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Old March 14th, 2015, 12:45 AM   #1521
Sr.Horn
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Congratulations Japan!

At 6 in the morning (22:00 CET) the first Kagayaki Shinkansen leaves Kanazawa bound for Tokyo.

And at 6:15 from Tokyo, the first Kagayaki train for Kanazawa.






http://wilsonjj.me/jptv/

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Old March 14th, 2015, 12:53 AM   #1522
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Has been a while since construction start, but finally running.

Omedetou Gozaimasu.
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Old March 14th, 2015, 04:33 AM   #1523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiotrG View Post
Has been a while since construction start, but finally running.

Omedetou Gozaimasu.
I believe work started on the line in 1999 and finally opens today. Particularly time consuming was the number of long tunnels needed to be built between Nagano and Itoigawa Stations. They're already well on their way with the construction work between Kanazawa and Fukui and there is some talk that could be finished by 2020, since they only need to build one set of tunnels through a set of hills between Kanazawa and Fukui.
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Old March 14th, 2015, 05:48 AM   #1524
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北陸新幹線へようこそ!

Welcome, Hokuriku Shinkansen!


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This gold thing on the right is a motorbike helmet?!?
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Old March 14th, 2015, 12:21 PM   #1525
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Looking good!!
The Hokuriku region is really going to get a massive upswing with the arrival of the Shinkansen. It's a region that I really want to visit, and now it's way easier than before.
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Old March 14th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #1526
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So how long do the fastest Kagayaki trains take between Tokyo and Kanazawa?
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Old March 14th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #1527
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So how long do the fastest Kagayaki trains take between Tokyo and Kanazawa?
Around 2.5 hours for Kagayaki between Tokyo and Kanazawa.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 03:28 PM   #1528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The 800 series are still only used on the Kyushu Shinkansen.
You're right. I got a bit confused by a text claiming the 800-series is also used on some Sakura services, which is a service between Shin Osaka and Kagoshima-Chūō. Turns out that the 800-series is being used for some Sakura services, but only on services that terminate at Hakata. Continuing further would have been strange as the 800 officially has a top speed of 260 km/h (but is capable of 285 km/h).
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Old March 15th, 2015, 05:22 PM   #1529
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We've been waiting. Hokuriku shinkansen Toyama ver.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 06:26 PM   #1530
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I believe that the 800 Series trainset operates Tsubame all-stops and Sakura limited-stop services on the Kyushu Shinkansen line between Hakata and Kagoshima-Chūō Stations only. That's why the N700-8000 trainsets that run on the Kyushu line are limited to a top speed of 260 km/h (161 mph), unlike their running on the San'yō line, where they can travel as fast as 300 km/h.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 08:08 PM   #1531
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I thought that the Kyushu Shinkansen itself was limited to 260 kph.

The Hokuriku is certainly slower than the Tohoku (what's the top speed on the E/W7, anyway?), for reasons I'm not sure of.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 09:59 AM   #1532
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As far as I know all new Shinkansen sections are built for a design speed of 260 km/h and paid for by the government. If an operator wants to operate at a higher speed he has to come up with the funds for the required changes himself. These changes are usually limited to extra noise prevention measures, but may also include larger tunnels and possibly larger curve radii.

Now the Kyushu and the Hokuriku Shinkansen both include several steep grades, making it nearly impossible on some stretches to even get near the 260 km/h. The 800, E7 and W7 series were optimised for this, hence their lower top speed. The N700-7000/8000 overcome the problem by shear power, having all axles driven.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 02:06 PM   #1533
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Not all. The front and rear cars are not motorised.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 02:36 PM   #1534
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If you mean the N700, that only applies to the 16 car consists, the 8 car consists have all axles driven. Check out the power ratings: 16 car (2T14M) 14x4x305=17080kW, 8 car (8M) 8x4x305=9760kW.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 04:40 PM   #1535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
As far as I know all new Shinkansen sections are built for a design speed of 260 km/h and paid for by the government. If an operator wants to operate at a higher speed he has to come up with the funds for the required changes himself. These changes are usually limited to extra noise prevention measures, but may also include larger tunnels and possibly larger curve radii.
By keeping the speed pretty low then they could keep the cost down to a minimum, by using steeper grades and tighter turns, which means keeping tunnelling costs down by making it easier to go around or over geographic features than tunnelling straight through if you want more speed.
But then again, the section between Morioka and Shin-Aomori is also "just" 260 km/h, but I bet that they will upgrade that section to 320 km/h once they start running to Hokkaido.
Apart from the latest section of the Tohoku Shinkansen which is a vital section for the future line between Tokyo and Sapporo, then most of these lines are mostly peripheral in nature, and won't be the main linkage between massive metropolitan areas (such as the Tokadio, Chuo and Sanyo Shinkansen lines). Which makes it not as important to keep the speed to a maximum.
The Hokuriku Shinkansen is there to ferry people between Tokyo and the Hokuriku region, and later from Osaka to the Hokuriku region once the line is complete, it won't be a main line between Tokyo and Osaka. Which means that if the speed in quick enough to be competitive between these markets compared to private cars and airplanes, then it won't matter how long it will take to travel the whole line.

Also, I don't think that they will increase the tunnel diameter if someone wants more speed. They are most likely sticking with their standard size on all projects, to be able to reuse TBMs without having to modify them between projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Now the Kyushu and the Hokuriku Shinkansen both include several steep grades, making it nearly impossible on some stretches to even get near the 260 km/h. The 800, E7 and W7 series were optimised for this, hence their lower top speed.
All of those trains have a higher design speed than 260 km/h, but since they are all bound to their respective line then they won't reach their designed top speed.
The 800 series is designed to run at a maximum of 285 km/h, my guess is that they did it that way, so that it could keep up with the 700 series (and shortened 500 series) if it were to run them on parts of the Sanyo Line, which haven't happened outside a few test runs.
The E7/W7 trains have a top speed of 275 km/h, which they are allowed to reach on the Tohoku Shinkansen, but I can't see where they will do that, since on the section between Tokyo and Omiya where they share the track, the speed limit is way lower than that. Are there any E7/W7 services on the Tohoku Shinkansen north of Omiya?
Speaking of speed limits, does anyone know what the speed limit between Omiya and Takasaki, is it 240 km/h as the rest of the Joetsu Shinkansen, or are they allowed to run at 260 km/h there?
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Old March 16th, 2015, 05:37 PM   #1536
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Originally Posted by loefet View Post
All of those trains have a higher design speed than 260 km/h, but since they are all bound to their respective line then they won't reach their designed top speed.
I don't know how they do it in Japan, but in Europe it is the rule that all trains are always tested at 110% of their certified speed. Not only that, but there usually is massive headroom, because the rail industry is pretty conservative: A bog standard ES64U4, certified for 230 km/h thus tested at 253 km/h, reached 357 km/h.

The Japanese seem to have the habit to start 'slow' and once the trains are proven in use, they start finding out where the limits are. Also test trains and prototypes are still common in Japan, unlike Europe where lots of train go into series production almost immediately, with all kinds of problems as a result.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 06:45 PM   #1537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
I don't know how they do it in Japan, but in Europe it is the rule that all trains are always tested at 110% of their certified speed. Not only that, but there usually is massive headroom, because the rail industry is pretty conservative: A bog standard ES64U4, certified for 230 km/h thus tested at 253 km/h, reached 357 km/h.

The Japanese seem to have the habit to start 'slow' and once the trains are proven in use, they start finding out where the limits are. Also test trains and prototypes are still common in Japan, unlike Europe where lots of train go into series production almost immediately, with all kinds of problems as a result.
That could be one of the reasons, but then again the E7/W7 trains are allowed to run at 275 km/h (the same as their design speed) on the Tohoku Shinkansen.
It could also be a case of that they design a train for a certain speed (Design speed), meaning that they aim for that speed when they are designing the trains. But once they start testing it then they discover that it's not feasible to run at those speeds due to excessive noise, wear or other reason, and they put a maximum speed for the train to live up to the expectations (or in some cases then it's the line itself that sets the limits).
Some examples of that is:
E2 and E3 are designed for 315 km/h, but only does 275 km/h (too much tunnel boom perhaps, especially if you compare them to the E5/E6 which have a completely different profile to counteract the problem).
500-series was designed for 320 km/h but got capped at 300 km/h on the Sanyo Shinkansen, too much noise.
N700, they are limited by the lines that they run on, but that may change once all are up to N700A standard and they are the only type of train running on the Tokaido Shinkansen, then they will be more free in terms of speed, as we discussed before.

While speaking of this then I remembered someone posting something about top speed certification in the Japan Maglev thread some time ago, and a quick search gave me this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
They need to since JR has an internal safety cap of 25% of top speed. So to enable to run at 500Km/h commercial speed, they need to test the train if it can reach 667Km/h for internal certification.
If this is the case then it's definitely not the test speed, don't know if there is a source for this though, but it seems correct, even if it just were 10% then it's not enough difference between Design and Maximum Speeds in most cases.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 07:41 PM   #1538
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Remember, the N700/N700A have a variant of that "duckbill" nose to reduce the noise of the train coming out of tunnels. This is why I think once the original 700 Series trains--including the Hikari Rail Star trainsets--are retired by 2017-2018, you will likely see higher speeds on the Tokaidō and San'yō Shinkansen lines. My guess: 320 km/h on the San'yō line, and 300 km/h on the Tokaidō line between Shizuoka and Toyohashi Stations and between Maibara and Kyoto Stations.
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Old March 16th, 2015, 07:58 PM   #1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
Remember, the N700/N700A have a variant of that "duckbill" nose to reduce the noise of the train coming out of tunnels. This is why I think once the original 700 Series trains--including the Hikari Rail Star trainsets--are retired by 2017-2018, you will likely see higher speeds on the Tokaidō and San'yō Shinkansen lines. My guess: 320 km/h on the San'yō line, and 300 km/h on the Tokaidō line between Shizuoka and Toyohashi Stations and between Maibara and Kyoto Stations.
What about the rest of the Tokaido Shinkansen? Why won't it also be accelerated?
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Old March 16th, 2015, 07:58 PM   #1540
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I'd seen the number 25% before as a safety in Japan. Whether that means trains are capable of traveling 25% faster or that they cruise at 25% slower than theoretical max j don't know. I do know that they are very conservative.

It is not just for safety though. A big part is scheduling. Trains aren't late. They just aren't allowed to be. In order to achieve that a train has to be able to make up lost time. So they run trains intentionally slower.
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