested in 2011 on the Sanyo Shinkansen, but only up to Shin-Shimonoseki Station. That test was not continued, right now only the N700 R and S sets are used on the through services from the Kyushu to the Sanyo Shinkansen.


And the 800 series doesn't have to go onto the Sanyo to meet the 700 series, they can be seen next to each other in Hakata Station. Especially the RailStar's as the JR Central 700s don't reach Hakata that often anymore now most Tokaido Nozomi services are run by the N700.




http://blog.livedoor.jp/rocksoranbusi/tag/800%E7%B3%BB
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